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Old 03-07-2014, 06:52 PM   #381
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Default Re: Frank Martin has been Suspended 1 Game...

The issue is two fold. One, he can't attack an individual player on a personal basis in the presence of the public, tv or otherwise. Getting in a players ass is different than demeaning him. Secondly, these outburst show a lack of personal control that he alluded to in his PC. You can't ask players to be under control when you can't control how you speak to them yourself.

As good of a coach as I think he is, if this doesn't get corrected, he will see players leave, and he will not be able to recruit. Kids will not want to be subjected to that kind of public abuse.
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Old 03-07-2014, 07:04 PM   #382
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Default Re: Frank Martin has been Suspended 1 Game...

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Originally Posted by usc90grad View Post
We knew what type of intense coach we were hiring when we hired Martin. The 1 game suspension is fine with me, but I'd much rather have a coach with fire in him then the laid back coaches without a pulse we've had in the past (Odom, Felton, etc.)

We have sucked for 30+ years in basketball. If you want to stay living in suck land, then hire a mediocre, nice guy coach who will kiss babies and walk old women across the street.

Geez, I bet some people on here would have stroked out if they were Indiana fans when Bobby Knight threw a chair.
No thanks. Dave Odom needs to stay retired.
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Old 03-07-2014, 07:28 PM   #383
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Default Re: Frank Martin has been Suspended 1 Game...

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Old 03-07-2014, 07:32 PM   #384
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Default Re: Frank Martin has been Suspended 1 Game...

Coach Martin has been here for 2 years....This hasn't happened before, to my knowledge. And if so, there was no need to have a press conference. Let Coach Martin and D. Notice square it with each other, let coach sit back and relax for one game, and leave it at that.

That being said, these guys are lucky they aint "pleibes" at a service academy. By now they would have been called all manner of things worse than dog crap, or dumb***.


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Old 03-07-2014, 07:42 PM   #385
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Default Re: Frank Martin has been Suspended 1 Game...

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Originally Posted by cockyva View Post
u still dont get it. it isnt about the language he uses..the guy has been doing that since day one and has been good.

its about the personal attacks and his choice of words. coach k curses like a sailor..what he doesnt do is make it personal with a player..jay bilas confirmed he curses but doesnt embarrass a player personally..

and tanner was tough and had it out sometimes with the team..he didnt however call his llayers out personally with foul language.
I admited later that using other coaches as examples wasn't a good idea. My question to you is did FM do this at previous venues? I'm just saying this I knew this guy had a fire under him when he was hired. This and 2 weeks ago is the first time I heard of personal attacks that were brought to the attention of the public by articles, and a suspension.

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Old 03-07-2014, 08:29 PM   #386
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Default Re: Frank Martin has been Suspended 1 Game...

There was a reason he gave up cursing his last year at k St. He knows it is an issue and he needs to work on it. Which he is
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Old 03-07-2014, 09:04 PM   #387
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Default Re: Frank Martin has been Suspended 1 Game...

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."
- Martin Luther King, Jr.

We are about to find out just how Frank does when it is not so easy and he has to change. If cussing and degrading his players is what made him a great coach then he is in trouble.

I personally think he is a great coach without the cussing and personal attacks against our young student athletes.

Last edited by USCharleston; 03-07-2014 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 03-07-2014, 10:04 PM   #388
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Default Re: Frank Martin has been Suspended 1 Game...

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I couldn't care less what other Universities do to their coaches who cross the same line. I care how we handle it, and Ray handled it correctly, IMO.
Yep Ray handled it so that Ray could be mocked on ESPN along with our fanbase for not being ready for this behavior that is commonplace in the coaching market. I'm sure the recruits we need to bring about change in the program are really going to love this when other schools are throwing it in their faces.

"Hey P.J. and Seventh. You don't wanna go to USC. Frank isn't gonna be there much longer because part of the fan base has already turned on him and the AD won't stand up for him. Look I'm Coach Boeheim. I curse in the middle of the court on national TV against the coach that had one of his former players thinking his name was "Motherf*****" for an entire year, and nothing has happened to us because our AD doesn't mess around in our business."

This is exactly what I want to happen. Glad you don't care though.
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Old 03-07-2014, 10:05 PM   #389
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Default Re: Frank Martin has been Suspended 1 Game...

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He could have baitandswitch on ignore, so might be best to spell it out for him. :)
Oh let's hope not. That's a hurtful thing to do
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Old 03-07-2014, 10:07 PM   #390
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Default Re: Frank Martin has been Suspended 1 Game...

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Coach K does not demean his players. Everyone that says that has no idea what they are talking about. Does he have a foul mouth absolutely. He would not have said answer the fn question ahole. He would have said I said fn answer the fn question duane can you not fn hear me. Would not have called him an ahole or an mfer. Jay Bilas was not the only former player to say this. It is not about the language it is about crossing a line
Do some research on Coach K. there's a deadspin article that talks about how one of his former players thought his name was "motherfu***** for an entire season. But at least he's not demeaning!
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Old 03-08-2014, 10:02 AM   #391
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Default Re: Frank Martin has been Suspended 1 Game...

Some of our a$$hole admin's forced this on Ray and it's complete BS, but it doesn't surprise me one bit. Hopefully, this lights a fire among the players and we win some games in the tourney.

I honestly don't think what he said to Notice was as big of a deal as it has been made out to be by our Admin.

Frank is stepping up to the plate and taking it on the chin. He and his players will be better for it.
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Old 03-08-2014, 10:54 AM   #392
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Default Re: Frank Martin has been Suspended 1 Game...

I like Frank's intensity and desire to win. I want to win in MBB more than any othet sport as it's my favorite. Yelling and getting onto a player is sometimes necessary, but using demeaning language crosses the line. I had to get on a couple of students at the Florida game for crossing the line in the stands. I love to get on the opposing team and coaches, as some of you know, but there are lines you don't cross.
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Old 03-08-2014, 11:21 AM   #393
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Default Re: Frank Martin has been Suspended 1 Game...

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Yep Ray handled it so that Ray could be mocked on ESPN along with our fanbase for not being ready for this behavior that is commonplace in the coaching market. I'm sure the recruits we need to bring about change in the program are really going to love this when other schools are throwing it in their faces.

"Hey P.J. and Seventh. You don't wanna go to USC. Frank isn't gonna be there much longer because part of the fan base has already turned on him and the AD won't stand up for him. Look I'm Coach Boeheim. I curse in the middle of the court on national TV against the coach that had one of his former players thinking his name was "Motherf*****" for an entire year, and nothing has happened to us because our AD doesn't mess around in our business."

This is exactly what I want to happen. Glad you don't care though.
Think we have to worry more about Roy Williams for both PJ and Seventh. I agree with what you're saying though.
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Old 03-08-2014, 12:37 PM   #394
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Default Re: Frank Martin has been Suspended 1 Game...

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Originally Posted by Travelin View Post
Some of our a$$hole admin's forced this on Ray and it's complete BS, but it doesn't surprise me one bit. Hopefully, this lights a fire among the players and we win some games in the tourney.

I honestly don't think what he said to Notice was as big of a deal as it has been made out to be by our Admin.

Frank is stepping up to the plate and taking it on the chin. He and his players will be better for it.
Frank is, indeed, stepping up by admitting he was wrong. Kudos to him.

Ray Tanner made the call. He would totally own the decision to suspend, if asked. That's the type of man he is.

Blaming anonymous boosters and unnamed administrators is complete BS. Just a way for some people to be critical of the suspension without criticizing Ray Tanner or Frank Martin. Don't be that guy.
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Old 03-08-2014, 12:45 PM   #395
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Default Re: Frank Martin has been Suspended 1 Game...

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Frank is, indeed, stepping up by admitting he was wrong. Kudos to him.

Ray Tanner made the call. He would totally own the decision to suspend, if asked. That's the type of man he is.

Blaming anonymous boosters and unnamed administrators is complete BS. Just a way for some people to be critical of the suspension without criticizing Ray Tanner or Frank Martin. Don't be that guy.
I have my opinion for good reason. I may be wrong, but the good ole boys in Columbia have a history of hypocrisy. If this is how they want to run the AD, so be it, but it should hold true across the board.

The delay in making this decision is one reason I feel this way. Two days later and they decide to suspend CFM. That leads me to believe there are more people involved in this decision other than Ray.

Like I said. Just stating my opinion, boss.
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Old 03-08-2014, 12:50 PM   #396
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Default Re: Frank Martin has been Suspended 1 Game...

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There is absolutely no justification for the way Frank verbally abuses his players, and I'm not sorry for my opinion!
I totally agree. We all know that part of the reason he was hired is that he brings a certain "passion" to the game that makes for entertainment. The University is trying to elevate the profile of the program, and Frank is definitely a good coach with a pedigree.

On the other hand, we knew this was going to happen. I would venture to say that there is a line you shouldn't cross, and the intensity of the words is no problem here, it's what he actually said.

Frank has a duty as a coach to set an example and control his tongue. If he cannot maintain that level of discipline, how can he expect his team to show character and perform well under pressure?

It's all about leading by example. I was very much against the Frank Martin hiring, but having said that, I am in his corner now for as long as I believe that he is truly working with Ray on this issue and is repentant.

The more I looked into Frank's history the more I discovered that he has a very deep commitment to his players. I think he gives 110% to the team. That can drain a person, especially when we've been losing badly.

Still, there is no room for excusing what he did. He needs to apologize to the young man and that kid's family and then move on with a deeper commitment to showing character first.

Frank reminds me of the best coach I ever had. He was the scariest dude I've ever met -- most intense person and cursed like a sailor nonstop, getting up in your face, etc. I had to deal with that on our JV team and yet I could handle it and the team loved this coach because he made us a great team. We were tenacious and never ever quit.

Frank is that kind of coach. I still believe that he has a moral and job-related duty to conduct himself in a fashion that builds character in others and reflects positively on the University.

I trust Ray to handle this. ESPN is giving Ray and the University very high marks across the board for the way it has been addressed so far.

The key is this: when "instruction and critique" can be construed as abuse by even a single person, you've almost certainly gone too far.
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Old 03-08-2014, 01:03 PM   #397
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Default Re: Frank Martin has been Suspended 1 Game...

So I spoke with a walk-on for the basketball team last night who played under Horn and Martin. As you can imagine, he said Martin was a MUCH better coach than Horn by the way he ran his practices and in games. He said the players liked Martin much more than Horn and have always respected and admired Martin. He said this kind of thing with Notice is not a big deal as it happens quite often, yet the players understand and still want to play for him and get better under him.
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Old 03-08-2014, 01:06 PM   #398
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Default Re: Frank Martin has been Suspended 1 Game...

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Originally Posted by Cockhornleghorn View Post
I like Frank's intensity and desire to win. I want to win in MBB more than any othet sport as it's my favorite. Yelling and getting onto a player is sometimes necessary, but using demeaning language crosses the line. I had to get on a couple of students at the Florida game for crossing the line in the stands. I love to get on the opposing team and coaches, as some of you know, but there are lines you don't cross.
The problem with that is who decides this line, you? The line is in different places for different folks, fans, coaches, players....I have nothing wrong with our university taking the high road but I do not agree with it. Having said that I think Coach was warned after the Williams incident and Coach Tanner felt it was the right thing to do with all the circumstances surrounding the situation. I believe this will end well for all involved and show Coach Martin's staunch disciplinarian side and caring side to the nation.
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Old 03-08-2014, 01:17 PM   #399
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Default Re: Frank Martin has been Suspended 1 Game...

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I totally agree. We all know that part of the reason he was hired is that he brings a certain "passion" to the game that makes for entertainment. The University is trying to elevate the profile of the program, and Frank is definitely a good coach with a pedigree.

On the other hand, we knew this was going to happen. I would venture to say that there is a line you shouldn't cross, and the intensity of the words is no problem here, it's what he actually said.

Frank has a duty as a coach to set an example and control his tongue. If he cannot maintain that level of discipline, how can he expect his team to show character and perform well under pressure?

It's all about leading by example. I was very much against the Frank Martin hiring, but having said that, I am in his corner now for as long as I believe that he is truly working with Ray on this issue and is repentant.

The more I looked into Frank's history the more I discovered that he has a very deep commitment to his players. I think he gives 110% to the team. That can drain a person, especially when we've been losing badly.

Still, there is no room for excusing what he did. He needs to apologize to the young man and that kid's family and then move on with a deeper commitment to showing character first.

Frank reminds me of the best coach I ever had. He was the scariest dude I've ever met -- most intense person and cursed like a sailor nonstop, getting up in your face, etc. I had to deal with that on our JV team and yet I could handle it and the team loved this coach because he made us a great team. We were tenacious and never ever quit.

Frank is that kind of coach. I still believe that he has a moral and job-related duty to conduct himself in a fashion that builds character in others and reflects positively on the University.

I trust Ray to handle this. ESPN is giving Ray and the University very high marks across the board for the way it has been addressed so far.

The key is this: when "instruction and critique" can be construed as abuse by even a single person, you've almost certainly gone too far.

That is just stupid, so one idiot thinks you abused a person based on 10 seconds they see on TV you have gone to far? I had an idiot tell me I abused my dog because I left him in the truck while shopping, ironically for dog food, I told the idiot that my dog's favorite place in the world is that truck, I rode him in that truck 4 years ago for cancer treatment everyday for a month, if I let him he would sleep in the truck waiting to RIDE but call it abuse if it makes you feel better so I almost certainly went to far?? If the worst thing that happened to Duane Notice in his life is Coach Martin called him a "#$&^ing #$%hole" he would have lived a charmed life!
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Old 03-08-2014, 01:34 PM   #400
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Default Re: Frank Martin has been Suspended 1 Game...

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The problem with that is who decides this line, you? The line is in different places for different folks, fans, coaches, players....I have nothing wrong with our university taking the high road but I do not agree with it. Having said that I think Coach was warned after the Williams incident and Coach Tanner felt it was the right thing to do with all the circumstances surrounding the situation. I believe this will end well for all involved and show Coach Martin's staunch disciplinarian side and caring side to the nation.
I don't want to come off anything but curious here but why do you think Frank Martin screaming obscenities and demeaning his players in the middle of a half full arena on national TV is fine...my word not yours...in the name of 'discipline/motivation' but his employer and boss addressing his behavior and holding him accountable related to his lack of discipline, self-control and an already addressed and ongoing issue is something you don't 'agree' with?

This goes for anybody here...why is what Martin doing so awesome and productive and yet what his boss/employer doing so outrageous?

No one wants to win more than the University, donors and AD...we currently have the #1 Baseball and Equestrian teams in the country, our women's B-ball team just won the SEC and is ranked #5, our Football team finished #4 and so on and so on. We are building and improving more of our facilities than at any point in the schools history. Everything is working...accept men's B-ball where we are ranked somewhere in the mid to late hundreds.

Seriously...How is the school and the job they are doing being questioned and attacked over the coach of the worse performing team in the athletic department?

What has he done that we are all supposed to chose his way over the University of South Carolina's way?

It doesn't compute...anyone?
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