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Old 02-09-2014, 07:05 PM   #161
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Default Re: **USC vs. Tennessee GAME Thread**

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I have followed for a long time. Did not miss a game while I was in school. Martin has shown he ca recruit, yes. But I am not sold on him as a coach or a developer of talent. KState had a lot of talent while he was there, talent can cover up coaching, look at Ohio state the past few years. At this point the the season the freshman label does not apply. Fact is the kids still play way to tense. Look at the tam game, they played loose and ran away with it. They have not played the same way since. Too many blow outs. For those who say the players should get tougher skin or whatever to deal with Martin, I ask this, shouldn't a good coach know when to change his style to the players he has? He recruited these kids to play, so he can not blame not having the talent he wants.

Feel free to attack and slam me all you guys want, but ask yourselves this, has the team really improved since game one of the season ?
I think he is doing a great job developing Thornwell and Notice, to only two worth mentioning.
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Old 02-09-2014, 08:21 PM   #162
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Default Re: **USC vs. Tennessee GAME Thread**

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I have followed for a long time. Did not miss a game while I was in school. Martin has shown he ca recruit, yes. But I am not sold on him as a coach or a developer of talent. KState had a lot of talent while he was there, talent can cover up coaching, look at Ohio state the past few years. At this point the the season the freshman label does not apply. Fact is the kids still play way to tense. Look at the tam game, they played loose and ran away with it. They have not played the same way since. Too many blow outs. For those who say the players should get tougher skin or whatever to deal with Martin, I ask this, shouldn't a good coach know when to change his style to the players he has? He recruited these kids to play, so he can not blame not having the talent he wants.

Feel free to attack and slam me all you guys want, but ask yourselves this, has the team really improved since game one of the season ?
I agree with a lot of your points. However, I will say that he recruited the kids he did because they responded to him, and wanted to be a part of his system. (not all of our players are his recruits obviously) They knew exactly what kind of coaching style he uses. The excuse that they just don't respond well to his in your face style of coaching is really just that, another excuse, IMO. The bottom line is that we still do not have enough decent, much less good players to put on the court. Yes, experience will help in the coming years, but we just have to hope recruiting continues to improve or else our team will remain the worst in the sec. We can't have the "problem" of talent covering up coaching without the talent.
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Old 02-09-2014, 08:38 PM   #163
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Default Re: **USC vs. Tennessee GAME Thread**

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A very mature and well thought out answer.

It's a simple question, why is he the man for the job?
I try to avoid feeding the trolls.
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Old 02-09-2014, 08:55 PM   #164
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Default Re: **USC vs. Tennessee GAME Thread**

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I try to avoid feeding the trolls.
Been around here a lot longer than you, I am no troll. But if you can't have an honest discussion about the program with out negative comments about another poster, so be it.
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Old 02-09-2014, 08:56 PM   #165
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Default Re: **USC vs. Tennessee GAME Thread**

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I agree with a lot of your points. However, I will say that he recruited the kids he did because they responded to him, and wanted to be a part of his system. (not all of our players are his recruits obviously) They knew exactly what kind of coaching style he uses. The excuse that they just don't respond well to his in your face style of coaching is really just that, another excuse, IMO. The bottom line is that we still do not have enough decent, much less good players to put on the court. Yes, experience will help in the coming years, but we just have to hope recruiting continues to improve or else our team will remain the worst in the sec. We can't have the "problem" of talent covering up coaching without the talent.
Oh I know they knew what they were getting into, however my point stands, if they are not responding it is the coaches job to figure out how to get them to respond.
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Last edited by SCohioBoy; 02-09-2014 at 09:37 PM.
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Old 02-09-2014, 11:29 PM   #166
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Default Re: **USC vs. Tennessee GAME Thread**

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Been around here a lot longer than you, I am no troll. But if you can't have an honest discussion about the program with out negative comments about another poster, so be it.
The been around longer point has nothing to do with the fact that you're trolling this board for someone to argue with over Frank Martin. It's not a discussion you're looking for and you know it.
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Old 02-10-2014, 07:28 AM   #167
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Default Re: **USC vs. Tennessee GAME Thread**

So another words you can't try and convince someone why he is the right person for the job?
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:38 AM   #168
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Default Re: **USC vs. Tennessee GAME Thread**

I think anybody already passing judgment on Martin halfway through his second season is reaching. He has absolutely NOTHING to work with on the roster, not to mention the loss of Ellington and Johnson. Martin inherited a dumpster fire. It is going to take him time to fix it.
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:43 AM   #169
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Default Re: **USC vs. Tennessee GAME Thread**

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I think anybody already passing judgment on Martin halfway through his second season is reaching. He has absolutely NOTHING to work with on the roster, not to mention the loss of Ellington and Johnson. Martin inherited a dumpster fire. It is going to take him time to fix it.
But have we honestly seen any improvement this year?
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:59 AM   #170
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Default Re: **USC vs. Tennessee GAME Thread**

Clemson went 13-18(5 and 13 in conference) in Brownell's third year(I think). In his fourth year, they are 15-7(6 and 4 in conference) with a win over #16 Duke. Let's be honest here, Clemson does not have a good offense but they don't have too with the defense they play. Anyway, they play in a great basketball conference and have vastly improved. It took brownell 4 years to do it, but he's getting it done. Frank isn't even 2 years into his tenure, you guys seriously have to give it time. Spurrier didn't change the football team in one year. Very few people do.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:04 AM   #171
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Default Re: **USC vs. Tennessee GAME Thread**

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Clemson went 13-18(5 and 13 in conference) in Brownell's third year(I think). In his fourth year, they are 15-7(6 and 4 in conference) with a win over #16 Duke. Let's be honest here, Clemson does not have a good offense but they don't have too with the defense they play. Anyway, they play in a great basketball conference and have vastly improved. It took brownell 4 years to do it, but he's getting it done. Frank isn't even 2 years into his tenure, you guys seriously have to give it time. Spurrier didn't change the football team in one year. Very few people do.
22-12 his first year, not sure that it is a fair comparison.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:06 AM   #172
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Default Re: **USC vs. Tennessee GAME Thread**

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22-12 his first year, not sure that it is a fair comparison.
Well he did inherit a team that had gone to the ncaa tournament the three years prior to him being there. Frank got.. Well he got a joke of a team.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:18 AM   #173
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Default Re: **USC vs. Tennessee GAME Thread**

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Well he did inherit a team that had gone to the ncaa tournament the three years prior to him being there. Frank got.. Well he got a joke of a team.
Joke of a team or a underachiving team? Roman Galloway was great at LaSalle. We all can agree Horn ran things into the ground.

But I think the nail was hit on the head, FM didn't inherit a tournament team, like he did at KState. He has no track record of program building, which is what we needed. Martin was able to take what Huggins put in at KState, Beasley, Sutton, Pullen, Walker, and run with it. He was going to get run out of town and we landed him.

Look I hope he can turn this around, but it is not looking like he can, IMO he was the wrong hire. I am all for giving him another year, maybe two, but he really needs to show improvement, as a coach, and on the court.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:26 AM   #174
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Default Re: **USC vs. Tennessee GAME Thread**

The time to judge Frank Martin hasn't yet arrived. The program was in ashes. Ruins. He needs four years. If we had a better history, a coach might achieve the turnaround in 2-3 years. We're nobody in college basketball. It takes time.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:33 AM   #175
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Default Re: **USC vs. Tennessee GAME Thread**

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The time to judge Frank Martin hasn't yet arrived. The program was in ashes. Ruins. He needs four years. If we had a better history, a coach might achieve the turnaround in 2-3 years. We're nobody in college basketball. It takes time.

In year 2 you should be able to see marked improvement, look at SMU and Larry Brown. They moved into a tougher conference, Cincy, Memp, Louis, and have made great strides this year.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:46 AM   #176
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Default Re: **USC vs. Tennessee GAME Thread**

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So another words you can't try and convince someone why he is the right person for the job?


So another words........
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:49 AM   #177
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Default Re: **USC vs. Tennessee GAME Thread**

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In year 2 you should be able to see marked improvement, look at SMU and Larry Brown. They moved into a tougher conference, Cincy, Memp, Louis, and have made great strides this year.
Makes a terrible attempt to compare basketball programs that are not alike at all.

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Old 02-10-2014, 09:53 AM   #178
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Default Re: **USC vs. Tennessee GAME Thread**

Bait, you add a lot to the conversation! Which program would you like to compare ours too? SMU is a pretty fair comparison. Both programs have some history, nothing too recent, though Carolina's program has been better over the long run.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:53 AM   #179
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Default Re: **USC vs. Tennessee GAME Thread**

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Joke of a team or a underachiving team? Roman Galloway was great at LaSalle. We all can agree Horn ran things into the ground.

But I think the nail was hit on the head, FM didn't inherit a tournament team, like he did at KState. He has no track record of program building, which is what we needed. Martin was able to take what Huggins put in at KState, Beasley, Sutton, Pullen, Walker, and run with it. He was going to get run out of town and we landed him.

Look I hope he can turn this around, but it is not looking like he can, IMO he was the wrong hire. I am all for giving him another year, maybe two, but he really needs to show improvement, as a coach, and on the court.
Says Frank Martin can't do it before allowing enough time to have a veteran team like he had over the years at Kansas State. Mad that Frank sustained success after Huggins left, but maintains that Martin can't coach. Bases the rest of his logic on internet rumors and hearsay.

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Old 02-10-2014, 09:57 AM   #180
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Default Re: **USC vs. Tennessee GAME Thread**

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22-12 his first year, not sure that it is a fair comparison.
Doesn't like the Brownell comparison.... Probably would hate to see Coach K's record.

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