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Old 03-19-2014, 07:03 PM   #61
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

^They are students first if they want to use their image don't play NCAA sports, they know the rules don't like don't do it, its really simple.
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Old 03-19-2014, 07:17 PM   #62
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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Originally Posted by Spurrier_Superior_One View Post
How many athletic departments made money last year? 20 maybe 25? Big Time football is for funding the athletic departments and 99.9% of athletic departments end up deep in the red for running the other sports. People must not understand how college athletic departments work.
Well, you're on the right track, but you aren't all the way there. I think most people do understand how atheltic departments work. You and one other person seem to think that they don't generate a ton of profits. In the power conferences, they absolutely do -- they just choose to spend those profits on things they know are unprofitable. And that's the way you should actually think about this problem.

Most people know that if d1 FBS schools could pay cash on top of scholarships and there was open competition for recruits, then schools would pay recruits. Certainly the big boys. So that means the players are receiving less under the current regime than they would in open compeition. That value doesn't disppear, it's just reallocated somewhere else.

So who gets the windfall? Well, by and large the unprofitable sports. The swimmings, volleyballs, track and fields of the world. Also coaches, NCAA administrators, and athletic department employees.

I like swimming and track as much as the next guy (honestly probably a lot more -- I ran track). But it's a little tough for me to understand why we would allow schools to flagrantly and openly agree to suppress the value of the players generating the economic gains in order to reallocate them to someone who doesn't contribute to the pie.

I keep asking again and again -- in what other multi-billion dollar industry in America can the major players agree to control the price of labor?
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Old 03-19-2014, 08:25 PM   #63
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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Originally Posted by DJCatfish View Post
Well, you're on the right track, but you aren't all the way there. I think most people do understand how atheltic departments work. You and one other person seem to think that they don't generate a ton of profits. In the power conferences, they absolutely do -- they just choose to spend those profits on things they know are unprofitable. And that's the way you should actually think about this problem.

Most people know that if d1 FBS schools could pay cash on top of scholarships and there was open competition for recruits, then schools would pay recruits. Certainly the big boys. So that means the players are receiving less under the current regime than they would in open compeition. That value doesn't disppear, it's just reallocated somewhere else.

So who gets the windfall? Well, by and large the unprofitable sports. The swimmings, volleyballs, track and fields of the world. Also coaches, NCAA administrators, and athletic department employees.

I like swimming and track as much as the next guy (honestly probably a lot more -- I ran track). But it's a little tough for me to understand why we would allow schools to flagrantly and openly agree to suppress the value of the players generating the economic gains in order to reallocate them to someone who doesn't contribute to the pie.

I keep asking again and again -- in what other multi-billion dollar industry in America can the major players agree to control the price of labor?
All pro sports leagues that have a salary cap and minimums.

You can live in a dream world where somehow football will be the only sport at these colleges, but that's all it is; a dream. Title IX is t leaving and schools will not go to a pay to play model. They'd go no scholarships and no pay before pay for play and scholarships.

Here's the truth and those who want pay athletes will always ignore. Major college football would still be watched and bring in billions, even if they didn't get any of the current recruits. You could take the D3 athletes and put them all in jerseys for USC, OSU, Bama, etc and the fans would show up and spend the same money. It's the school pride and lineage that leads to the billions of dollars not the elite athletes. It's the same reason why high school football in the south gets 1000s of people at games.

So good luck pushing for pay for play, because if your not careful you may ruin the only chance so many athletes had to get a college degree.
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Old 03-19-2014, 08:33 PM   #64
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

It used to be a long time ago that kids worked hard on sports and their grades in HS hoping to get an athletic scholarship to earn an education that they could use to better their life. Now most of them just want to go to college for a few years to tune up their skills for the next level. If you want to level the playing field and end all this crap, all you have to do is require student althletes to meet the same entrance requirements as the general student population. I wonder how many football and basketball players can score 1200 plus on the SAT?
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:11 PM   #65
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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Originally Posted by GamecockInHell View Post
It used to be a long time ago that kids worked hard on sports and their grades in HS hoping to get an athletic scholarship to earn an education that they could use to better their life. Now most of them just want to go to college for a few years to tune up their skills for the next level. If you want to level the playing field and end all this crap, all you have to do is require student althletes to meet the same entrance requirements as the general student population. I wonder how many football and basketball players can score 1200 plus on the SAT?
You can thank Miami of the 80s for bringing the standards down so drastically. Colleges used to give an exemption for may be an athlete or two, but then Miami said to hell with standards and brought in anyone who could play. That is why I hate the 30-for-30 on the U. It basically ignores this fact and acts like it was so noble what they were doing. Georgetown basketball was also a helpful pioneer in this area.
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Old 03-20-2014, 08:01 AM   #66
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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Well, you're on the right track, but you aren't all the way there. I think most people do understand how atheltic departments work. You and one other person seem to think that they don't generate a ton of profits. In the power conferences, they absolutely do -- they just choose to spend those profits on things they know are unprofitable. And that's the way you should actually think about this problem.

Most people know that if d1 FBS schools could pay cash on top of scholarships and there was open competition for recruits, then schools would pay recruits. Certainly the big boys. So that means the players are receiving less under the current regime than they would in open compeition. That value doesn't disppear, it's just reallocated somewhere else.

So who gets the windfall? Well, by and large the unprofitable sports. The swimmings, volleyballs, track and fields of the world. Also coaches, NCAA administrators, and athletic department employees.

I like swimming and track as much as the next guy (honestly probably a lot more -- I ran track). But it's a little tough for me to understand why we would allow schools to flagrantly and openly agree to suppress the value of the players generating the economic gains in order to reallocate them to someone who doesn't contribute to the pie.

I keep asking again and again -- in what other multi-billion dollar industry in America can the major players agree to control the price of labor?
Every sports league in this country!

Just because you don't like or agree with the answer doesn't make it any less true.

By the way, if you eliminate this "price fixing" you eliminate the industry. Surely you realize this.
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Old 03-20-2014, 08:08 AM   #67
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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Scholarships are not charity. I'm not sure how you have come to that conclusion. A football scholarship is contingent on a person having a specific skill set and using that skill set for the benefit of the athletic program. It is not freely given, and has nothing to do with the financial need of the person receiving it.

I do find humor in the relax comment though. I guess when someone points out that your comments are uniformed and, in some cases, pretty overtly racist you think it's a contentious affair. Get some thicker skin -- it's just a message board, remember?
Lighten up Francis.
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Old 03-20-2014, 08:14 AM   #68
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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Lighten up Francis.

He didn't seem to need lightening up- he's just engaging in a discussion. Nothing in his post(s) indicated he was getting worked up.
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Old 03-20-2014, 08:28 AM   #69
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

The kids that want to get to the pros need the NCAA as much as the NCAA needs them. It's a fair trade.

If the kids don't want to got to the NCAA with the way things are now, let them spend their own money for years of top notch training and nutrition and coaching and everything else. Oh, that's right, very few, could afford to due that out of High School. Additionally, next to none would be mentally, emotionally, or physically be ready to play pro ball out of HS. Not many like Lebron out there in basketball and even Clowney would not have been ready in football out of HS.

Someone will not be happy until the whole system is destroyed and far more harm will be done than good. No problem with a small stipend for the players in lieu of a regular part time job, but that's it.
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:22 AM   #70
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

Unpaid internships, we college kids do them in hopes of getting a good job. Some jobs are unpaid, but if its in the field you want to work in you do it.
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:23 AM   #71
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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Originally Posted by 3MTA3 View Post
He didn't seem to need lightening up- he's just engaging in a discussion. Nothing in his post(s) indicated he was getting worked up.
The overtly racist part he needed to lighten up on
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:52 AM   #72
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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The overtly racist part he needed to lighten up on

You're right- it wasn't overtly racist, just subtly racist (or subconsciously perhaps)
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:55 AM   #73
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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You're right- it wasn't overtly racist, just subtly racist (or subconsciously perhaps)
It was neither. Just a reference to the opportunities playing D1 football offers. I made no reference to race. Being a bag boy has no racial undertones. In fact, I'd say most bag boys I encounter are white teenagers. The fact that you and catfish input race into it speak more to your distorted points of view than mine.
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Old 03-20-2014, 12:15 PM   #74
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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^They are students first if they want to use their image don't play NCAA sports, they know the rules don't like don't do it, its really simple.
I just don't understand this line of thinking. This could be a win/win proposition. Look at the money that could be made by all parties involved. Take EA Sports NCAA Football for eaxample. There is huge demand for the game, but it looks to be discontinued because the NCAA and major conferences can't remove their head from their hind quarters. As it stands now you have huge demand and no supply for future games. No one will make any money off of it because the NCAA want to be stubborn a$$es. Let the players make a little money off their image rights, it's going to end up benefitting everyone and all of us dumbass sports fans will gladly pay for it all when we get to play a new version of NCAA Football and it actually has our favorite players names on their uniforms without having to search around for player name files.
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Old 03-20-2014, 12:21 PM   #75
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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Originally Posted by brat View Post
The kids that want to get to the pros need the NCAA as much as the NCAA needs them. It's a fair trade.

If the kids don't want to got to the NCAA with the way things are now, let them spend their own money for years of top notch training and nutrition and coaching and everything else. Oh, that's right, very few, could afford to due that out of High School. Additionally, next to none would be mentally, emotionally, or physically be ready to play pro ball out of HS. Not many like Lebron out there in basketball and even Clowney would not have been ready in football out of HS.

Someone will not be happy until the whole system is destroyed and far more harm will be done than good. No problem with a small stipend for the players in lieu of a regular part time job, but that's it.
What if an English major or Music Student on scholorship writes a book or makes an album while in school? Should they be allowed to profit off of it or should the school get to keep all of the proceeds?
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Old 03-20-2014, 12:35 PM   #76
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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High Schools Charge for admission. Does that mean I should sue my old school to get my cut of the gate?
Uh, no. Your high school was free for everyone, regardless of whether you played football. College is not.
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Old 03-20-2014, 12:36 PM   #77
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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What if an English major or Music Student on scholorship writes a book or makes an album while in school? Should they be allowed to profit off of it or should the school get to keep all of the proceeds?
Exactly.
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:09 PM   #78
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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Originally Posted by markp_vip View Post
What if an English major or Music Student on scholorship writes a book or makes an album while in school? Should they be allowed to profit off of it or should the school get to keep all of the proceeds?
If the school writes into the scholarship that they must give a portion of it to the university than, yep, the writer should.
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:10 PM   #79
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Uh, no. Your high school was free for everyone, regardless of whether you played football. College is not.
Free education for all doesn't matter. Also private schools also charge admissions, should those HS players be compensated. Are you saying if colleges didn't charge money to go there, than the athletes wouldn't deserve a paycheck? Seems like a bad argument.
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:22 PM   #80
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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If the school writes into the scholarship that they must give a portion of it to the university than, yep, the writer should.
That doesn't really answer the question, do you think that a school should put that sort of language into academic scholorships? Personally, I think it would be a terrible business decision for the school. They would stand to make much more in future tuitions if they had a best selling author study at their school than they would make from the book royalties.
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