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Old 01-05-2014, 09:31 PM   #61
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Default Re: Perry Dozier Jr. (2015 Prospect)

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Originally Posted by Cockhornleghorn View Post
We had 10's of thousands of empty seats at WB in Brad Scott's last season. The tickets may have been sold, but people weren't showing up. I'm tired of seeing that falsehood continue to be used as truth.
We averaged 74,744 in '98 & 78,272 in '99. I was there for every one of those games and while there may have been a lot of no shows especially in Scott's last few games, the crowds were there and vocal. In fact, there was so little to cheer about offensively during Lou's first year, the "another Carolina first down" cheer became popular that year.
My point is valid in that no matter what the actual football attendance, it was well over the 10-25% of capacity that the basketball team currently plays in front of.
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Old 01-06-2014, 10:45 AM   #62
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Default Re: Perry Dozier Jr. (2015 Prospect)

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According to Carey Rich, we will be finalists for both Wood & Dozier because of Coach Martin and the relationship that he has developed with them; however, these kids go to the games at the CLA and see how pitiful the support is and Rich thinks that this will hurt us in the long run. We filled up the Brice when we were 0-11 and we will have more people at football scrimmages than will attend a basketball game. There s/b enough fans within a 5 mile radius of the CLA to have at least 10000 against a nothing opponent.
And your typical Gamecock fan will say

"I'll support the team and go to games when dey start winnin!!!"

These morons don't realize that they're hurting the chances of getting good recruits and providing a homecourt advantage for players to feed off by not going to games. I love my school, but our overall fanbase sucks. It's so fairweather. I don't understand why people can't just support the team like they do the football squad. If the Gamecocks went 7-6 or 4-8, Williams Brice would still be packed. CLA cost a mint to build and is one of the nicest looking arenas in the conference. Plus we have one of the best coaches in college basketball in Frank Martin. I don't think people realize how INSANELY LUCKY we are to have him. He could have went anywhere in the country and chose our program.

If we don't get Dozier or Woods because of the lack of support at games, I'm going to be pissed. Frank is trying, the players are trying, but the fanbase is not.
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Old 01-06-2014, 01:55 PM   #63
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Default Re: Perry Dozier Jr. (2015 Prospect)

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Originally Posted by TwoNotch Dreams View Post
And your typical Gamecock fan will say

"I'll support the team and go to games when dey start winnin!!!"

These morons don't realize that they're hurting the chances of getting good recruits and providing a homecourt advantage for players to feed off by not going to games. I love my school, but our overall fanbase sucks. It's so fairweather. I don't understand why people can't just support the team like they do the football squad. If the Gamecocks went 7-6 or 4-8, Williams Brice would still be packed. CLA cost a mint to build and is one of the nicest looking arenas in the conference. Plus we have one of the best coaches in college basketball in Frank Martin. I don't think people realize how INSANELY LUCKY we are to have him. He could have went anywhere in the country and chose our program.

If we don't get Dozier or Woods because of the lack of support at games, I'm going to be pissed. Frank is trying, the players are trying, but the fanbase is not.
lack of fan support makes the recruit think, if the fans don't want to come watch South Carolina basketball, then why should I come here.

The pieces for a successful program are in place, the only thing we need is for people to actually start showing up.

Last edited by Truly Cocky; 01-10-2014 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 01-06-2014, 06:32 PM   #64
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Default Re: Perry Dozier Jr. (2015 Prospect)

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And your typical Gamecock fan will say

"I'll support the team and go to games when dey start winnin!!!"

These morons don't realize that they're hurting the chances of getting good recruits and providing a homecourt advantage for players to feed off by not going to games. I love my school, but our overall fanbase sucks. It's so fairweather. I don't understand why people can't just support the team like they do the football squad. If the Gamecocks went 7-6 or 4-8, Williams Brice would still be packed. CLA cost a mint to build and is one of the nicest looking arenas in the conference. Plus we have one of the best coaches in college basketball in Frank Martin. I don't think people realize how INSANELY LUCKY we are to have him. He could have went anywhere in the country and chose our program.

If we don't get Dozier or Woods because of the lack of support at games, I'm going to be pissed. Frank is trying, the players are trying, but the fanbase is not.
Exactly right. USC has way too many fair weather fans.
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Old 01-06-2014, 06:38 PM   #65
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Default Re: Perry Dozier Jr. (2015 Prospect)

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And your typical Gamecock fan will say

"I'll support the team and go to games when dey start winnin!!!"

These morons don't realize that they're hurting the chances of getting good recruits and providing a homecourt advantage for players to feed off by not going to games. I love my school, but our overall fanbase sucks. It's so fairweather. I don't understand why people can't just support the team like they do the football squad. If the Gamecocks went 7-6 or 4-8, Williams Brice would still be packed. CLA cost a mint to build and is one of the nicest looking arenas in the conference. Plus we have one of the best coaches in college basketball in Frank Martin. I don't think people realize how INSANELY LUCKY we are to have him. He could have went anywhere in the country and chose our program.

If we don't get Dozier or Woods because of the lack of support at games, I'm going to be pissed. Frank is trying, the players are trying, but the fanbase is not.

How many programs still pack their arena despite having not been relevant for 40 years? I can't think of one. Just like the attendence for our women's basketball team has been steadily rising stemming from our success, our men's team will see more people show up the more they win.
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Old 01-06-2014, 08:56 PM   #66
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Default Re: Perry Dozier Jr. (2015 Prospect)

We have had instances over the years where our fans came out in droves: when Eddie Fogler got our program to contend for SEC titles for 2-3 seasons, we overflowed Carolina Coliseum (12K-13K capacity). It was the impetus in part for the construction of CLA. When CLA opened up the novelty and state-of-the-art aspect of it attracted a lot of fans (the losing record of the Gamecocks that season couldn't have helped much), but also Dave Odom had the team at least contending for 20+ win seasons and winning conference records over the next 3 seasons, and that kept the fans filling the seats.

In the 2003-04 season (we went 23-11 and 8-8 in SEC), we averaged 12K+ overall and 17K+ for SEC games. We pretty much sold out every conference home game. We regularly averaged 10K-12K capacities under Odom's final years even as the program started to decline. In Horn's 1st season, when the wins started to pile up and it looked like we were going to have a special season, the fans showed up again: we sold out games vs UGA and UT, and had 16K+ capacities vs Clemson, Arkansas, and UK to push the season average to just under 12K again. And did it again in 2009-10 with the excitement of a returning co-SEC East team: before the injury to Archie and departure of Holmes, we were bringing 10,000+ fans in for early season games versus Alabama A&M, Georgia Southern, Jacksonville and Western Ky.

In other words, despite mostly having struggles for decades, when USC puts together a solid winning team - not a nationally ranked or relevant team, not even necessarily a NCAA tourney team - that's competitive, we'll put 10,000+ fannies into our arena and even come close to selling out the house against SEC foes. We just need to see positive direction within the team, with discipline and effort. Ten thousand fans in CLA may not be 18,000, but they will have it towards ear-busting volumes and present the atmosphere we need for the next level. But we need to give the fans hope...
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Old 01-06-2014, 09:09 PM   #67
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Default Re: Perry Dozier Jr. (2015 Prospect)

When, not if, Frank rebuilds the team, the butts will start to show up again. I don't think failure or even mediocrity is in his DNA.
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Old 01-06-2014, 09:17 PM   #68
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Default Re: Perry Dozier Jr. (2015 Prospect)

There are, at most, 8 home football games every year. They are almost always on a weekend (except for that one Thursday game we tend to play every year) How many basketball games are there? Football is a social event, when the weather is typically really nice to be outside, with girls in black dresses, drinking with your friends. Basketball is played in the winter and you can't tailgate for it. Plus our team has been really bad, and not even entertainingly bad, the past few years.

Stop acting shocked that football draws WAY more than basketball.
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Old 01-07-2014, 01:05 PM   #69
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Default Re: Perry Dozier Jr. (2015 Prospect)

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How many programs still pack their arena despite having not been relevant for 40 years? I can't think of one. Just like the attendence for our women's basketball team has been steadily rising stemming from our success, our men's team will see more people show up the more they win.
Plenty of them do. Kentucky was still selling out Rupp when they were struggling. People are showing up to the women's games all of a sudden because they are fairweather. I guarantee you if the women's team started losing games next season, people would stop supporting.

The core of improving a program starts with fan support. Big recruits want to play in a great atmosphere with fans who support the team and will cheer them on. Who wants to play in front of 6,000-8,000 people in dead silence while Gamecock Jesus stomps his feet? Homecourt advantage matters and it can change the tide of a game. We would not have beat Kentucky 4 years ago if the arena was empty. That atmosphere with 18,000 in attendance changed the game. There's no chance Martin could take Seventh or Dozier to a game right now and convince them that we have a great atmosphere and fanbase. They would roll their eyes and want to go to Chapel Hill or Lawrence.

Why is it so hard to show up and support the school? If you want to see them get better, that's all you have to do.
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Old 01-07-2014, 01:14 PM   #70
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Default Re: Perry Dozier Jr. (2015 Prospect)

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There are, at most, 8 home football games every year. They are almost always on a weekend (except for that one Thursday game we tend to play every year) How many basketball games are there? Football is a social event, when the weather is typically really nice to be outside, with girls in black dresses, drinking with your friends. Basketball is played in the winter and you can't tailgate for it. Plus our team has been really bad, and not even entertainingly bad, the past few years.

Stop acting shocked that football draws WAY more than basketball.
You're making up excuses. I'm not shocked that more people go to a football game. Football is the most popular sport in America. However, I'm shocked that people don't support every major sport on campus, especially when the Athletics department is TRYING to put on a good product. They built an 18,000 seat arena and hired one of the best coaches in the nation. Hell, they even offer a ton of free food at the game too. They're spoiling you and you don't even know it.

Basketball games are a social event. People just don't go because the team doesn't win. There aren't tailgates or pre-game parties because the team doesn't win. The basketball arena is closer to campus than the football stadium and baseball stadium is. Winters generally aren't even that cold in Columbia (except this year). It takes zero effort to go to a game, Gamecock fans are just fairweather.

The team has been bad in the past because nobody shows up to games to cheer them on. The other reason was bad coaching and recruiting. You expect the team to land big recruits while playing in front of 7,000 people. It makes zero sense. Loyal and good fanbases show up regardless of record.
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Old 01-07-2014, 01:21 PM   #71
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Default Re: Perry Dozier Jr. (2015 Prospect)

Winning puts people in the seats....nothing else, well except beer.

We better do fairly well this year with attendance in basketball. The naming rights to the CLA are coming up after this season if I'm not mistaken, and another poor attendance season will cost the school a lot of money with the bidding process to re-name the CLA.
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Old 01-07-2014, 01:27 PM   #72
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Default Re: Perry Dozier Jr. (2015 Prospect)

Go find a sub .500 or .500 team that sells out their arena every night. I'd be curious to see how many yall can come up with.
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Old 01-07-2014, 01:35 PM   #73
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Default Re: Perry Dozier Jr. (2015 Prospect)

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Go find a sub .500 or .500 team that sells out their arena every night. I'd be curious to see how many yall can come up with.
Is there an attendance database for C-BBall? I found a list that has Top-25 attendance numbers, but nothing that ranks each team in D1. I'm not expecting a sellout every night at CLA, but the arena shouldn't be as quiet and empty as it's traditionally become to be these days. If there's 13K-14K a night, I'd be happy
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Old 01-07-2014, 01:58 PM   #74
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Default Re: Perry Dozier Jr. (2015 Prospect)

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Is there an attendance database for C-BBall? I found a list that has Top-25 attendance numbers, but nothing that ranks each team in D1. I'm not expecting a sellout every night at CLA, but the arena shouldn't be as quiet and empty as it's traditionally become to be these days. If there's 13K-14K a night, I'd be happy
Even to expect those figures for the product we have now is a little over-optimistic, IMO. My point is that I think you would find it hard to find schools that sport a .500 overall record, or sub .500, and pull that kind of attendance (I do acknowledge not every school has a 18K arena so the scale slides).

I also don't disagree that USC fans are fairweather in basketball, but I'd bet a lot of other programs that are in the same boat as us are too. Its just how it is.

If Frank can keep this team around .500 through January, I think you'll see the crowds start to pile in. Especially with the students returning from break and casual fans being over the football high.

But to expect 12-13K, a good start would be to quit losing to the Elon's, USC Upstate, and Manhattan's of the world.
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Old 01-08-2014, 10:58 AM   #75
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Default Re: Perry Dozier Jr. (2015 Prospect)

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Even to expect those figures for the product we have now is a little over-optimistic, IMO. My point is that I think you would find it hard to find schools that sport a .500 overall record, or sub .500, and pull that kind of attendance (I do acknowledge not every school has a 18K arena so the scale slides).

I also don't disagree that USC fans are fairweather in basketball, but I'd bet a lot of other programs that are in the same boat as us are too. Its just how it is.

If Frank can keep this team around .500 through January, I think you'll see the crowds start to pile in. Especially with the students returning from break and casual fans being over the football high.

But to expect 12-13K, a good start would be to quit losing to the Elon's, USC Upstate, and Manhattan's of the world.
It's called homecourt advantage. If the Gamecocks lose to scrub teams in a somewhat-full Colonial Life Arena, then I'll get the point. But when there's no homecourt advantage, you're essentially playing a neutral floor game.

Just give the program a chance. You wanted a great coach? They gave it to you. Bigger arena? Gave that to you too. Free food and prizes at games? All the time. Better recruits? It's been given to you.

Now it's time for fans to do their job and stop being so spoiled and fairweather. You can't possibly expect to land a big fish like Dozier while showing minimal to no support for the program. At this point we're basically hoping that Frank's stature and Dozier's legacy at Carolina will be enough.
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Old 01-10-2014, 10:52 AM   #76
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Default Re: Perry Dozier Jr. (2015 Prospect)

I think after reading all of this, my biggest question is how many games has TwoNotch attended this season.
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Old 02-17-2014, 05:56 PM   #77
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Default Re: Perry Dozier Jr. (2015 Prospect)

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It's called homecourt advantage. If the Gamecocks lose to scrub teams in a somewhat-full Colonial Life Arena, then I'll get the point. But when there's no homecourt advantage, you're essentially playing a neutral floor game.

Just give the program a chance. You wanted a great coach? They gave it to you. Bigger arena? Gave that to you too. Free food and prizes at games? All the time. Better recruits? It's been given to you.

Now it's time for fans to do their job and stop being so spoiled and fairweather. You can't possibly expect to land a big fish like Dozier while showing minimal to no support for the program. At this point we're basically hoping that Frank's stature and Dozier's legacy at Carolina will be enough.
Not everyone wanted a new arena, the main reason for that was concerts. Sorry but teams that don't win can't be expected to be filled, some of us do our parts and go, but I don't blame those for not going
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:43 PM   #78
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Default Re: Perry Dozier Jr. (2015 Prospect)

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Is there an attendance database for C-BBall? I found a list that has Top-25 attendance numbers, but nothing that ranks each team in D1. I'm not expecting a sellout every night at CLA, but the arena shouldn't be as quiet and empty as it's traditionally become to be these days. If there's 13K-14K a night, I'd be happy
This season we are 47th out of 351 schools in average attendance.

http://stats.ncaa.org/rankings?sport...MBB&division=1
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:58 PM   #79
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Default Re: Perry Dozier Jr. (2015 Prospect)

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This season we are 47th out of 351 schools in average attendance.

http://stats.ncaa.org/rankings?sport...MBB&division=1
That says 52, but I'm not sure I believe that we average 9k that says if we fudge stats everyone is
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Old 02-17-2014, 08:10 PM   #80
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Default Re: Perry Dozier Jr. (2015 Prospect)

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Originally Posted by Cockhornleghorn View Post
This season we are 47th out of 351 schools in average attendance.

http://stats.ncaa.org/rankings?sport...MBB&division=1
I read 52nd........ but that still is higher than I thought........

That must be "paid" attendance, or we have a lot of invisible attendee's!
Still have faith in Martin's ability to sell the program.... hope he can do it!

Not sure how close Perry is with his Sister Asia...... hopefully him being a Legacy and Asia already being here will help us!
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