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Old 02-08-2014, 05:23 PM   #61
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Default Re: Connor booed at upstate Christian concert

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Originally Posted by eightohhthree View Post
Its rooted in my decision to be respectful of others in regards to whatever it is they choose to believe. My beliefs are not popular in the United States, especially in the South, and I recognize that. Im completely okay with with it. Im not sure why "faith" or "believing" without any real evidence is a good thing. I've yet to have someone give me a logical/rational explanation as to why, other than "you'll burn for eternity". Im a reasonable dude and I live by a code of conduct that even falls inline with the last 5-6 commandments.

Im honestly not that concerned about offending others, because I've done and said many offensive things. I stay out of the religious banter because I generally don't care for Christians pushing their beliefs any more than I care for Atheists pushing ours.
this is a great post and outlook on life.
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Old 02-08-2014, 06:30 PM   #62
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Default Re: Connor booed at upstate Christian concert

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first off there is no christian faith singular. there are many many groups of religious people that base their beliefs off of the reported teachings of christ that as a result may be categorized as christians. some are very loving and accepting of all forms of truth. others are more hatefilled and believe only their interpretation of god's message is correcct and all others will be punished if not in this life in the next. so no the christian faith cannot be the truth because it is not one faith.

As for me personally, I believe in many truths. I believe that if there is a god, they would care more about what you do to help your fellow man. Jesus reported shared this belief, "what you do unto the least of these you have done to me". I also believe that if there is a god worth worshiping they would not love me more than the 3+ billion people that live in china and india. So I do not believe that evangelical christianity is the only truth that get you into heaven because for that to be true, god would have to love me more than at least half of the worlds population because he put them on this earth in places where they will never get the chance to even be exposed to evangelical doctorine.

so yes i believe many truths and many of them from the reported teachings of Jesus in the gospels. Those books contain many beautiful lessons. "just not lest ye be judged", as well as his teachings that expanded the rules from the hebrew bible (the old testament) to include the spirit of the laws and not just the letter of the law.

I don't believe that a god that loving god would put at least half the world at such an extreme disadvantage as to make their only be one way to getting the benefits of his love. I would classify that god not as a loving god but as a pety and hatefilled god. and one that is unworthy of worship. but if you are more capable of doing the mental gymnastics necessary to justify these seemingly conflicting ideas perhaps you have found the truth for you.
So you believe in pre-destination?
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Old 02-08-2014, 06:33 PM   #63
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Default Re: Connor booed at upstate Christian concert

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Wait so you're one of the few christians who believes that christians have no reason to tell other people how to live their lives or who/if to worship? If so i'd like to shake your hand because your a true ambassador for your beliefs. If however you believe that only your religious views are correct and all other views will get you deservedly punished (sent to hell), then believe it or not that means you consider yourself morally superior. Its this belief in moral superiority that gets christians mocked when one of the flock acts up.its not an intolerance of cchristians specifically, its an intolerance of people who act/think they are better than everyone else.
Sure...you can shake my hand. Although, I'm a little of a germaphobe, so would a fist bump be okay?

I don't tell people how to live...I tell them my story and my experiences and the they decide for themselves if they choose to be live in God or not.

Correct...I reckon you mean truth. Would you min defining what you believe truth is?

Believing yourself to be morally superior to someone else is not relegated to only Christianity. If someone has that belief, that is not a Christian belief and therefore does not represent a true picture of Christ's teachings.

Are you intolerant of Christians that you say act intolerant to a point that bothers you?
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Old 02-08-2014, 06:39 PM   #64
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Default Re: Connor booed at upstate Christian concert

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So you believe in pre-destination?
No, but i also dont understand why you ask this.
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Old 02-08-2014, 06:47 PM   #65
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Default Re: Connor booed at upstate Christian concert

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Originally Posted by sporkgod50 View Post
first off there is no christian faith singular. there are many many groups of religious people that base their beliefs off of the reported teachings of christ that as a result may be categorized as christians. some are very loving and accepting of all forms of truth. others are more hatefilled and believe only their interpretation of god's message is correcct and all others will be punished if not in this life in the next. so no the christian faith cannot be the truth because it is not one faith.

As for me personally, I believe in many truths. I believe that if there is a god, they would care more about what you do to help your fellow man. Jesus reported shared this belief, "what you do unto the least of these you have done to me". I also believe that if there is a god worth worshiping they would not love me more than the 3+ billion people that live in china and india. So I do not believe that evangelical christianity is the only truth that get you into heaven because for that to be true, god would have to love me more than at least half of the worlds population because he put them on this earth in places where they will never get the chance to even be exposed to evangelical doctorine.

so yes i believe many truths and many of them from the reported teachings of Jesus in the gospels. Those books contain many beautiful lessons. "just not lest ye be judged", as well as his teachings that expanded the rules from the hebrew bible (the old testament) to include the spirit of the laws and not just the letter of the law.

I don't believe that a god that loving god would put at least half the world at such an extreme disadvantage as to make their only be one way to getting the benefits of his love. I would classify that god not as a loving god but as a pety and hatefilled god. and one that is unworthy of worship. but if you are more capable of doing the mental gymnastics necessary to justify these seemingly conflicting ideas perhaps you have found the truth for you.
You're saying God has destined them to be there and un reached by the gospel.
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Old 02-08-2014, 06:49 PM   #66
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Default Re: Connor booed at upstate Christian concert

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Sure...you can shake my hand. Although, I'm a little of a germaphobe, so would a fist bump be okay?

I don't tell people how to live...I tell them my story and my experiences and the they decide for themselves if they choose to be live in God or not.

Correct...I reckon you mean truth. Would you min defining what you believe truth is?

Believing yourself to be morally superior to someone else is not relegated to only Christianity. If someone has that belief, that is not a Christian belief and therefore does not represent a true picture of Christ's teachings.

Are you intolerant of Christians that you say act intolerant to a point that bothers you?
a fist bump sounds fine, but as a virolgist i got to tell you that its not going to help with the prevention of spreading "germs"...

truth is what can be proven and tested. the domain of science and logic.

beliefs are untestable unproven. the domain of emotion and religion

i am tolerant of everyone's right to believe what they like and to behave how they like so long as that behavior does not impinge upon the rights and freedoms of others.

if your beliefs involve you telling everyone else about how your belief system (aka religion) is the only right and moral way to live, then I fully support the right of others to point out the irony when members of your religions act in embarassing way.

Mostly though, I believe that you should take nothing so seriously that you can't laugh at yourself and your beliefs.
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Old 02-08-2014, 06:52 PM   #67
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Default Re: Connor booed at upstate Christian concert

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You're saying God has destined them to be there and un reached by the gospel.
sorry for the confusion. its not that i believe it but that the teachings of evangelical christians are that god has destined them to be born where and when they are. ("before i formed you in the womb, i knew you") I was pointing out that this combined with the notion of only one possible (and regionally isolated) way to avoid punishment conflict with the idea of a loving god.
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Old 02-08-2014, 06:56 PM   #68
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Default Re: Connor booed at upstate Christian concert

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a fist bump sounds fine, but as a virolgist i got to tell you that its not going to help with the prevention of spreading "germs"...

truth is what can be proven and tested. the domain of science and logic.

beliefs are untestable unproven. the domain of emotion and religion

i am tolerant of everyone's right to believe what they like and to behave how they like so long as that behavior does not impinge upon the rights and freedoms of others.

if your beliefs involve you telling everyone else about how your belief system (aka religion) is the only right and moral way to live, then I fully support the right of others to point out the irony when members of your religions act in embarassing way.

Mostly though, I believe that you should take nothing so seriously that you can't laugh at yourself and your beliefs.
I don't understand how someone can't prove that what they say they don't believe in doesn't exist.

Virology is very interesting.
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:01 PM   #69
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Default Re: Connor booed at upstate Christian concert

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I don't understand how someone can't prove that what they say they don't believe in doesn't exist.

Virology is very interesting.
i do not understand your first sentence and as a result cannot help your confusion. sorry
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:03 PM   #70
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Default Re: Connor booed at upstate Christian concert

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sorry for the confusion. its not that i believe it but that the teachings of evangelical christians are that god has destined them to be born where and when they are. ("before i formed you in the womb, i knew you") I was pointing out that this combined with the notion of only one possible (and regionally isolated) way to avoid punishment conflict with the idea of a loving god.
I dont necessarily believe that God has destined someone to where they are born and when they are.. I believe that God has given free will unto stuff like that.. But at the same time he knows where and when we will be born because he is an all knowing God. We are starting to get into a really deep theological topic; one that I dont understand fully and dont know if I will ever fully understand it. So in saying that I dont feel comfortable talking about it and possibly saying something that is misguiding.
To those who want to comment about how Christians dont know their stuff I am in school right now studying this stuff, so I hope this is a respectable reason for me to end this discussion
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:12 PM   #71
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Default Re: Connor booed at upstate Christian concert

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I dont necessarily believe that God has destined someone to where they are born and when they are.. I believe that God has given free will unto stuff like that.. But at the same time he knows where and when we will be born because he is an all knowing God. We are starting to get into a really deep theological topic; one that I dont understand fully and dont know if I will ever fully understand it. So in saying that I dont feel comfortable talking about it and possibly saying something that is misguiding.
To those who want to comment about how Christians dont know their stuff I am in school right now studying this stuff, so I hope this is a respectable reason for me to end this discussion
how did you exercise your free will to decide where you were born?
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:16 PM   #72
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Default Re: Connor booed at upstate Christian concert

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Wait so you're one of the few christians who believes that christians have no reason to tell other people how to live their lives or who/if to worship? If so i'd like to shake your hand because your a true ambassador for your beliefs. If however you believe that only your religious views are correct and all other views will get you deservedly punished (sent to hell), then believe it or not that means you consider yourself morally superior. Its this belief in moral superiority that gets christians mocked when one of the flock acts up.its not an intolerance of cchristians specifically, its an intolerance of people who act/think they are better than everyone else.
Consider the possibility that God is real and his Words are Truth and that can be proven so completely that you have no choice but believe it and tell others about it. Maybe that is why some people speak out concerning your comments.

Consider the story of Cambridge-educated C. S. Lewis (Chronicles of Narnia, Etc.). At 15 he was an atheist – he was sure God did not exist, although he admitted he wished He did. Over a period of time he began to open his mind to the possibility that he may be wrong. Friends of his, including J. R. R. Tolkien (Lord of the Rings, Etc.), were happy to talk with him about his doubts. He fought the conclusion that he was wrong but felt that the evidence was too great to reject it. Finally he converted after, "kicking, struggling, resentful, and darting his eyes in every direction for a chance to escape." He wrote his book Surprised by Joy (the title says it all), to describe this experience. He wrote and said that night he became, “the most dejected and reluctant convert in all England.” This atheist proved for himself that God is real and he was compelled by proven Truth to follow Him, and tell others.





Note to moderators - the only quotes used are noted and are those of C S Lewis from his published writings. Other words were paraphrased from Wikipedia.
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:19 PM   #73
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Default Re: Connor booed at upstate Christian concert

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how did you exercise your free will to decide where you were born?
You have free will to do what you want on this earth as long as a human doesn't stop you.. weather I want my kid to be born in america or africa I can choose as long as laws dont stop me
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:32 PM   #74
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Default Re: Connor booed at upstate Christian concert

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Consider the possibility that God is real and his Words are Truth and that can be proven so completely that you have no choice but believe it and tell others about it. Maybe that is why some people speak out concerning your comments.

Consider the story of Cambridge-educated C. S. Lewis (Chronicles of Narnia, Etc.). At 15 he was an atheist – he was sure God did not exist, although he admitted he wished He did. Over a period of time he began to open his mind to the possibility that he may be wrong. Friends of his, including J. R. R. Tolkien (Lord of the Rings, Etc.), were happy to talk with him about his doubts. He fought the conclusion that he was wrong but felt that the evidence was too great to reject it. Finally he converted after, "kicking, struggling, resentful, and darting his eyes in every direction for a chance to escape." He wrote his book Surprised by Joy (the title says it all), to describe this experience. He wrote and said that night he became, “the most dejected and reluctant convert in all England.” This atheist proved for himself that God is real and he was compelled by proven Truth to follow Him, and tell others.





Note to moderators - the only quotes used are noted and are those of C S Lewis from his published writings. Other words were paraphrased from Wikipedia.
i consider that i am wrong continually. it is what makes me a good scientist and a bad match for evangelical christianity. how often do you consider the possiblity that you are wrong.

and actually my story is exactly the opposite of cs lewis's. i grew up in the church even went on mission trips into my early twenties, but eventually my logical nature drew me away from the realm of faith and to the realm of provable facts. its not for everyone nor do i think anyone should abandon what is working for them. but for me, christianity required me to forsake too much of my desire for provable testable facts.
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:37 PM   #75
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You have free will to do what you want on this earth as long as a human doesn't stop you.. weather I want my kid to be born in america or africa I can choose as long as laws dont stop me
my point was that you can't choose to be exposed to an idea that you do not know exists. and where you are born limits what ideas you are exposed to. if you have to not only be exposed to christianity, but exclusively evangelical christianity, and furthermore you have to accept it on faith as truth, then essentially all of the people being born in rural china/india are screwed. its why i cannot personally accept the concept of there being only one way to avoid going to hell combined with a loving god. like i've said these are just my beliefs they are only beliefs and not facts so your beliefs are equally reliable as mine.
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:55 PM   #76
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Default Re: Connor booed at upstate Christian concert

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Old 02-08-2014, 07:57 PM   #77
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Default Re: Connor booed at upstate Christian concert

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my point was that you can't choose to be exposed to an idea that you do not know exists. and where you are born limits what ideas you are exposed to. if you have to not only be exposed to christianity, but exclusively evangelical christianity, and furthermore you have to accept it on faith as truth, then essentially all of the people being born in rural china/india are screwed. its why i cannot personally accept the concept of there being only one way to avoid going to hell combined with a loving god. like i've said these are just my beliefs they are only beliefs and not facts so your beliefs are equally reliable as mine.
My beliefs are facts backed up by the bible but also historical evidence outside the bible that supports it as truth
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Old 02-08-2014, 08:05 PM   #78
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Default Re: Connor booed at upstate Christian concert

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Originally Posted by Cockdiesel7 View Post
My beliefs are facts backed up by the bible but also historical evidence outside the bible that supports it as truth
don't your beliefs come from the bible? assuming that is true, then saying the bible supports your beliefs is a bit circular. as for historical evidence outside of the bible, there is probably more that contradicts the stories in the bible than support it. but as long as you separate what you believe to be true from what you can prove to be true it doesn't really matter. believe anything you like, as long as it doesnt impinge on anyone else's ability to believe what they want to believe.
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Old 02-08-2014, 08:07 PM   #79
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Default Re: Connor booed at upstate Christian concert

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Originally Posted by Gamecocks321 View Post
How is this thread not locked?
I'll hope that its because everyone is being nice and civil with one another, but its more likely that the moderators that ban any discussion that isn't blindly prochristian are not logged in right now.
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Old 02-08-2014, 08:07 PM   #80
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Default Re: Connor booed at upstate Christian concert

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Originally Posted by sporkgod50 View Post
i consider that i am wrong continually. it is what makes me a good scientist and a bad match for evangelical christianity. how often do you consider the possiblity that you are wrong.

and actually my story is exactly the opposite of cs lewis's. i grew up in the church even went on mission trips into my early twenties, but eventually my logical nature drew me away from the realm of faith and to the realm of provable facts. its not for everyone nor do i think anyone should abandon what is working for them. but for me, christianity required me to forsake too much of my desire for provable testable facts.
Actually your story is different, but not "exactly opposite." Lewis also grew up in the church, and then became an atheist at 15. Years later he was willing to re-examine his belief in God and well-versed, scientific-minded friends, including Tolkien helped in that endeavor. You seem to be a student of religious thought. I am thinking you might want to read Lewis' Mere Christianity. You may be able to identify with Lewis' experience. Lewis had a regular radio show in England and addressed many of the points you have expressed.
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