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Old 02-25-2014, 04:24 PM   #61
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfly View Post
...how much better are we now than before ? I understand that there was a downward spiral under Horn and it was a failed staff. The problem is we are no better as a team than we were then. I will accept that Frank Martin had a better resume and has brought in different players but the records are no better and the crowds are still smaller. This is a sport where one or two good players can make a big difference with a good supporting cast but I just don't see that transpiring. I am not a "doubting Debbie" so to speak but when I look into the crystal ball, I don't see Frank as our road map to success. We passed on Greg Marshall twice for what ever reason and the guy has produced everywhere and we haven't. If we are better off now than we were under Horn (and I am no Horn fan by a long shot ) then please explain how ? I think we made the wrong hire twice and the next time we need to get it right. Don't give me the "Rome wasn't built in a day " crap. We are not building Rome.....
Good post. No, we are not getting better. We have very few athletic players on our team, our frontcourt is awful. The team does play tight and for a reason.
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Old 02-25-2014, 05:53 PM   #62
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

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Originally Posted by superfly View Post
...how much better are we now than before ? I understand that there was a downward spiral under Horn and it was a failed staff. The problem is we are no better as a team than we were then. I will accept that Frank Martin had a better resume and has brought in different players but the records are no better and the crowds are still smaller. This is a sport where one or two good players can make a big difference with a good supporting cast but I just don't see that transpiring. I am not a "doubting Debbie" so to speak but when I look into the crystal ball, I don't see Frank as our road map to success. We passed on Greg Marshall twice for what ever reason and the guy has produced everywhere and we haven't. If we are better off now than we were under Horn (and I am no Horn fan by a long shot ) then please explain how ? I think we made the wrong hire twice and the next time we need to get it right. Don't give me the "Rome wasn't built in a day " crap. We are not building Rome.....
Not to make excuses, but he took a team that wasn't very good, lost his most experienced player and his backup. Take the top 2 point guards from any NCAA team, and see what happens. Take VanVleet and whoever his backup is from the Shockers.

I wanted Marshall before and after we announced Horn. Wanted him before we announce Martin. Do you think FR class will accomplish more that any class Horn recruited? If your answer to that question is no, then maybe you are right. I don't see how you can watch these FR and not see a talent upgrade.
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Old 02-25-2014, 06:31 PM   #63
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

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Originally Posted by Spur20001 View Post
Good post. No, we are not getting better. We have very few athletic players on our team, our frontcourt is awful. The team does play tight and for a reason.
it's all about development. you're delusional if you thought 7 freshmen would come in here and win games.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:47 PM   #64
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

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Originally Posted by baitandswitch View Post
it's all about development. you're delusional if you thought 7 freshmen would come in here and win games.
Not delusional at all. We are not a very talented team. And how much, if any, have our 2nd year players developed? How much athletic talent do we have with our post players?
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:55 PM   #65
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

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Originally Posted by Spur20001 View Post
Not delusional at all. We are not a very talented team. And how much, if any, have our 2nd year players developed? How much athletic talent do we have with our post players?
Brenton Williams has been more consistent this season.

Kacinas completely disappeared last year during SEC play, and here he is getting the majority of the moments. Carrera was moved to 3 which would explain the lack of progress made by him at 4. And if you haven't seen L-Chat's development then you're not watching games. For you to sit here and tell me that you don't see development just has me convinced that all you do is log into the message board and check the score. How much athletic talent do we have? Seriously? If Frank thinks a kid will work in his system he'll get a scholarship. Frank isn't going to hand out a scholarship to any Joe Schmoe that is 6'8 or above. I don't care if you think we aren't talented. You aren't any basketball coach or any kind of guy that understands how to develop guys. At least take some time to notice that our guys are going up against guys that have been in a collegiate conditioning program for longer than half a season in SEC play.
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:06 PM   #66
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

I will not give up on our young team. It will take time, IMO and they will be fine.

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Old 02-25-2014, 09:36 PM   #67
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

I know we're not winning many games right now, but if someone can watch this this team play now and not think they're better than last year, I don't know what that person is thinking. Why anyone would have expected a near instant transformation with a roster full of underclassmen is beyond me. I might not know much, but I know that's not how it works.

The team has gotten much better at understanding what Frank wants out of them and they're trying to execute it They're extremely close to getting over the hump that's kept them from winning many of the closer games. Next year I expect we'll see significant improvement in the win-loss department, but the following year, when Thornwell and Notice are the upperclassmen leaders, if we're not at least a bubble team then maybe we can start thinking something is wrong. Until then, despite the current poor record, it looks to me like we're right on track.

Of course I'm only a fan, not an expert or an analyst or anything like that, so what do I know.
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:41 PM   #68
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

Let me throw my $0.02 into this discussion:

In my opinion, the team has improved from last year and even from the beginning of the year until now. I know some people here don't put much stock into the advanced stats, but for those that do: our offensive and defensive efficiency ratings are better this year than last year, our shooting percentages (both FG and 3FG) are better than last year (and if you were wondering, both percentages are better than last year even if you take out Brenton's hot shooting), and our opponents' shooting percentages (both FG and 3FG) are worse than last year. The numbers aren't staggeringly better, but they are better and if this becomes a trend from year to year, the wins will come.

As for the "eye test", I can see improvement. Some of the freshmen are really raw (Henry, Shaw, Ringer, McKie, Theus) and could have used a redshirt year, but that wasn't a possibility due to numbers and depth. I can really see the improvement in Kacinas. He's turning into a "glue" guy that every team needs. He rebounds well, is playing better defensively, plays within the flow of the offense, and works hard on screens for the wing players. LChat still has a lot to work on, but he doesn't look like a deer in the headlights anymore and can at least hold his own defensively. One of the things that really hurt the team was losing Johnson. He was the best ballhandler and a decent scorer. He's really been missed in games like against Arkansas where the defensive pressure got to Notice and Thornwell at times.

I'm not going to suggest we're going to be competing for the conference championship next year, but with the development you would expect to occur over the offseason, I don't think going .500 in conference games would be a stretch. Not saying that will happen, but I think we will have a good chance to get there.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:49 AM   #69
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

Horn is reaching Brad Scott status
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Old 02-26-2014, 07:47 AM   #70
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

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Horn is reaching Brad Scott status
The garnet army..i bet students feel suckered. horn riding around in that hummer was ridiculous but he pulled it off.
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Old 02-26-2014, 07:51 AM   #71
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

Ill consider the possibility of a good team when frank gets a couple decent big men..that wont ever happen.
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Old 02-26-2014, 09:20 AM   #72
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

Coach Martin, I agree 100%:

"Fans, it's their money, their time, their emotions," Martin said. "They have to determine when they want to sacrifice those three things to become part of it. The fans I don't want to get on board are the ones who sit back and criticize our kids right now. They can stay home.

"Fans who are right now sitting back and they're still not ready to jump on board, I get it. We have a great number who are. I have an unbelievable responsibility to this school and those fans to make sure this program is built and is built for the long haul.

"The ones that want to sit back and criticize, they can stay home. I really don't care if they ever show up. But the ones that are impartial, it's our job to earn their trust, to earn their willingness to give us that time and emotion that fans have to give. At the end of the day, our business does not work if it's not for fans. It's our jobs to make them proud to be a part of what we do."
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Old 02-26-2014, 09:29 AM   #73
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

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The garnet army..i bet students feel suckered. horn riding around in that hummer was ridiculous but he pulled it off.
I still wear my garnet camo Garnet Army shirt. I always liked those.
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Old 02-26-2014, 09:49 AM   #74
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

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Originally Posted by 2four2Gamecock View Post
Coach Martin, I agree 100%:

"Fans, it's their money, their time, their emotions," Martin said. "They have to determine when they want to sacrifice those three things to become part of it. The fans I don't want to get on board are the ones who sit back and criticize our kids right now. They can stay home.

"Fans who are right now sitting back and they're still not ready to jump on board, I get it. We have a great number who are. I have an unbelievable responsibility to this school and those fans to make sure this program is built and is built for the long haul.

"The ones that want to sit back and criticize, they can stay home. I really don't care if they ever show up. But the ones that are impartial, it's our job to earn their trust, to earn their willingness to give us that time and emotion that fans have to give. At the end of the day, our business does not work if it's not for fans. It's our jobs to make them proud to be a part of what we do."
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Old 02-26-2014, 10:41 AM   #75
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

What's this talk I've heard about L-Chat's great development this season? Aside from a leap in shooting percentage L-Chat's numbers haven't improved at all.

2013-2014
4.3 points per game
3.6 rebounds per game

2012-2013
4.4 points per game
3.2 rebounds per game

Stats in SEC Games

2013-2014
4.8 points per game
3.7 rebounds per game

2012-2013
4.8 points per game
3.8 rebounds per game

Yes, his shooting percentage has gone up dramatically, but we're talking about a guy who averages less than 5 points per game and takes less than 4 shots a game. Last year he was making 1.7 shots per game on 3.7 shots per game; this year he's making 2 shots per game on 3.2 shots per game. I'd equate that to a 1 shot difference per game.

Also, his Free Throw percentage has plummeted this year.

Unfortunately L-Chat is severely limited athletically and I don't see anything suggesting he's developing into anything more than a 4-5 ppg 4 rbg guy. That's not going to get it done in the post.
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Old 02-26-2014, 11:01 AM   #76
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

You would think coach would want to win over every fan with...
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:39 PM   #77
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

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Originally Posted by ipull4usc View Post
What's this talk I've heard about L-Chat's great development this season? Aside from a leap in shooting percentage L-Chat's numbers haven't improved at all.

2013-2014
4.3 points per game
3.6 rebounds per game

2012-2013
4.4 points per game
3.2 rebounds per game

Stats in SEC Games

2013-2014
4.8 points per game
3.7 rebounds per game

2012-2013
4.8 points per game
3.8 rebounds per game

Yes, his shooting percentage has gone up dramatically, but we're talking about a guy who averages less than 5 points per game and takes less than 4 shots a game. Last year he was making 1.7 shots per game on 3.7 shots per game; this year he's making 2 shots per game on 3.2 shots per game. I'd equate that to a 1 shot difference per game.

Also, his Free Throw percentage has plummeted this year.

Unfortunately L-Chat is severely limited athletically and I don't see anything suggesting he's developing into anything more than a 4-5 ppg 4 rbg guy. That's not going to get it done in the post.
It's all fine and dandy when you get to pick and choose what stats you want to use so I'm going to do the same thing, ok?

L-Chat Advanced Stats

Player Efficiency Rating was 12.3, this season is 17.8. eFG% last season was .465, this season, is .614, Total Rebound % last season was 14.5, this season is 17.9. Steal % last season 0.6, this season 2.3, Block % last season was 4.8, this season 5.8. His stats are better and he uses 3% less possessions than he did last season. His Offensive rating is 13.7 points higher than last season and his defensive rating is 4 points better than last season. But yeah no improvement whatsoever.
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Old 02-26-2014, 02:56 PM   #78
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

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Gregg Marshall coached at Winthrop and Wichita State he didn't coach at a Power Conference School same as Darrin Horn they are mid major coaches nothing more nothing less. I'm glad we got Coach Martin let the Gregg Marshall stuff die if Hyman didn't go after him he must have had very good reasons.
Yeah, Hyman's reasoning led him to extend Odom's contract and then to hire Darrin Horne as Head Coach.

Make no mistake, Gregg Marshall is the real deal. His success comes from his ability to get the greatest effort from his players. Not some pedigree from a power conference or coaching tree. Marshall would eventually be successful in any conference in the nation.

With all that said. I still think landing Martin as Head Coach was a coup that will eventually bare fruit as well. He just needs a little more time.
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Old 02-26-2014, 02:57 PM   #79
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

If you don't think LChat has improved then you haven't actually watched the games
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Old 02-26-2014, 03:18 PM   #80
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Default Re: In Mens basketball

Seems to be moving in the right direction. Decent froshies.
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