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Old 03-20-2014, 05:06 PM   #121
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

^If it is a gift why to do have to actually do something to get it, they aren't getting scholarships for doing nothing. Gift means you do nothing compensation means you do something to earn and keep it.
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Old 03-20-2014, 05:20 PM   #122
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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Originally Posted by Spurrier_Superior_One View Post
^If it is a gift why to do have to actually do something to get it, they aren't getting scholarships for doing nothing. Gift means you do nothing compensation means you do something to earn and keep it.
Every scholarship requires you that you do something. You have to make good grades. You have to participate in certain extra curricular activities. That's call a condition. That doesn't make it an employer-employee relationship. It just makes it a conditional gift. Look at walk-ons. They do everything the other players do and they don't even get jack. Why? Because, no one owes them jack. Scholarships are not compensation. They don't even count as income on your taxes.

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Old 03-20-2014, 08:15 PM   #123
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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You're missing the point. You weren't receiving free school in return for your participation in high school sports. College players are. If colleges didn't charge anything, then they'd be true amateurs as they wouldn't be compensated AT ALL for their participation. Once we realize that they are, in fact, being paid something for their playing sports, we can debate whether it is sufficient.
You are wrong. I was given a scholarship to play HS sports at a private HS. So your argument still fails. I have no right to ask for money from the gate that the school collected.
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Old 03-20-2014, 09:39 PM   #124
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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You are wrong. I was given a scholarship to play HS sports at a private HS. So your argument still fails. I have no right to ask for money from the gate that the school collected.
I don't think the school made much of a profit from those gates, but I could be wrong. I would support you in a case to obtain your image rights from your glory years though. Did you go to school in Va? I went to Lake Braddock.
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Old 03-20-2014, 10:04 PM   #125
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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I don't think the school made much of a profit from those gates, but I could be wrong. I would support you in a case to obtain your image rights from your glory years though. Did you go to school in Va? I went to Lake Braddock.
From Va but played in DC at Saint Johns. When did you graduate from LB? I coach football at Chantilly HS.
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Old 03-20-2014, 10:16 PM   #126
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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I don't think the school made much of a profit from those gates, but I could be wrong. I would support you in a case to obtain your image rights from your glory years though. Did you go to school in Va? I went to Lake Braddock.
What does the amount of profit have to do with it?
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Old 03-20-2014, 10:18 PM   #127
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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From Va but played in DC at Saint Johns. When did you graduate from LB? I coach football at Chantilly HS.
Cool, I graduated in 91 and then actually helped coach the JV lacrosse team there for a couple years. Lived in Fairfax through HS and then Manassas a couple years. I really enjoyed the Northern Virginia Area when I lived there, but I don't miss the beltway traffic too much. I can only imagine how much worse it has gotten. Last time I was up there a few years ago I stayed with a buddy in Ashburn, before going to over to C'Ville for a Virginia game, and the bumper to bumper traffic has already found it's way out there. That area was still was mostly country when I lived there.
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Old 03-20-2014, 10:27 PM   #128
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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What does the amount of profit have to do with it?

Tough to try and get your share of the pie when there is no pie.
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Old 03-20-2014, 10:40 PM   #129
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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Tough to try and get your share of the pie when there is no pie.
Not sure how that's relevant but since you bring it up, how does that effect the schools that don't make all the money that the power conferences make?
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Old 03-20-2014, 10:46 PM   #130
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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Not sure how that's relevant but since you bring it up, how does that effect the schools that don't make all the money that the power conferences make?

Can't create money out of thin air.

IMO this discussion should be about he revenue generated. If revenue isn't generated, then...tough.
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Old 03-20-2014, 10:54 PM   #131
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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Can't create money out of thin air.

IMO this discussion should be about he revenue generated. If revenue isn't generated, then...tough.
This is what I was thinking. That's why I think they should focus on image rights. Then it's all on what the free market thinks the individual athlete is worth. They could even integrate it into their school work. The guys that are good enough to profit off of their image are going to be trying to go pro and will need to learn how to handle this sort of stuff. A University is designed to teach these kids skills to be used in their chosen profession. If they are trying to be pro athletes then we should prepare them for that and everything it entails, instead of just herding them through barely passing something they have no interest in. This could be at least an aspect of their education, I'm sure they are already doing some stuff like that for them anyway.
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:11 PM   #132
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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Can't create money out of thin air.

IMO this discussion should be about he revenue Bottomated. If revenue isn't generated, then...tough.
Then you are going to create a second class of d1 schools. The smaller schools will never go for that. Bottom line, the amount of revenue being earned has nothing to do with a player's right to it. If any money is being earned, the player either has a right to it, or he does not.
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:17 PM   #133
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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Cool, I graduated in 91 and then actually helped coach the JV lacrosse team there for a couple years. Lived in Fairfax through HS and then Manassas a couple years. I really enjoyed the Northern Virginia Area when I lived there, but I don't miss the beltway traffic too much. I can only imagine how much worse it has gotten. Last time I was up there a few years ago I stayed with a buddy in Ashburn, before going to over to C'Ville for a Virginia game, and the bumper to bumper traffic has already found it's way out there. That area was still was mostly country when I lived there.
Yeah Northern Va is awful when it comes to traffic. Basically Loudoun and Ashburn are what Burke and LB area were like back when you were in HS. I almost stayed in Carolina after college because of the lifestyle difference, but coaching with my brothers and living near family won out.

Ok, I will stop derailing the argument over paying players...haha
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Old 03-21-2014, 12:07 AM   #134
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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Then you are going to create a second class of d1 schools. The smaller schools will never go for that. Bottom line, the amount of revenue being earned has nothing to do with a player's right to it. If any money is being earned, the player either has a right to it, or he does not.

IMP, the player should have a right to a piece of the pie. How that is done as far as divvying it up I cannot say.

Is it going to be "fair?" Probably not. So be it.
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Old 03-21-2014, 02:41 AM   #135
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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IMP, the player should have a right to a piece of the pie. How that is done as far as divvying it up I cannot say.

Is it going to be "fair?" Probably not. So be it.
Everyone thinks they deserve something they aren't getting. I want some pie too. How about the school pay some of my student loan debt off after all the money I have been paying to watch these sports? The money is coming in because of me and fans like me. All they do is to keep sending me mail asking me for more!
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Old 03-21-2014, 08:41 AM   #136
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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Everyone thinks they deserve something they aren't getting. I want some pie too. How about the school pay some of my student loan debt off after all the money I have been paying to watch these sports? The money is coming in because of me and fans like me. All they do is to keep sending me mail asking me for more!

Get your sour grapes out of here. I've got student loans also. You and I aren't the ones generating the revenue, the players are. What you're suggesting is akin to customers expecting a piece of the pie for what the employees of a company are producing.
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Old 03-21-2014, 08:41 AM   #137
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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IMP, the player should have a right to a piece of the pie. How that is done as far as divvying it up I cannot say.

Is it going to be "fair?" Probably not. So be it.
They are getting a piece of the pie. It's called an education worth thousands of dollars, free place to stay, world class training table, world class fitness program and a free platform to Audition for the NFL. It's a good deal.
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Old 03-21-2014, 09:03 AM   #138
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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They are getting a piece of the pie. It's called an education worth thousands of dollars, free place to stay, world class training table, world class fitness program and a free platform to Audition for the NFL. It's a good deal.

Time will tell whether the courts agree.
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Old 03-21-2014, 09:06 AM   #139
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

It should also be noted, in terms of comparison- there are unpaid interns throughout the workforce who receive training and experience, which many can argue is worth a lot, but courts are starting to rule against such practices, forcing employers to pay those interns.

I could definitely see college athletes compared to unpaid interns in the world of college athletics as big business.
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Old 03-21-2014, 09:42 AM   #140
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Default Re: Clemson DB Sues NCAA

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It should also be noted, in terms of comparison- there are unpaid interns throughout the workforce who receive training and experience, which many can argue is worth a lot, but courts are starting to rule against such practices, forcing employers to pay those interns.

I could definitely see college athletes compared to unpaid interns in the world of college athletics as big business.
First, I think that is stupid rulings by the courts.

Second, what I see happening, if these rulings were to apply to college sports, is them removing scholarships and just paying the value of the tuition to the players. So basically, if you go to Notre Dame that cost 50k a year, you get a check for 50k not a free education. Then the athletes can decided to either use it towards their tuition or not. However, this will actually hurt the athlete more than their current setup. Now they'd be forced to pay taxes on it and likely not leave school with no debt.

There is no way they are going to give the kids a 10k a year stipend on top of scholarships. Also the kids aren't really complaining about having another $100 a week, they want to be able to live like the athletes they see on TV. They will always want more. I still don't know how anyone can argue these guys are so poor when so many of them have 1000's of dollars of tattoos on their bodies. Seems to me like they need to learn to budget their money or not complain about it.
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