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Old 02-06-2014, 12:53 AM   #481
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

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I have been critical of our staff, but I will give credit where credit is due. They closed on the guys we absolutely had to have. Finishing 15th with limited availability is pretty good. Finishing with four very good players on NSD is something we have not done very often.

My criticism of the staff is that we need more elite talent, not that we can't get ANY elite talent. We did get some great players in this cycle. Even 15th nationally means we are 8th in our own conference. We are already at a disadvantage in overall talent, if we want to win our conference. We got lucky in Lammons and McClain, we were not really on their radar two months ago. They came here because they were sliding down the priority list at FLA and FSU, that was good for us.
??? That's recruiting, my man. It's mercurial in nature. Do you honestly and truly believe that we're going to have 10 5-stars 10 4-stars and 5 3-stars commit for 2015 tomorrow? Alabama, LSU, et al. were sweating out recruits today, too. Stars matter, unless they don't. As trapper said, it's an inexact science and better to reassess after 2-3 years (same goes for the NFL Draft). No one in the last 2 classes combined equal Clowney. We had him. We just got a great crop that addresses desperate team needs despite being limited by restrictions. Could it have been better? Sure. Prince would've been nice. Maybe Scott, Ford and/or Spain. Try and have some perspective. This isn't 2+2=4.
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Old 02-06-2014, 12:56 AM   #482
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

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Star ratings are not perfect for every single player, but when added up, they do tell the story of how talented an entire class is. My reference was over the last 10 years or so, you had to finish in top 6 to win a title, NC or SEC. We are in the toughest conference in the nation, logic should tell you that you can't consistently start with the 8th best talent and consistently beat teams with better talent, unless you have a distinct advantage in coaching. This explains the FLA example, Muschamp can't coach. Meyer could. He did not leave because of cancers, he left because his wife was having an affair.

I love how some like to ignore star rating unless they are talking about a recruit that committed to us. I want us to win titles, and I think this class has some great players, we will need a lot more of them if we want to win titles. I am not raining on our success, just pointing out that IMHO recruiting is the weakness of our program.
But you're only applying "high school star rankings" as your metric of talent and not on field performance. That's your error. (And overlooking that we've won 11 games 3 years in a row w/ what you deem to be, presumably, "inferior talent".) So what makes those teams "better"? Which specific teams are you referring to that we're not "consistently beating" due to their "better talent"?
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:10 AM   #483
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

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Clemson down to 18th in 247 Team Rankings, South Carolina 15th. So they don't have that feather in their pathetic little caps, either.
Clemson's 12th and 13th on ESPN and Rivals. They forgot to deduct the stupidity points - 3 linemen (O & D combined), none highly sought. One defensive back.
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:14 AM   #484
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

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But you're only applying "high school star rankings" as your metric of talent and not on field performance. That's your error. (And overlooking that we've won 11 games 3 years in a row w/ what you deem to be, presumably, "inferior talent".) So what makes those teams "better"? Which specific teams are you referring to that we're not "consistently beating" due to their "better talent"?
Amen brother! Best example is Georgia - finishes in the top 10 recruiting every single year, but does not have a record as good as ours for the last three years combined and we have beat them 2 out of 3 years. They will probably always have a better recruiting class than ours because greater Atlanta has as many great high school football players as any region in the country (and most of them want to play in state). I will say it again - The teams that will compete at a high level will be the teams that fill their needs, recruit their type of players and keep them in school, develop their players, and provide excellent coaching. I have a hard time being negative about our program when we have another solid recruiting class, finished 11-2 three years in a row, beat Clemson 5 years in a row, and finished 4th in the nation. One would be blind to see that we have had gradual and sustained progress. Lets keep positive (that's what separates Gamecock fans from other fans) - GO COCKS!
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:18 AM   #485
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

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??? That's recruiting, my man. It's mercurial in nature. Do you honestly and truly believe that we're going to have 10 5-stars 10 4-stars and 5 3-stars commit for 2015 tomorrow? Alabama, LSU, et al. were sweating out recruits today, too. Stars matter, unless they don't. As trapper said, it's an inexact science and better to reassess after 2-3 years (same goes for the NFL Draft). No one in the last 2 classes combined equal Clowney. We had him. We just got a great crop that addresses desperate team needs despite being limited by restrictions. Could it have been better? Sure. Prince would've been nice. Maybe Scott, Ford and/or Spain. Try and have some perspective. This isn't 2+2=4.
Based on history and well accepted math, 2+2 does =4. You have to have the ELITE talent and coaching to win an SEC Title and/or NC. Go look at every NC the last 10 years, they all had roughly top 10 classes the 3 years before they won the title, the numbers are even more important when looking at an SEC title because we have more teams in the top 10 of classes. Our path to a NC is harder than teams from the PAC 10 or ACC as an example. Teams from those conferences could get there with less talent and get lighting in a bottle and upset an SEC power.

The example of the NFL 2* argument is ridiculous. Do you think you can take a team full so 2*s and beat ALA or FSU? If that were the case NFL teams should not draft anyone based on their draft rating, they should take only UDFAs, because ratings don't mean anything.

Our talent gives us a chance to win a championship if everything goes right, but our room for error, injuries, dumb player decisions, coaching lapses or academics is razor thin. That's perspective. Go Cocks!
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:27 AM   #486
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

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Amen brother! Best example is Georgia - finishes in the top 10 recruiting every single year, but does not have a record as good as ours for the last three years combined and we have beat them 2 out of 3 years. They will probably always have a better recruiting class than ours because greater Atlanta has as many great high school football players as any region in the country (and most of them want to play in state). I will say it again - The teams that will compete at a high level will be the teams that fill their needs, recruit their type of players and keep them in school, develop their players, and provide excellent coaching. I have a hard time being negative about our program when we have another solid recruiting class, finished 11-2 three years in a row, beat Clemson 5 years in a row, and finished 4th in the nation. One would be blind to see that we have had gradual and sustained progress. Lets keep positive (that's what separates Gamecock fans from other fans) - GO COCKS!
And all that success and we have had 1 trip to the SEC Championship. Why?
Use GA as the example, they do have an SEC title. We do have an advantage over them, our coaching is better.

I am not negative on our program, I have been a COCK nearly 50 years and I want us to win one while our window is open. We are at the pinnacle of our program, but we will not have SOS forever, and we need to close the only disadvantage I see in our program-recruiting.
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:39 AM   #487
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Default Re: Spurrier to Speak @3:30 on EspnU

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I swear he does that stuff on purpose. He calls Cowherd "Colon" most of the time.
That is utterly hilarious!
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Old 02-06-2014, 02:00 AM   #488
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Default Re: Spurrier to Speak @3:30 on EspnU

I worked an event this afternoon for the USC signing banquet at 701 whaley. All the coaches attended and majority of the big wig donors attended also. Whammy was outside right beside me when he was on the phone with Wesley Green literally minutes after he committed, Ward was SO pumped up when he was talking to him. He was telling him that we are on the way to a championship and he's going to be a big part. All the coaches individually went to the podium throughout the evening and discussed the different recruits that were coming in and showed all the different players highlights. The best part was SOS taking the podium and throwing a couple zings into the crowd about the taters. After seeing and hearing the coaches speak, I realize that we now have the staff in place to make a run in 2014 and in many years to come. Just figured I'd share my NSD afternoon. Go Gamecocks!
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Old 02-06-2014, 02:51 AM   #489
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

Clemson still keeps heading straight for the dessert table while we load up on carbs.
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Old 02-06-2014, 03:06 AM   #490
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

Wait, Clempson seriously only got 3 kids on either line TOTAL?
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Old 02-06-2014, 03:54 AM   #491
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

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Based on history and well accepted math, 2+2 does =4. You have to have the ELITE talent and coaching to win an SEC Title and/or NC. Go look at every NC the last 10 years, they all had roughly top 10 classes the 3 years before they won the title, the numbers are even more important when looking at an SEC title because we have more teams in the top 10 of classes. Our path to a NC is harder than teams from the PAC 10 or ACC as an example. Teams from those conferences could get there with less talent and get lighting in a bottle and upset an SEC power.

The example of the NFL 2* argument is ridiculous. Do you think you can take a team full so 2*s and beat ALA or FSU? If that were the case NFL teams should not draft anyone based on their draft rating, they should take only UDFAs, because ratings don't mean anything.

Our talent gives us a chance to win a championship if everything goes right, but our room for error, injuries, dumb player decisions, coaching lapses or academics is razor thin. That's perspective. Go Cocks!
First and foremost, you barely responded to any of my points. Secondly, where did I use the "NFL 2* argument"? I said that the NFL Draft isn't an exact science either. (The Seahawks, for example, just won a little game w/ a QB and team who weren't considered "elite" NFL Draft prospects). The NFL doesn't use a star rating system so it's specious reasoning at best. As far as "NFL teams shouldn't draft anyone based on ratings", it's slippery slope reasoning and doesn't remotely pertain to this discussion. The inverse (which would be your argument) is that the draft should only be 2 rounds long.

Thirdly, please point to where I said "you can take a team full of 2*" and beat Alabama and FSU"? Also: remind me where we have a team "full of 2*"? We don't and haven't for many years.

You can crap on our recruiting and class all you want, but you're not being realistic in the least to expect us to land boatloads of 5 stars year in and year out. That's just not feasible given the state's crop of talent and our history. What would satisfy you? How many 5 stars do you realistically think we should have, per class? 5? 10? What ranking would you like to see? Do you honestly believe Number 1 is feasible, year in and year out?
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Old 02-06-2014, 03:58 AM   #492
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

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And all that success and we have had 1 trip to the SEC Championship. Why?
Use GA as the example, they do have an SEC title. We do have an advantage over them, our coaching is better.

I am not negative on our program, I have been a COCK nearly 50 years and I want us to win one while our window is open. We are at the pinnacle of our program, but we will not have SOS forever, and we need to close the only disadvantage I see in our program-recruiting.
We have the 15th nationally ranked class that is filled w/ highly ranked 4-stars at positions of desperate need on the heels of a Top 4 ranking and 3 straight 11 win seasons. There is always room for improvement (Special Teams is a much bigger "disadvantage in the program" than recruiting, for example) in every area, but I sincerely fail to see how recruiting is doing drastic harm to the program.
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Old 02-06-2014, 04:28 AM   #493
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

What a great haul today. It was nice to see that no school lured our recruits away.
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Old 02-06-2014, 06:29 AM   #494
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

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....just pointing out that IMHO recruiting is the weakness of our program.
As if it's some great secret you've uncovered and everyone else is in denial (and as pointed out above, recruiting is probably 2nd to STs).

Maybe you can tell us how to fix this? How can USC get highly rated recruits to choose USC over the other 7 SEC teams that finished ahead in the recruit rankings? How can USC bring in a class that rivals Bama, UTex, UF or LSU? And will that class be comprised of high risk guys who will put USC back on the Fulmer list like some in the past (check out UGA and Vandy)? Maybe we need a Cam Newton or Jamis Winston?
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:42 AM   #495
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

I think Clemson got 3-5 depending on how a TE/OL and a LB/DE play out.

We signed 9 it appears...7 of which were on the DL.

Eye opening to me was that Bama signed 12 linemen of their 26, that split even 6 on OL, 6 on DL.
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Old 02-06-2014, 08:23 AM   #496
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

Can anyone remember a more dramatic finish to recruiting in year's past? We jumped +/- 8 spots in most of the rankings in the last day...kudos to our coaches and players!
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Old 02-06-2014, 08:29 AM   #497
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Default Re: Spurrier to Speak @3:30 on EspnU

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I worked an event this afternoon for the USC signing banquet at 701 whaley. All the coaches attended and majority of the big wig donors attended also. Whammy was outside right beside me when he was on the phone with Wesley Green literally minutes after he committed, Ward was SO pumped up when he was talking to him. He was telling him that we are on the way to a championship and he's going to be a big part. All the coaches individually went to the podium throughout the evening and discussed the different recruits that were coming in and showed all the different players highlights. The best part was SOS taking the podium and throwing a couple zings into the crowd about the taters. After seeing and hearing the coaches speak, I realize that we now have the staff in place to make a run in 2014 and in many years to come. Just figured I'd share my NSD afternoon. Go Gamecocks!
Thanks for sharing - love hearing the coaching staff excited and confident!
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:07 AM   #498
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

The reality needs to set in that USC will never out recruit the big 7 in the SEC (Bama, LSU, UF, UGA, aTm, AU, UT) on a yearly basis with the exception of possibly UT and that run seems to be over too.

USC doesn't have the instate depth year to year. Spurrier's highest rated classes were years where the state was strong. That hasn't been the case since 2009. USC neither has the facilities, budget, or trophy case to recruit nationally every year. That is absolute truth and I don't see why people overlook that.

It takes a specific type of player to come here and a special coaching staff that can evaluate players and in turn, develop them when in the program. South Carolina is a poor man's Virginia Tech of the SEC who signs better talent year to year. The difference is that VaTech has hardware. Finishing between 10 and 20 in the final rankings should be considered USC's sweet spot.

That's reality.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:15 AM   #499
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The reality needs to set in that USC will never out recruit the big 7 in the SEC (Bama, LSU, UF, UGA, aTm, AU, UT) on a yearly basis with the exception of possibly UT and that run seems to be over too.

USC doesn't have the instate depth year to year. Spurrier's highest rated classes were years where the state was strong. That hasn't been the case since 2009. USC neither has the facilities, budget, or trophy case to recruit nationally every year. That is absolute truth and I don't see why people overlook that.

It takes a specific type of player to come here and a special coaching staff that can evaluate players and in turn, develop them when in the program. South Carolina is a poor man's Virginia Tech of the SEC who signs better talent year to year. The difference is that VaTech has hardware. Finishing between 10 and 20 in the final rankings should be considered USC's sweet spot.

That's reality.
Agree to an extent. But very much spot on.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:33 AM   #500
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

If we continue to recruit like we have been for the past 5-6 years and finish every year with solid top 15-20 classes, then we will have the starting talent, as well as the depth to go toe to toe with anyone.

Just because someone inks a better class doees not mean that we can't beat them on the field with what we have. Our coaches do a phenomenal job evaluating and getting in on talent early. Look at Pharoah Cooper last year, and, to an extent, Bryson Allen-Williams this year. Our coaches have a systematic approach to recruiting because they know exactly what Cover Two just said. It is difficult to go toe to toe with the big dogs of the SEC every year and out recruit them. Thus, we put in a lot of time evaluating talent and offering those that we believe with grow into the player that we need. I love the way our coaches recruit because it shows their abilities to evaluate, and develop talent. Our program has never been better, and the foundation has been laid for it to be good for a long time to come. If we can manage to win a conference title along the way, things will continue to pick up.
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