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Old 02-03-2014, 02:56 PM   #4501
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Default Re: The Star Conundrum

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Originally Posted by sc455 View Post
With this class, sc will have over 30 4 star players..you make it sound like we are rutgers or something.

we aren't Rutgers and we aren't Alabama, we are somewhere in between. You guys need to understand that some very traditional powerhouses are above us in the sec. bama, uf, uga, auburn, lsu, tenn, etc...we will never ever consistently outrank those guys in recruiting. the sec is a bitch of a conference.

understand who we are and you guys will deal with this better.
In a way I agree, and not. FLA was not always this good at recruiting as they are now. They are coming off the worst season in 20 years with a coach who may not be there. TEN has their best class in a decade and what about KY. The head coach drives recruiting, SOS does not make it a priority for whatever reason. I like where we are as a program, but if we want Championships, our recruiting has to be a bigger priority.
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Old 02-03-2014, 03:30 PM   #4502
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Default Re: The Star Conundrum

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Originally Posted by CockTail View Post
Exactly. We have the hard working, motivated 3* guys, we have coaches that can develop players, we just need a few more Elite players to get us over the top, and we are coming up just short.
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Originally Posted by ctgarric View Post
I agree with this. But there is also an undeniable gap between the top of the conference (historically: Ala, LSU, UGA, Fla) and the rest of the conference. It isn't just SC.

Having said that, I am not saying you can't get to ATL or win an SEC Championship with out recruiting at their level. Look at Mizzou from this last year. But to get to ATL consistently, it does take that kind of recruiting.

I am not taking a shot at our coaches, that is just where we are.
I agree with both of you! We sort of are where we are. We are never going to recruit at a level of Bama, LSU, Florida, or even UGA. But we can continue to do what we so best and get kids that want I be Gamecocks and want go work hard and still get really talented kids.

I can agree with you also seemingly like we just need a few more guys to help us turn the corner. Seems like each year we have 2-3 misses on huge targets like Floyd or Prince. I mean it's recruiting you are gonna miss some but we are soooo close.

We have some players on this team now who are game changers like Cooper, Mike D., and Skai Moore. Hopefully we will get a few more in this class.
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Old 02-03-2014, 03:48 PM   #4503
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Default Re: The Star Conundrum

Having said everything we've said here. I do remember, not that long ago, about being really excited about getting 2-3 four star guys in a class. Now we are getting 7-10. That's a big difference that some success has generated.

We'll just need to continue to grow and maybe get a conference championship under our belt, and then we'll be able to keep up with the UGAs and FLAs with some of these recruits.
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Old 02-03-2014, 04:14 PM   #4504
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Default Re: The Star Conundrum

I repeat, our coaches are just not ones inclined to battle late in the game for 4 and 5 star guys, they spend their time working on them when they are sophomores in HS. If we are still in good shape will stay on them, if not we're going to look at those that aren't 4 or 5 stars while continuing to work those underclassmen.
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Old 02-03-2014, 04:15 PM   #4505
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Default Re: The Star Conundrum

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Originally Posted by sgacock View Post
the only coaches who care about recruitiing RANKINGS and stars are the ones who are on the hotseat.
Than Dabo would be on the hotseat.
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Old 02-03-2014, 04:18 PM   #4506
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Default Re: The Star Conundrum

The other thing that gets lost in the Star discussion is this:

A kid is Not a 5* player because Rivals or ESPN says so. They are a 5* because coaches from major powers covet their services and make them a priority in their recruiting class. If Rivals labels a kid a 5* and they do not have offers from any powers, then he will fall. Coaches determine how a recruit is rated. I think it is much easier to spot that kind of talent at the top (5*) than it is in the middle (3* & 4*)
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Old 02-03-2014, 04:30 PM   #4507
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Default Re: The Star Conundrum

Eh I've said it before, if our coaches could pick any 25 recruits in the country they would all be 4* and 5*. That goes for any team. We recruit well enough to compete with the big time teams and our great coaching does the rest. But we saw when our coaching is not there (Tennessee this year) our talent wasn't quite good enough to win the game on it's own. Gotta have stars and coaching to win championships.
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Old 02-03-2014, 04:54 PM   #4508
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Default Re: The Star Conundrum

Looks like the crash & burn crowd are gonna give the ledge a good workout this season.
Eyes on the sky, guys; let your feet do the feelin'.
See you in the spring if you don't fall.
If you slip? Guess we'll make do w/o your genes in the pool.
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Old 02-03-2014, 04:55 PM   #4509
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Default Re: The Star Conundrum

Star rankings DO count for something, BUT they don't count for EVERYTHING.

They're a rough estimate of how good a kid currently is. There's a lot that happens between a commit and them graduating college. They're only based on available information, such as statisitics (performance, height/weight, 40 time, etc), how they look at the various camps and combines, and also pay attention to what big name schools have offered them. Now, a kid could very easily fly underneath the radar. He might know exactly where he wants to go, commit on getting one offer from a dream school and be done with it. He wouldn't attend all the combines, etc so the only thing that recruiting services have to go off of is their high school performance and the one offer. A recruit intent on going to that one school could also dissuade from getting more offers by telling coaches "sorry, not interested' so they wouldn't even bother extending an offer. Now all of this has to do with how good the recruit is RIGHT NOW.

What no recruiting service can measure just regarding an individual recruit is attitude and desire. Some kids are just plain morons who are all in it for the quick pay day. They're a big fish in their little high school pond and thing they're the second coming. They show up on campus and don't work hard and just plain rot in a festering pile of mediocrity. I think we can all remember a pair of running backs that fit that description.

Outside of the recruit themself, there's also the program that they get into. If a program isn't stable (coaching changes) or just doesn't develop talent very well, doesn't have a good S&C program, they're not going to develop like they could/should.

So stars do count for something, but they are by no means the end-all-be-all of a recruit. They shouldn't be relied upon nearly as much nor portrayed to be as meaningless as they are. The answer is somewhere in the middle.

Extrapolate that further out...you can't get all caught up in class star rankings. In a sport where all the positions are so different, you've got to understand that it's all about addressing needs first, and then getting the best player second. A 5 star kicker probably is going to be an awful OT. A five star running back won't make a very good quarter back. It can get to be a square-peg/round-hole situation.
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Old 02-03-2014, 05:08 PM   #4510
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Default Re: The Star Conundrum

^^^well said.

You need the talent but you gotta have a good attitude, work ethic and dedication to go with it.
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Old 02-03-2014, 05:27 PM   #4511
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Default Re: The Star Conundrum

Quote:
Originally Posted by sc455 View Post
With this class, sc will have over 30 4 star players..you make it sound like we are rutgers or something.

we aren't Rutgers and we aren't Alabama, we are somewhere in between. You guys need to understand that some very traditional powerhouses are above us in the sec. bama, uf, uga, auburn, lsu, tenn, etc...we will never ever consistently outrank those guys in recruiting. the sec is a bitch of a conference.

understand who we are and you guys will deal with this better.
I understand who we are very well, we finished 4th in the country ahead of all of those teams except Auburn. We have won 33 games the last 3 years, only Oregon, Stanford, and Bama can relate. We should not be getting out recruited by a Tenn, UGA, or UF because we are the team to beat in the East the last 3 years. UF and Tenn are dumpster fires and UGA just cleaned house of all of their coaches and their senior leaders graduated or drafted.
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Old 02-03-2014, 05:50 PM   #4512
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Default Re: The Star Conundrum

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Originally Posted by Woody7687 View Post
We should not be getting out recruited by a Tenn, UGA, or UF because we are the team to beat in the East the last 3 years. UF and Tenn are dumpster fires and UGA just cleaned house of all of their coaches and their senior leaders graduated or drafted.
And our unique situation of only have 4 seniors makes our recruiting difficult this year. It's alot easier for those teams to "out recruit" us simply based on numbers. Our coaches had to do their best to address specific needs with limited scholarships to do it. On the flip side, while these programs are bringing in a whole wrath of inexperienced guys, we've managed to keep guys in our program longer, meaning they have a better understanding of what the coaches want them to do and when.

Here's the break down of our player classes in 2013. We had
1 RS SR
4 SR's
14 RS JR's
11 JR's
17 RS Sophomores
11 Sophomores
21 RS Freshmen
25 Freshmen

We are building a base of players from the bottom up. Many of our best recruits for the past couple of years have taken redshirts. If someone doesn't understand what a extra year of coaching and physical development can mean for a 17/18 year old then I won't ever be able to change ones mind, and you'll (that's a generic you'll) simply remain, star struck.
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Old 02-03-2014, 06:04 PM   #4513
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Default Re: The Star Conundrum

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Originally Posted by Woody7687 View Post
We should not be getting out recruited by a Tenn, UGA, or UF because we are the team to beat in the East the last 3 years.
Nobody cares a/b that and only fans of either team know the W-L record going back several years (what's the 5 year record of Ole Miss and MSU? I dunno, doubt you do either). We finished #4 this year, that's awesome, but it doesn't matter much outside of our fanbase. Quick question: who finished fourth in 2011? 2009? 2004? Who gives a shit.

You need hardware. UT, UF, UGA have hardware. That stays in people's heads. Until we win the SEC, those guys will always out recruit us. (And even then, UGA and UF are likely to outrecruit us given the talent goldmine they sit on).
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Old 02-03-2014, 06:46 PM   #4514
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Default Re: The Star Conundrum

It's not like we don't recruit the big time guys. SC just doesn't have the pull that the Bama's, FSU's, Texas's of the world have. It's more than just having good teams. It's more than having nice facilities. It's more than having good academics. It's more than having a good college town. It's all of it as a package. SC is still building to the top level of all of those things.

If we can keep putting together teams that have a chance to win the SEC year in and year out, sooner or later we will be in the top of recruiting rankings year in and year out too. But really, at the end of the day who give a rat's ass if ESPN or rivals or 247 puts us at # 3 or #23 in recruiting rankings? All that has to do with numbers and individual site bias or whether or not they went to specific camps. If we finish the football season #3 rather than #23, that's what matter's. That put's us in position to win championships. That's what we all want.
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Old 02-03-2014, 07:02 PM   #4515
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Default Re: The Star Conundrum

Edward Ashoff's Q&A today, I was the guy who asked him about South Carolina turning 3 and 4 star players into 5 star caliber players on the field. He even linked an image mimicking what I asked. Safe to say, I am a tad proud of myself on this one.

http://espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/i...y-chat-wrap-68
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Old 02-03-2014, 07:34 PM   #4516
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Default Re: The Star Conundrum

Number of Rivals 5*'s per year.



So there are about 120 FBS teams competing for about 30-ish 5*'s per year.

If you look at where they end up, I think I can make the case that championships get you 5* players, not the other way around...

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Old 02-03-2014, 08:03 PM   #4517
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Default Re: The Star Conundrum

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Number of Rivals 5*'s per year.



So there are about 120 FBS teams competing for about 30-ish 5*'s per year.

If you look at where they end up, I think I can make the case that championships get you 5* players, not the other way around...

That is great analysis. If you want to win a NC you had need to get 2-3, 5* players to get there. We would be 7th in our own league.
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Old 02-03-2014, 08:47 PM   #4518
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Default Re: The Star Conundrum

I know a lot of you will disagree because we don't get them, but if you get enough five star players you can win championships. The problem is that USC just can't get them. If Marcus or Clowney had been from any other state we probably would have had no chance to get them. There are very few 5 stars from the state of South Carolina and we aren't getting them from somewhere else. I agree that we do a good job with the players we get, but we keep coming up short for a reason.
But, I'll take 11-2 every year, as long as two of the wins are against the taters and the doggies.
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Old 02-03-2014, 08:49 PM   #4519
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Default Re: The Star Conundrum

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That is great analysis. If you want to win a NC you had need to get 2-3, 5* players to get there. We would be 7th in our own league.
By your analysis why hasn't So Cal won one???
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Old 02-03-2014, 09:09 PM   #4520
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Default Re: 2015 - Mitch Hyatt

Clemson is expecting his commitment on Signing Day Wednesday. Obviously he is a 2015 recruit.
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