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Old 02-24-2014, 11:00 AM   #41
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

As long as we have terrible post play we will be at the bottom of the league. We're getting almost no production from the post and I'm not seeing much potential from the current post players on the roster. We have zero post players coming in this recruiting class. You can't build a program with awful interior play. Until we drastically upgrade the talent in the post, overall results will be the same. Expect much of the same next season and beyond until we start recruiting and developing quality bigs. Earliest we can perhaps see improvement is 2015-2016 season, and that's IF we bring in some quality bigs who we can QUICKLY develop or we find a diamond in the rough JUCO

Unfortunately we've gotta be patient. My goal is to be a bubble team for the NIT by the 2016-2017 season, maybe a solid NIT team in the 2017-2018 and 2018-2019 seasons
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Old 02-24-2014, 03:20 PM   #42
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

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Originally Posted by superfly View Post
I see you felt like you needed to address everyone who responded but here again I said that is the way I see it. I don't think you are wrong...and I don't think you are right. I just think you have an opinion just like me. If you can see improvement then so be it. I said show me...not tell me. The Martin way of doing things may or may not be the right route to go. I would still have reservations about him because of his anger issues. I am not a win at any cost type of guy. I think his brash ways with out any success here is going to be a turnoff to kids looking at South Carolina. That's old school and it might have worked years ago, but it is frowned on now. I don't think Martin is a bad guy. I know a lot of great people that are wonderful until they get angry. Some can express it in an acceptable manner and some lose it and make it intollerable. I want to see the program succeed as much as you or anyone else but with a degree of pride and stability. Martin is molding young men's lives as well as teaching the game of basketball. I see faults in both of his approaches. He can learn, but for now he teaches.....and for the "God have mercy on my soul" statement....just wow on that one.
IF you even read what his players have said about him, you'd know that they know how much he cares about them. The ones that buy into what he's teaching and are willing to learn and do what he teaches, he shows an immense amount of compassion. He's a fiery guy and the fact that you don't like him yelling at the players is irrelevant. That's his teaching style, and it's not going to stop. Coach K had a guy thinking his name was mothereffer for an entire season so it's not something that's completely gone and it's obviously effective or else it wouldn't be used or allowed to continue. I can't show you something you don't want to see, so you telling me to show you something really doesn't matter to me. Sure I have an opinion, but what you have is this doubt and desire to try to run off another coach because you aren't patient enough for results. And yes, may God have mercy on your soul.
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Old 02-24-2014, 03:22 PM   #43
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

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Originally Posted by TwoNotch Dreams View Post
So much expectations for a team who is playing:

-without their leading scorer and point guard in Ty Johnson
-with 12 total underclassmen

Some of you probably wanted Dawn Staley fired in Year 2. Unless you're a staple program like Syracuse, Duke or someone, it takes time to rebuild a basketball program. If we're in Year 4 or 5 with no progress, then a thread like this makes complete sense.

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Most of the guys that post on here don't understand basketball, how long development takes, the difference between college basketball and high school ball, etc. It's tough to have a fan base that only cares when the team is winning because those folks don't get it. And when we aren't winning they just turn on the coach before he even gets a chance to turn it around.
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Old 02-24-2014, 03:24 PM   #44
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

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As long as we have terrible post play we will be at the bottom of the league. We're getting almost no production from the post and I'm not seeing much potential from the current post players on the roster. We have zero post players coming in this recruiting class. You can't build a program with awful interior play. Until we drastically upgrade the talent in the post, overall results will be the same. Expect much of the same next season and beyond until we start recruiting and developing quality bigs. Earliest we can perhaps see improvement is 2015-2016 season, and that's IF we bring in some quality bigs who we can QUICKLY develop or we find a diamond in the rough JUCO

Unfortunately we've gotta be patient. My goal is to be a bubble team for the NIT by the 2016-2017 season, maybe a solid NIT team in the 2017-2018 and 2018-2019 seasons
I see the growth in L-Chat, Kacinas, and Carrera from year one to year 2. I think Carrera took a while to come around because they started playing him at 3 and trying to develop him into a wing player. Kacinas was useless in SEC play last year, but has made great strides to at least stay on the floor this year. L-Chat is actually in my opinion one of the bright spots in the post. Henry and Ringer should show this same type of progress over the next 2 years and they will start showing up in the stat sheet.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:25 PM   #45
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

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Gill and Harris also didn't want to work at the intensity level that Martin required, they knew they were going to bolt before the ink was dried on Martin's contract.
I think Gill and Harris just wanted to go to a better basketball program. They didn't want to suffer through more losing. Both would be seniors next season if they stayed. Also, their minutes might have dropped since they weren't recruited by the current staff.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:30 PM   #46
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

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Originally Posted by baitandswitch View Post
Most of the guys that post on here don't understand basketball, how long development takes, the difference between college basketball and high school ball, etc. It's tough to have a fan base that only cares when the team is winning because those folks don't get it. And when we aren't winning they just turn on the coach before he even gets a chance to turn it around.
I agree. Columbia overall isn't very basketball-centric and most people here follow the sport casually.

As long as I've been living here in Columbia (19 years), there has never had a consistently good men's basketball program. Fogler and Odom had a few good years a piece, but that's about it. Fans just need to give this thing time. Frank is a very good coach and we have a good mix of young players led by Sindarius Thornwell, who's a star in the making. The only time the Darrin Horn teams showed promise was when Horn was coaching Odom's players.
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:47 PM   #47
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

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I agree. Columbia overall isn't very basketball-centric and most people here follow the sport casually.

As long as I've been living here in Columbia (19 years), there has never had a consistently good men's basketball program. Fogler and Odom had a few good years a piece, but that's about it. Fans just need to give this thing time. Frank is a very good coach and we have a good mix of young players led by Sindarius Thornwell, who's a star in the making. The only time the Darrin Horn teams showed promise was when Horn was coaching Odom's players.
Horn's team showed promise on paper. I mean his recruiting classes were not bad. Arguably if he were still here he'd have a team that would consist of the following top 150 players

Ellington, Harris, Gill, Sheldon Jeter, Leonard, and Slawson. Add Williams to that list and I'd say that was a pretty good core on paper. Unfortunately Jeter didn't stay committed when Horn got fired, and the other guys just never really seemed to develop... of course we're saying give frank longer than 2 years and the guys listed were just finishing their first and second years with the team. Seems pretty fair right?
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:52 PM   #48
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

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IF you even read what his players have said about him, you'd know that they know how much he cares about them. The ones that buy into what he's teaching and are willing to learn and do what he teaches, he shows an immense amount of compassion. He's a fiery guy and the fact that you don't like him yelling at the players is irrelevant. That's his teaching style, and it's not going to stop. Coach K had a guy thinking his name was mothereffer for an entire season so it's not something that's completely gone and it's obviously effective or else it wouldn't be used or allowed to continue. I can't show you something you don't want to see, so you telling me to show you something really doesn't matter to me. Sure I have an opinion, but what you have is this doubt and desire to try to run off another coach because you aren't patient enough for results. And yes, may God have mercy on your soul.
Dude, there is something wrong with you. I have no desire to run off anyone. I have NEVER appreciated being called names and I am sure you would not take being called a motherf%$ker a motivational tool. If you think that is appropriate then that says more about you than it does about me. I guess if God needs to have mercy on someone....it would be you. I see that you have chased everyone one in this thread so wow....you have some issues for sure. Good luck with that....
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Old 02-24-2014, 11:03 PM   #49
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

They are slowly getting better... But the roster is young, and with average talent. Need more players like Thornwell...
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Old 02-25-2014, 02:44 AM   #50
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

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Dude, there is something wrong with you. I have no desire to run off anyone. I have NEVER appreciated being called names and I am sure you would not take being called a motherf%$ker a motivational tool. If you think that is appropriate then that says more about you than it does about me. I guess if God needs to have mercy on someone....it would be you. I see that you have chased everyone one in this thread so wow....you have some issues for sure. Good luck with that....
You clearly haven't watched Billy Madison, or you'd understand where may God have mercy on your soul comes from. Secondly, what is the point of your initial post. You say you don't see Frank as the road map to success. So that would mean you have a better vision for the men's basketball team. This would insinuate that you want to get rid of Frank and move in a different direction. You're most definitely a "doubting Debbie" and the sad part is you say that because you don't wanna be called out for your post. I am entitled to call you out since this is a public message board. You crying over the God have mercy on your soul part makes me laugh. You trying to create a buzz for people to dislike Frank Martin does not make me laugh and I will not support that. And your attempts to try to make me feel bad for responding to you by saying I have issues is pathetic, dude.
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Old 02-25-2014, 02:46 AM   #51
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

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They are slowly getting better... But the roster is young, and with average talent. Need more players like Thornwell...
I agree. I think Stroman is going to be a good one, and it's nice to hear that the staff is impressed with Shaw's work ethic over the past couple months. Have you seen the video for Shamiek Sheppard yet? I hope we land him. He reminds me of McDaniel over at Clem5on.
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Old 02-25-2014, 03:37 AM   #52
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

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Originally Posted by TwoNotch Dreams View Post
I agree. Columbia overall isn't very basketball-centric and most people here follow the sport casually.

As long as I've been living here in Columbia (19 years), there has never had a consistently good men's basketball program. Fogler and Odom had a few good years a piece, but that's about it. Fans just need to give this thing time. Frank is a very good coach and we have a good mix of young players led by Sindarius Thornwell, who's a star in the making. The only time the Darrin Horn teams showed promise was when Horn was coaching Odom's players.
I have to respectfully disagree. High School basketball is very popular in Columbia and any time the Gamecocks give our fans a glimmer of hope, we pack the CLAW. The last time we went to the NCAA's in 2004, we weren't highly seeded and were never ranked in the top 25, but we averaged over 17,000 for home SEC games. That's pretty doggone good support.
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:28 AM   #53
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

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As long as we have terrible post play we will be at the bottom of the league. We're getting almost no production from the post and I'm not seeing much potential from the current post players on the roster. We have zero post players coming in this recruiting class. You can't build a program with awful interior play. Until we drastically upgrade the talent in the post, overall results will be the same. Expect much of the same next season and beyond until we start recruiting and developing quality bigs. Earliest we can perhaps see improvement is 2015-2016 season, and that's IF we bring in some quality bigs who we can QUICKLY develop or we find a diamond in the rough JUCO

Unfortunately we've gotta be patient. My goal is to be a bubble team for the NIT by the 2016-2017 season, maybe a solid NIT team in the 2017-2018 and 2018-2019 seasons
This recruiting class is not complete yet
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:42 AM   #54
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

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Old 02-25-2014, 11:30 AM   #55
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Old 02-25-2014, 01:59 PM   #56
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

For those of you who follow basketball more closely than me- Do you think it's a fair statement to say that in WBB, there is less competition when it comes to recruiting and therefore a slightly easier task to attract and then develop talent?

By that, I mean there are fewer traditionally elite teams in this region to compete with for talent in WBB. In MBB we have Duke, N.Car., UK, and Florida in relatively close proximity to compete with, whereas the Chicks really only have UT (in terms of elite, not to say there aren't other strong programs out there. Thoughts?
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Old 02-25-2014, 02:03 PM   #57
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

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For those of you who follow basketball more closely than me- Do you think it's a fair statement to say that in WBB, there is less competition when it comes to recruiting and therefore a slightly easier task to attract and then develop talent?

By that, I mean there are fewer traditionally elite teams in this region to compete with for talent in WBB. In MBB we have Duke, N.Car., UK, and Florida in relatively close proximity to compete with, whereas the Chicks really only have UT (in terms of elite, not to say there aren't other strong programs out there. Thoughts?
Duke and UNC also have strong Women's programs. UGA and LSU also use to have very strong programs.
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Old 02-25-2014, 02:05 PM   #58
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

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Old 02-25-2014, 02:41 PM   #59
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

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For those of you who follow basketball more closely than me- Do you think it's a fair statement to say that in WBB, there is less competition when it comes to recruiting and therefore a slightly easier task to attract and then develop talent?

By that, I mean there are fewer traditionally elite teams in this region to compete with for talent in WBB. In MBB we have Duke, N.Car., UK, and Florida in relatively close proximity to compete with, whereas the Chicks really only have UT (in terms of elite, not to say there aren't other strong programs out there. Thoughts?
I think the difference is that we have a WNBA Hall of Fame coach, one of the most influential women's basketball players of all time in Dawn Staley and naturally girls look up to her more. She's considered one of the top 15 players in history. It would be like if we went out and hired Larry Bird or Magic Johnson to coach.
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Old 02-25-2014, 02:43 PM   #60
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

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Duke and UNC also have strong Women's programs. UGA and LSU also use to have very strong programs.
Not to mention if you just look around the SEC this season you see multiple ranked teams. Not to mention Dawn is able to recruit nationally. Look at the girls we are recruiting this season. We're going up against Stanford, Baylor, UCONN, every big name out there to get Wilson and these other 5 star prospects.
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