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Old 01-27-2014, 08:36 PM   #101
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

Heck, I watched the whole women's game yesterday... and I enjoyed that a whole heck of a lot better than watching the men play.

Never been to a woman's game.. but I am going Thursday Night. They have a heck of a team.
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Old 01-27-2014, 08:38 PM   #102
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

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Originally Posted by Cockhornleghorn View Post
I don't want this to come across as exceedingly arrogant, but I know I'm right. I've been to virtually every Carolina home game in the last 32 seasons and Frank WILL turn it around. We'll win a few more games next year and then have a break out season the following year. Please refer back to this post 2 years from now.
Refer back to this post after the SEC tourney, I agree 100%, you can see as Thornwell becomes more comfortable as an aggressive scorer, the team has less "looking at each other to figure out where they are suppose to be on the floor" moments because they know the offense/defense,they learn to pass the ball to teammates where the teammate has the most advantageous position to score and feed the hot hand.
Williams and Thornwell can make their own offense, as the others learn to feed them and feed off them the basket should open up a little more for the big men creating defensive energy on with made baskets. I hope as the team learns the offense and keeps an offensive flow on a consistent basis the refs will not be so whistle happy on Coach Martin's young men.
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Old 01-27-2014, 08:44 PM   #103
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

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Originally Posted by Mt. Lattimore View Post
Not really.

This fanbase is divided.

People really don't like Martin....at all.

What is not to like, an ex inner city high school coach/teacher who has a huge heart and a passion for helping others. Who are these people besides yourself you are referring to and why do you not like him?
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Old 01-27-2014, 08:53 PM   #104
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

I think probably 80% or so think Martin is the right coach.. Don't get me wrong, I think Hyman totally effed up when he hired Horn (over Marshall)... and I blame Horn for this mess.

Did I think we would still be this bad in year 2 under Martin when he was hired? No, but I also did not think we would have to totally start over in year 2 with pretty much all freshman
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Old 01-27-2014, 08:54 PM   #105
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

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Let what go? I not a bring Marshall in guy, I said his background, program builder, is what was and is needed.

IMO under odom the fans were pretty united for the most part.
No. There was great and spirited debate among two distinct sides over Odom's fate. Some agreed his war chest was enough while others wanted a different direction. Neither side got what we wanted in the end, though the "get a younger coach" crowd were sure given an example of "be careful what you wish for."

I'm sure there are a bunch of threads archived here on Cockytalk on that very subject.
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Old 01-27-2014, 09:02 PM   #106
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

Frank Martin was a winner in the Big 12 when it was arguably the best overall conference a few years back with Oklahoma, Texas, of course KU being the powerhouse. Outside of Kentucky and the occaisional year Florida shows up.....the SEC just isn't a basketball conference. Martin is a winner and can win.....he doesn't buy talent like Calipari....give him time!
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Old 01-27-2014, 09:04 PM   #107
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

I have 3 questions:
1. Would Marshall have recruited better players than Martin up to this point.
2. If Marshall had exactly the same team that we have now, what would our record be this year compared to what it is now.
3. Is it Martin's fault that Johnson broke his foot.
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Old 01-27-2014, 09:35 PM   #108
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

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Originally Posted by gAmkok View Post
No. There was great and spirited debate among two distinct sides over Odom's fate. Some agreed his war chest was enough while others wanted a different direction. Neither side got what we wanted in the end, though the "get a younger coach" crowd were sure given an example of "be careful what you wish for."

I'm sure there are a bunch of threads archived here on Cockytalk on that very subject.
That was at the end of his time. During the middle fans were behind him.
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Old 01-27-2014, 09:37 PM   #109
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

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Frank Martin was a winner in the Big 12 when it was arguably the best overall conference a few years back with Oklahoma, Texas, of course KU being the powerhouse. Outside of Kentucky and the occaisional year Florida shows up.....the SEC just isn't a basketball conference. Martin is a winner and can win.....he doesn't buy talent like Calipari....give him time!
Yes he won at kstate, after being handed a great team from Huggins. I hope he wins and wins big, but I just don't think he is a program builder.
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Old 01-27-2014, 11:27 PM   #110
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

Just because Marshall is winning against weak opponents in the Missouri Valley Conference doesn't mean he would succeed in the SEC. I think he would do well, but not sure if better than Fmart at this time.
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Old 01-28-2014, 11:41 AM   #111
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

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Just because Marshall is winning against weak opponents in the Missouri Valley Conference doesn't mean he would succeed in the SEC. I think he would do well, but not sure if better than Fmart at this time.
See I would agree, but he took Winthrop to the NCAA tournament plenty of times, almost beat a really good Tennessee and beat a really good Notre Dame team in the first round. With Wichita State they went to the FINAL FOUR last year. You know, the NAME SAKE of the national championship tournament in college basketball? It took him a little time, but come on both of those schools have more wins in the ncaa tourney the past 10 years than we have in the past 40 years
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Old 01-28-2014, 12:00 PM   #112
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

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I mean we can't say that Marshall would have turned things around here. He has impressed me at Wichita State but we didn't have the luxury of knowing what he would accomplish at Wichita State. All we had to go on was his record at Winthrop which included no NCAA tournament wins. Knowing what we knew then Marshall wouldn't have been my top choice. Horn wasn't up there either though. It is what it is and now we have Frank, which is a big time hire for our program. I see progress, but you're right. He's not outrecruiting the major schools around us, so it's going to take time to build this program up.
Yes we can. It would have taken time - just like Martin - but he gets very good players and that rebuilding stage would have come and went. Hiring Horn and not Marshall was the biggest fail in the last Decade for USC.
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Old 01-28-2014, 12:04 PM   #113
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

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Ahh you're right... so he had one win. Still not much of a difference from what Horn accomplished in my opinion. I still didn't like the idea of hiring him then. I just wish we had known then what we know now.
I hope you realize that Marshall was in the Final Four last year right and lost by 4 to the NCAA Champions? I guess next your gonna tell me Marshall had nothing to do with that right.

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Old 01-28-2014, 12:14 PM   #114
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

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Originally Posted by Mt. Lattimore View Post
Not really.

This fanbase is divided.

People really don't like Martin....at all.
Really based on what? Martin has no fault in this Programs failure to make a good Basketball hire in the past. It's certainly not his fault we are bad right now in Basketball. Once again we missed the boat when we had the opportunity to hire a good Coach and now we are having to live with the rebuilding. Good news is Frank is a good Coach and has a plan but it will take minimum 2 more years.
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Old 01-28-2014, 12:15 PM   #115
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

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Just because Marshall is winning against weak opponents in the Missouri Valley Conference doesn't mean he would succeed in the SEC. I think he would do well, but not sure if better than Fmart at this time.
You have no clue. I guess he made it to the Final Four by beating weak Teams. I guess this year is just the same. I would bet this years Marshall Team would compete for the SEC Title if not win it.
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Old 01-28-2014, 12:20 PM   #116
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

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Originally Posted by U-Dub Gamecock View Post
Heck, I watched the whole women's game yesterday... and I enjoyed that a whole heck of a lot better than watching the men play.

Never been to a woman's game.. but I am going Thursday Night. They have a heck of a team.
The Women are the real deal. I actually think we are one of few teams that actually match up well to UConn. Now that doesn't mean we will beat them if we go head to head but if they hit their foul shots and take care of the ball we can certainly play with them. UConn abuses people down low but I think Coates will be the answer down low.
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Old 01-28-2014, 12:26 PM   #117
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

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You have no clue. I guess he made it to the Final Four by beating weak Teams. I guess this year is just the same. I would bet this years Marshall Team would compete for the SEC Title if not win it.
Are you saying this year's team, coached by Gregg Marshall, would win the SEC title?? You're kidding right? With the youth and inexperience of our squad, Coach K would be pulling his hair out.

Now, if you're trying to argue that Marshall would have built the team over the years (if hired prior to Darrin Horn) to where we might now be competing for a league championship, then that's debatable. That being said, give Coach Martin six to seven years and let's revisit the issue.
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Old 01-28-2014, 12:54 PM   #118
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

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I have 3 questions:
1. Would Marshall have recruited better players than Martin up to this point.
2. If Marshall had exactly the same team that we have now, what would our record be this year compared to what it is now.
3. Is it Martin's fault that Johnson broke his foot.
1. Yes
2. Yes. We would not be 0-6 or whatever in the SEC
3. No.

Next
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Old 01-28-2014, 01:30 PM   #119
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

I want us to do well but I just don't see it happening anytime soon.. We have regressed this season so far which I thought would be impossible after last year
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Old 01-28-2014, 06:55 PM   #120
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

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Yes we can. It would have taken time - just like Martin - but he gets very good players and that rebuilding stage would have come and went. Hiring Horn and not Marshall was the biggest fail in the last Decade for USC.
He's done a lot with nothing at Wichita State. At the time that we made the hire, we had no reason he could go out and recruit the talent we need here.
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