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Old 03-19-2014, 01:04 PM   #41
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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Originally Posted by taylorssc View Post
College football is not the only option. Go overseas, go to Canada. They can go play pro ball if they want. NFL and NBA don't stipulate that you have to play in college, just that you've been out of high school for a certain number of years.

ReadR00sters got it right, scholarships are charity. Again, college sports is amateur athletics. Amateur stipulates non-paid. All schools agree on the same amount, you're correct. That amount is zero. It's not collusion, it's a group of institutions all competing under the banner of amateur athletics.

If they want anything more than zero, go pro or change the definition of the word amateur.

I'm not familiar with you on this board, are you always like this? You're acting like somebody kicked your dog. It's a message board discussion. Relax.
Why do they charge us so much to watch it then?
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Old 03-19-2014, 01:16 PM   #42
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

I'll try to simplify this. Here is the definition of collusion.

Full Definition of COLLUSION
: secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose
— col·lu·sive adjective
— col·lu·sive·ly adverb

There is no secret agreement. The fact that athletes are not paid is very public. There is no illegal or deceitful purpose. They are amateur athletes.

Arguing collusion is not the way to move their argument forward. I'm all for a stipend, as GS90 mentioned earlier. This lawsuit will not produce that outcome.

This suit argues that amateur athletes should be paid based on the revenue brought in during their games. Church ballers, t-ball players, junior olympic athletes, high school starters, get ready to hold your hand out for your share of concession sales during games you play in. It's so far off base.

If there's any sour grapes here, they're coming from the guys involved in the lawsuit.
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Old 03-19-2014, 01:18 PM   #43
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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Originally Posted by markp_vip View Post
Why do they charge us so much to watch it then?
Hosting these events, building stadiums, paying for scholarships, travel; these are not cheap. You pay more for a football ticket so the school can fund every other sport that does not make money.

I wouldn't say $35 is, "So much". I'd actually argue it was far undervalued.
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Old 03-19-2014, 01:23 PM   #44
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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Why do they charge us so much to watch it then?
Why? Because they can. And they are grateful for your donations.

I think the problem people have understanding is that they don't really understand the concept of "not-for-profit institutions."They think that means that the institution is not supposed to profit or something and if they do that somehow disqualifies them or something. That is completely false. In fact, like most businesses there there is duty in most cases to make as much money as possible. The difference is in for-profit the prime purpose of the venture is to make a financial profit for shareholders, while non-profit organization has a primary purpose that the government recognizes that is not to make a financial profit, such as improving education, or provide aid to people and so on. That doesn't mean they can't trying to make a lot of money in pursuit of their cause. They can take big donations and hire people to raise funds and compete in the market just like anyone else. Their is nothing that discourages or disqualifies non-profit institutions from raising millions and billions.

Last edited by ReadR00ster; 03-19-2014 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 03-19-2014, 01:26 PM   #45
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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Originally Posted by taylorssc View Post
Hosting these events, building stadiums, paying for scholarships, travel; these are not cheap. You pay more for a football ticket so the school can fund every other sport that does not make money.

I wouldn't say $35 is, "So much". I'd actually argue it was far undervalued.
No the expenses are not cheap, but the revenue is much greater than the expenses. I just think that when so much money is involved you can no longer consider it amateur athletics. For me the guys playing flag-football in the intramural and frat leagues are playing amateur sports, not guys playing in front of 80,000-120,000 seat stadiums and million plus tv audiences. Eventually, the system will have to be changed.
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Old 03-19-2014, 01:28 PM   #46
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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Eventually, the system will have to be changed.
I agree. Just don't think this is the right way to initiate change.
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Old 03-19-2014, 01:29 PM   #47
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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Why? Because they can. And they are grateful for your donations.
And I don't mind donating at all, but would like to see a portion of my donations go to the men actaully playing the game.
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Old 03-19-2014, 01:31 PM   #48
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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I agree. Just don't think this is the right way to initiate change.
Yeah, I don't like the whole lawsuit or strike idea at all, but something needs to be done. At the very least college athletes should be allowed to profit from their image rights. Set up a trust fund that they can't touch until they graduate or either use up or forfeit the rest of their eligibility.
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Old 03-19-2014, 01:37 PM   #49
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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Scholarships are not charity. I'm not sure how you have come to that conclusion. A football scholarship is contingent on a person having a specific skill set and using that skill set for the benefit of the athletic program. It is not freely given, and has nothing to do with the financial need of the person receiving it.

I do find humor in the relax comment though. I guess when someone points out that your comments are uniformed and, in some cases, pretty overtly racist you think it's a contentious affair. Get some thicker skin -- it's just a message board, remember?
You sound like a damn rip off personal injury lawyer. What is your occupation?
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Old 03-19-2014, 01:38 PM   #50
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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Athletes are getting a free education that can cost them upwards of 160,000+ bucks at some institutions (if they stay all 4 years, or 5 if they redshirt). I think that's pretty good compensation to get to play a game as your main objective. They only have to spend 12 hours a week in a classroom plus probly another 5-10 in study hall.

If actually getting an education was more important to these kids then they wouldn't be complaining. They play a team game, not an individual game where thousands of people come to watch. Then maybe I could talk about getting something.

The way I see it. Athletes should receive around 500 bucks (on a school monitored debit card) a month for what they do simply because their extra curricular activities do not allow them to get a job. That's the only reason. 500 bucks will give them some spending money and plenty of extra cash to spend off campus on whatever they need. Idc how much money their sport brings to the school every student athlete has to receive the same amount because it's only fair. It needs to be on a debit card of some kind to simply monitor what the kids are buying. Make it a mastercard from a local bank and do not allow transfer of funds or visits to atm's. (simply so you can feel safer that they aren't giving the kids money to buy drugs or the under age guys alcohol). If they can do that then I am all for it.

That's about 5,000 dollars a school year. That's plenty I feel.

But on the other hand a clempsun player trying to get free money....who is that really surprising? Google clemson paying players and I'm sure you'll find plenty of pictures lol.
To add to my post here.

They also have to factor in cost of living. Things in L.A. (Los Angeles) cost quite a bit more than in Columbia so 5 grand in Columbia will go quite a bit farther than in L.A. That's something they have to figure out.

Maybe the amount of money equivalent to 15-20 hours of minimum wage in each state?
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Old 03-19-2014, 01:42 PM   #51
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

Fortunately, we can disagree for now and see what the court does. I think some legal eagles on here will be surprised to discover that their opinion isn't the law, but I could be wrong. We'll see in a few years.
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Old 03-19-2014, 01:42 PM   #52
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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And I don't mind donating at all, but would like to see a portion of my donations go to the men actaully playing the game.
They do. These kids don't pay a dime for an education, food, books, a personal trainer, doctors, massage therapist, nutritionist, a state of the art gym, ect ect.
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Old 03-19-2014, 01:44 PM   #53
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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No the expenses are not cheap, but the revenue is much greater than the expenses. I just think that when so much money is involved you can no longer consider it amateur athletics. For me the guys playing flag-football in the intramural and frat leagues are playing amateur sports, not guys playing in front of 80,000-120,000 seat stadiums and million plus tv audiences. Eventually, the system will have to be changed.
They are amateurs because it's voluntary and they'd don't get paid play. It has nothing to do with what other people are making.
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Old 03-19-2014, 02:01 PM   #54
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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They don't give the scholarships out "for the benefit of the athletic department." They don't pay athletes to play. Scholarships are FINANCIAL AID to help promising young people pay for education so that the can develop skills and equip them with knowledge useful for like AFTER college. What you are saying is like saying the Pelle Grant I got after I made the honor roll was them paying me for services rendered. What about academic scholarships? How is that compensation? What about all these sports that don't even make money or at schools that don't make money in any sports which is most schools? How is that compensation? What are they are compensating them for? Losing money? Athletic scholarships encourage young people to become involved in sports and be fit and active and learn good things like how to be part of a team and to keep trying and to succeed with grace and lose with pride. Sports also gives kids somethings positive to do when they could be doing bad things instead. So to promote the positive impact sports plays on society, schools decide to reward some of these young people with educational opportunities. That's called charity. It has nothing to do with the fundraising schools do for themselves. If a rule was passed down banning athletic scholarships, they would carry on with all walk-ons who don't even get athletic scholarships. The profit is the result of having a strong fan base, not the the players. That is why a lot of schools don't even make money. Like it or not universities are charitable institutions, if they can make a good bit of money in the process, they will, and put that money to good use toward their mission of improving education and benefiting the community.
How can you think that the players have nothing to do with profit? I don't care how strong the fan base is, you are not going to make any money if there are no players on the field.
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Old 03-19-2014, 02:26 PM   #55
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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A quick google search reveals that this particular player who would be "bagging groceries" was on the ACC academic honor roll as a freshman. His dad played in the NFL before a 25-year career in finance, including two stints as Vice President of Investments for two Wall Street firms. He's the author of a freaking book called "Lee Jenkins on Money: Real Solutions to Financial Challenges."

So yeah, when someone says his honor-roll kid would be bagging groceries if it weren't for football, it comes across racist as hell.
It comes across as racist because you're looking for it to be racist. Like I said, there's no reason to assume this kid is one of the ones that wouldn't get into school without football, but there are plenty of them out there. You didn't disagree with that point, so I'll just assume that all in all you know I'm right and that you need to put your race card back in your wallet. Not assuming you're black here, just saying you pulled it out.

****"the ones" being football players, not black people.
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Old 03-19-2014, 04:07 PM   #56
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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How can you think that the players have nothing to do with profit? I don't care how strong the fan base is, you are not going to make any money if there are no players on the field.
Yeah with his logic, he should go into a Mcdonalds and operate everything to make his own food. The worker/player doesn't matter at all, the school doesn't matter as well. Without the school the team doesn't exist, just like the owner of a company it doesn't exist if a person isn't willing to invest the money to build the business. The players make the team without them there is no team, as well if the owner doesn't hire a worker he can't present the product to a lot of people.

It's all equal share, the customer is the fuel source, the worker puts the fuel into the car, and the owner is the car/driver. This is what makes a business work.
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Old 03-19-2014, 04:34 PM   #57
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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It comes across as racist because you're looking for it to be racist. Like I said, there's no reason to assume this kid is one of the ones that wouldn't get into school without football, but there are plenty of them out there. You didn't disagree with that point, so I'll just assume that all in all you know I'm right and that you need to put your race card back in your wallet. Not assuming you're black here, just saying you pulled it out.

****"the ones" being football players, not black people.
Never thought I would see the day that I could ask someone how they are doing, and be called a racist. The race card is being thrown out wayyy too much now a days.
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Old 03-19-2014, 05:37 PM   #58
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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Never thought I would see the day that I could ask someone how they are doing, and be called a racist. The race card is being thrown out wayyy too much now a days.
Race card gets thrown out to distract you from your argument. If someone plays the race card they are admitting that they lost the argument.
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Old 03-19-2014, 05:57 PM   #59
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

How many athletic departments made money last year? 20 maybe 25? Big Time football is for funding the athletic departments and 99.9% of athletic departments end up deep in the red for running the other sports. People must not understand how college athletic departments work.
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Old 03-19-2014, 06:27 PM   #60
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurrier_Superior_One View Post
How many athletic departments made money last year? 20 maybe 25? Big Time football is for funding the athletic departments and 99.9% of athletic departments end up deep in the red for running the other sports. People must not understand how college athletic departments work.
This is why they should let all athletes retain a portion their image rights and be allowed to profit from them. Let the free market decide what they are all worth.
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Recently the difference between Clemson and Carolina has become clear. While Irrational People Talk About Yesterday, The Rational Ones Orchestrate Success Today. So as they desperately cling to their history, we continue to make history day by day.
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