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Old 02-06-2014, 09:33 AM   #501
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

Maybe this was already said, but I'm not going to read through 23 pages of this...but aren't the recruiting rankings ALSO effected by THE NUMBER of recruits you sign? For example, if one team signs 30 players and most are 4s with a few 3s, they will outrank a team that signs 21 players with mostly 4s and some 3s.

We only lost 8 players from last year's team AND with some attrition we only HAD 20 +/- spots to sign. If we had recruited at the same pace (4s and 3s) and added say 8 more players to this class...we'd have finished higher.

Frankly, I LOVE the makeup of our Freshman to Senior classes for this team and I think that the recruiting that we finished with this season has raised a ton of eyebrows in a great way. We got everyone we wanted and a few that we were not even counting on. I think we took care of positional selections that we HAD to have with some players that will impact immediately AND with the current players on the team we should do VERY well for the next few years.

Keep the machine working as is and I say we'll be fine. I think our coaches are VERY good at recruiting and mostly importantly at recognizing talent and the "plug and play" aspect of what players best fit into what we need offensively and defensively.

I think our coaches are better at recruiting and talent recognition than they are at gameday coaching - frankly...and we're obviously pretty damn good at that.

About the only weakness that has been a consistent weakness for this group HAS been with special teams. I have to believe that Spurrier and company will address those concerns in the Spring.

I'm as excited as I've EVER been to be a Gamecock. Our stock is still rising!
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:37 AM   #502
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

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Maybe this was already said, but I'm not going to read through 23 pages of this...but aren't the recruiting rankings ALSO effected by THE NUMBER of recruits you sign? For example, if one team signs 30 players and most are 4s with a few 3s, they will outrank a team that signs 21 players with mostly 4s and some 3s.

We only lost 8 players from last year's team AND with some attrition we only HAD 20 +/- spots to sign. If we had recruited at the same pace (4s and 3s) and added say 8 more players to this class...we'd have finished higher.

Frankly, I LOVE the makeup of our Freshman to Senior classes for this team and I think that the recruiting that we finished with this season has raised a ton of eyebrows in a great way. We got everyone we wanted and a few that we were not even counting on. I think we took care of positional selections that we HAD to have with some players that will impact immediately AND with the current players on the team we should do VERY well for the next few years.

Keep the machine working as is and I say we'll be fine. I think our coaches are VERY good at recruiting and mostly importantly at recognizing talent and the "plug and play" aspect of what players best fit into what we need offensively and defensively.

I think our coaches are better at recruiting and talent recognition than they are at gameday coaching - frankly...and we're obviously pretty damn good at that.

About the only weakness that has been a consistent weakness for this group HAS been with special teams. I have to believe that Spurrier and company will address those concerns in the Spring.

I'm as excited as I've EVER been to be a Gamecock. Our stock is still rising!

Player for player one of the best classes we have signed. We signed good players and good character people. This class and our coaching staff aware more than enough to keep us where we are. Stop the whining. We were a missed FG away from playing in the Sec Championship game. If we make or UT missed their last FG and we played Auburn in Atlanta, would you feel differently? We are in the top 5 and the cupboard isn't bare. Just keep winning. Spurrier told a mutual friend that he will have more talent next year from top to bottom than he has ever had here. That has to make you feel good because we haven't been too bad the last 4 years.
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:50 AM   #503
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

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The reality needs to set in that USC will never out recruit the big 7 in the SEC (Bama, LSU, UF, UGA, aTm, AU, UT) on a yearly basis with the exception of possibly UT and that run seems to be over too.

USC doesn't have the instate depth year to year. Spurrier's highest rated classes were years where the state was strong. That hasn't been the case since 2009. USC neither has the facilities, budget, or trophy case to recruit nationally every year. That is absolute truth and I don't see why people overlook that.

It takes a specific type of player to come here and a special coaching staff that can evaluate players and in turn, develop them when in the program. South Carolina is a poor man's Virginia Tech of the SEC who signs better talent year to year. The difference is that VaTech has hardware. Finishing between 10 and 20 in the final rankings should be considered USC's sweet spot.

That's reality.
Well for the "star" people on here. According 247, if you look at just 4 and 5 stars players, we signed more than Florida, Oregon, Texas, SoCal, Miami, Oklahoma, Stanford, Ole Miss, and UCLA. So that really should shut some of them up. And as far as VA Tech goes. I can't remember the last time they actually won something. Really, since we are doing what they do, (win a bunch of regular season games and little else) in the SEC they should be considered a poor man's us since they are in the ACC and have lived on a weak schedule.
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:15 AM   #504
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Default Re: Spurrier to Speak @3:30 on EspnU

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LOL He called him Darci!!!
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:25 AM   #505
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

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Two entirely different situations. Tennessee is promising immediate SEC playing time. We (fortunately) don't have that to offer. UT is also signing 34 players this class so their "ranking" is going to be higher as a result. Look at Ole Miss last year. How'd that work out this season? Will it pay off in 2014-15? Maybe. But it could just as easily not in the toughest division in all of the game. UT is in a similar position (though the East isn't as stacked as the west), but they have a high class primarily due to their on-field failures the past 5 years.
We only ended up with 31 on Rivals. Finished top 5 in three of the services. Top 6 in average star rating.

These services like Rivals only account your top 20 players in your ranking so us having 11 other players gives us 0 extra points.
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:27 AM   #506
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

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The reality needs to set in that USC will never out recruit the big 7 in the SEC (Bama, LSU, UF, UGA, aTm, AU, UT) on a yearly basis with the exception of possibly UT and that run seems to be over too.

USC doesn't have the instate depth year to year. Spurrier's highest rated classes were years where the state was strong. That hasn't been the case since 2009. USC neither has the facilities, budget, or trophy case to recruit nationally every year. That is absolute truth and I don't see why people overlook that.
Okay, I understand the trophy case comment.

But what exactly is wrong with our facilities? I've seen pictures of the nightclub Oregon has. What does Alabama have, Auburn have, Georgia have in the way of facilities, that we don't?

I hear this all the time, but what does it mean exactly? Does our weight room suck? Our practice facility suck? I don't think you can have athletic dorms anymore, so do our living facilities suck?

What does "USC doesn't have the facilities" actually mean? I've seen a lot of complaints about our stadium in the past, but correct me if I am wrong it is about middle of the pack for capacity, and we do a good job of filling it. A lot of people dog on the Shop and Bluff road area for being sort of an industrial park, but other than that is it really that much worse than other SEC stadiums? Worse than the Mississippi schools? What is at Georgia's stadium, or Florida's that make it so much better?

I think a better argument is that the Columbia location isn't as "nice" as say Gainesville or Athens, if you are looking for the classic college town experience.

Now about the money.

I understand that we don't have money coming out of our ears like A&M.

But aside from merchandising and attendance we make as much money as any SEC school does. Some schools have bigger stadiums, but we do pretty well at that.

I'm positive that Alabama makes merchandising money that makes ours look sick. Georgia has an awesome market they naturally dominate. Even more awesome markets in Florida and Texas, though the SEC schools in those states can't say they dominate those markets.

I think Tennessee is probably a little more well heeled as far as endowments go, and they have "goodwill" from their illustrious history. But can you tell me that their merchandising is as much past ours as Alabama's is? Seems to me that while they probably have more cash flow, we could spend as much money on athletics as they can.

If we want to that is.

Then there is the talent issue. Okay, I understand what Georgia is, Florida is, Texas from a talent pool standpoint. But are we any worse off than Alabama, from Mississippi, from Tennessee? Missouri? Arkansas?

Depending on which particular survey you see, Mississippi and Louisiana have much better per capita NFL player production, or about the same. I've seen a bunch of these and a bunch of different numbers.

Offhand I'd say the SEC jobs that are definitely better from a recruiting standpoint are Georgia, Florida, LSU, and Texas A&M.

Alabama has a lot of tradition and headspace. If they have a recruiting demon like Saban they will always be a top recruiter.

But you are going to tell me that we can't recruit as well as Tennessee? As Auburn? Arkansas? The Mississippi schools? Missouri? Vandy? Kentucky?

I don't see a mechanical deficit built in except against Alabama, Georgia, Florida, A&M, and LSU.

I have no quibbles or whines about this recruiting class. I would have offered Baldwin, and not Scarnecchia, but that is because I think immobile quarterbacks are a bad fit for us, for a number of reasons.

But tell me. Do you think if we had a guy like James Franklin or Hugh Freeze, or even Butch Davis, we couldn't make a bigger recruiting splash?

That has nothing to do with being a good head coach, or even whether you sign the right guys or develop them. But if Hugh Freeze can go into Ole Miss and get the recruiting haul he got, year before this, well I have to think you could do it here if you had the right guy. And whether you hate him or whatever, what Franklin did at Vandy recruiting wise is more impressive in my book than what Saban has been doing at Alabama.

Geographically we can sell ourselves in Georgia and NC as well as anyone except in-state schools (and Auburn).

Just saying the larder isn't as bare as you are making out. That said we have 5 SEC schools we can't out recruit, except in a blue moon: LSU, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, and A&M.

The rest are reachable. And if the coach after Saban isn't the same kind of recruiter, Alabama can fall from that perch pretty easily, as the history since Bryant has shown.

Where that leaves us nationally? Probably about the same as what you had as an estimate. 11 to 20 in a given year.

But I think we can recruit every bit as well as Auburn and Tennessee.

I dunno though, with that crowd you are up against nuts (Alabama and Tennessee) that would have no compunctions against imposing statewide levees to build a billion dollar stadium if they thought that gave them a competitive edge.

Or Auburn, *cough, *cough.

So maybe not. But based on potential? Yeah I can see us staying where we are, at least. Third in the east talentwise, year after year.

A lot depends on the coach after Spurrier. We absolutely need a home run hire. But as long as he is here we are going to be a contender. And this staff seems to do a really good job at evaluating who to go after.
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:28 AM   #507
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

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18 of 21 recruits have a 5.7 RR or higher. excellent class
Good way to look at it, 25 out of 31 for TN.

I really do like ya'lls class a lot, good work by your staff!
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:30 AM   #508
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

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Wait, Clempson seriously only got 3 kids on either line TOTAL?
Wow...that is bad.
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:34 AM   #509
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

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The reality needs to set in that USC will never out recruit the big 7 in the SEC (Bama, LSU, UF, UGA, aTm, AU, UT) on a yearly basis with the exception of possibly UT and that run seems to be over too.

USC doesn't have the instate depth year to year. Spurrier's highest rated classes were years where the state was strong. That hasn't been the case since 2009. USC neither has the facilities, budget, or trophy case to recruit nationally every year. That is absolute truth and I don't see why people overlook that.

It takes a specific type of player to come here and a special coaching staff that can evaluate players and in turn, develop them when in the program. South Carolina is a poor man's Virginia Tech of the SEC who signs better talent year to year. The difference is that VaTech has hardware. Finishing between 10 and 20 in the final rankings should be considered USC's sweet spot.

That's reality.
That is a little negative, IMO. South Carolina has built up a brand and it is growing. I think you all just need to get one SEC Title to take the next step. If you can't get that before Spurrier retires I think your comment may end up correct, but I think South Carolina has the potential, if they can just get a title, to step up into the upper crust of college football and stay there.
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:35 AM   #510
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

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The reality needs to set in that USC will never out recruit the big 7 in the SEC (Bama, LSU, UF, UGA, aTm, AU, UT) on a yearly basis with the exception of possibly UT and that run seems to be over too.

USC doesn't have the instate depth year to year. Spurrier's highest rated classes were years where the state was strong. That hasn't been the case since 2009. USC neither has the facilities, budget, or trophy case to recruit nationally every year. That is absolute truth and I don't see why people overlook that.

It takes a specific type of player to come here and a special coaching staff that can evaluate players and in turn, develop them when in the program. South Carolina is a poor man's Virginia Tech of the SEC who signs better talent year to year. The difference is that VaTech has hardware. Finishing between 10 and 20 in the final rankings should be considered USC's sweet spot.

That's reality.
Even though we may already be outrecruting them, we won't know it because the recruiting industry is set up with inherent bias in favor of the big seven. No matter who we or they get, they will be seen by the media as better players. The people evaluating the players and writing up their stars in the media simply do not know what they are doing.
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:38 AM   #511
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

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Wow...that is bad.
But they took 6 linebackers!!!
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:44 AM   #512
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

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But they took 6 linebackers!!!
Yea my Clemson buddy down here is really happy with the class and didn't care that they didn't steal Cory Thomas from us and Miss St did.

That is the main reason I am pumped about our class we signed 10 lineman 6 DL and 4 OL with 5 of them being 4*'s.
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:44 AM   #513
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

QB recruiting and development is the great equalizer. It's not everything, obviously, but a good one can mask talent deficiencies elsewhere, while a bad one will hold back even the most stacked teams, e.g., Florida post-Tebow.

If SC can continue to recruit at its current level, and get at least Connor Shaw-level QB play, they'll continue to be able to play with anyone in the conference and country.
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:47 AM   #514
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

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QB recruiting and development is the great equalizer. It's not everything, obviously, but a good one can mask talent deficiencies elsewhere, while a bad one will hold back even the most stacked teams, e.g., Florida post-Tebow.

If SC can continue to recruit at its current level, and get at least Connor Shaw-level QB play, they'll continue to be able to play with anyone in the conference and country.
How do you all feel about Thompson? Think he will be able to hold onto the job all season?

QB is a huge ? for us, need Ferguson or Dobbs to step up this spring bad.
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:51 AM   #515
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

This class is probably in the top 2 or three classes we've had in the spurrier era. You've got to think about how hard it is to project this stuff. Think about how wrong the NFL draft projections are and that is with years more film against better competition and more mature players to evaluate. To me, as long as you're around the top 20 every year and getting kids you want and not having to scramble just to fill spots you are doing a good enough job to win the national title if everything else falls into place. When we win an SEC or two our recruiting ranking will inflate but it will probably be more due to the fact that the services will place additional weight on our offers. Kind of like how when the patriots draft someone now, mel kiper bows down to the guys who really know what they're doing. The only thing that really seperates us from the very top guys is a prima donna qb. The only problem is I don't see spurrier starting to bring in prima donna qbs, ever.
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:53 AM   #516
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

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How do you all feel about Thompson? Think he will be able to hold onto the job all season?

QB is a huge ? for us, need Ferguson or Dobbs to step up this spring bad.

He should be able to. During the Clemson and Nebraska games season before last, he was looking like a first rounder. He's certainly got more experience than any other first year starter I can remember.
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:55 AM   #517
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Ericvol2096 View Post
Yea my Clemson buddy down here is really happy with the class and didn't care that they didn't steal Cory Thomas from us and Miss St did.

That is the main reason I am pumped about our class we signed 10 lineman 6 DL and 4 OL with 5 of them being 4*'s.
I heard Clemson is going to be run a 2-5 defense next year so this class fit their needs PERFECTLY.
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:57 AM   #518
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

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Okay, I understand the trophy case comment.

But what exactly is wrong with our facilities? I've seen pictures of the nightclub Oregon has. What does Alabama have, Auburn have, Georgia have in the way of facilities, that we don't?

I hear this all the time, but what does it mean exactly? Does our weight room suck? Our practice facility suck? I don't think you can have athletic dorms anymore, so do our living facilities suck?

What does "USC doesn't have the facilities" actually mean? I've seen a lot of complaints about our stadium in the past, but correct me if I am wrong it is about middle of the pack for capacity, and we do a good job of filling it. A lot of people dog on the Shop and Bluff road area for being sort of an industrial park, but other than that is it really that much worse than other SEC stadiums? Worse than the Mississippi schools? What is at Georgia's stadium, or Florida's that make it so much better?

I think a better argument is that the Columbia location isn't as "nice" as say Gainesville or Athens, if you are looking for the classic college town experience.
One of these days I am going to get around to posting the pictures of my gameday experience from the clempson game. I went on a tour of Williams Brice, the locker rooms, the media center, the VIP rooms, the whole shebang. Got my picture taken with several star players lockers (No, I didn't touch anything) and saw where they hang out, have the pregame meals and do the workouts.

Here is what you, and others who have this question need to understand. Every single thing I was shown that regarded players had been upgraded since 2005. (i.e. the year Spurrier arrived) The media center hasn't been upgraded at all and it shows, looks like it was done in the Mad Men era and not touched since. We have a LONG way to go to catch some of these schools when it comes to facilities. We do have some nice things, but not like some other places. Now not all of these places are doing this wisely, Tennessee racked up amazing amounts of debt building their place. But it probably played a part in flipping Scott, so take it for what its worth. Compare that with the trophy cases, as C2 said, and it's an uphill battle before it even gets started. I've said it a few times now, Alabama has twice as many National Championship trophies as we have bowl wins. To say "We should recruit like Alabama" is a little shortsighted to say the least.

Being an independent for so long absolutely killed what we were able to do on a broad scale for quite a long time. The leadership of the school really hurt us in those regards, as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 02-06-2014, 12:01 PM   #519
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

Well the man who took our baseball program to the top is in charge of facilities now.
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Old 02-06-2014, 12:01 PM   #520
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Default Re: CockyTalk's 2014 National Signing Day Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by LegalCock View Post
He should be able to. During the Clemson and Nebraska games season before last, he was looking like a first rounder. He's certainly got more experience than any other first year starter I can remember.
That's a pretty big stretch, IMO. Against Clemson he had about 3 should've been interceptions and threw another 2 or 3 into the dirt.

He played very well (and clutch) for a guy in his first significant action in two huge games, but let's not overrate his play based on that fact and George Whitfield's comments (about having potential 1st-round physical tools).

I'm a little skeptical, since he didn't look terribly impressive when he played this season, though it's surely not easy coming in cold in the middle of games. He needs a big spring and summer with most of the 1st-team reps.
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