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Old 04-02-2014, 04:14 PM   #61
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Default Re: Column missed its mark

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Originally Posted by USCfootball View Post
Unionization in NCAA athletics is a microcosm of current society in the US. People want something for nothing.

A back-up Delaware St. safety wants health insurance and a cut of profits largely generated from schools he will never play against, not to mention probably ever had the chance to play at? That's like a kid at a lemonade stand demanding profits from Coca-Cola....and think about it....those two indenties are very different.

In the world of Obama phones, health care for all and only about 51% of Americans working, it is no suprise this is happening.

Here are my 2 cents.

1. No one is making you play football. If your scared to get injured, then don't play sports. I have yet to hear of any chemistry students teaing ACLs going to the library.

2. In any field, you have to put your apprentice in. Be in clerking in law school, residencies after med school, working under master electrician, etc....you are always going to have to do your share of "the grunt work" to get to the top of your field. If you wanna play in the NBA or NFL......guess what? You may be forced to a few years of near celebrity status on campus banging chicks you would have never had a chance to while running practically lawless and getting away with many others would not.

3. I don't care if your from Alabama, you never met your daddy, your mom blah blah blah. Life sucks and few have a silver spoon. Work for it. The color of your skin doesn't matter, only your attitude. And you can "poor inner city minority me" all you want. No one gives a sh!t sir, take out student loans and make something of yourself.....or better yet, be f'ing happy your athletic skills will allow you to go to school for FREE!!!!

Want health care, 401k, etc. Then be like the rest of us who went to college and got a degree if you cant' make it in the NFL/NBA/etc. etc. etc.

The argument is not about 'wanting something for nothing'

its about wanting compensation for services rendered.

college athletes are the only adults in the United States who are barred from profiting from THEIR OWN LIKENESS
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Old 04-02-2014, 04:17 PM   #62
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Default Re: Column missed its mark

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Originally Posted by 3MTA3 View Post
The argument is not about 'wanting something for nothing'

its about wanting compensation for services rendered.

college athletes are the only adults in the United States who are barred from profiting from THEIR OWN LIKENESS

Their compensation is a free education. Does a student on an academic scholarship to a major university get a cut of the millions of research dollars that his/her respective university gets? NO

How is that any different? His or her service rendered was going to class.
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Old 04-02-2014, 04:19 PM   #63
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Default Re: Column missed its mark

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Their compensation is a free education. Does a student on an academic scholarship to a major university get a cut of the millions of research dollars that his/her respective university gets? NO
Often times, yes- it is called a research grant.

And, if that same student wants to invent something while enrolled- they can...AND THEY CAN PROFIT FROM IT (while not being expelled from their research!)
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Old 04-02-2014, 04:21 PM   #64
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Default Re: Column missed its mark

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Originally Posted by Lalli25 View Post
The declared the Declaration of Independence and had the articles of confederation in place.
Not true. They were not complete until November 1777 and not ratified until 1781. They may have had the ideas bouncing around, but not fully formed. Just like NCAA reform in this scenario.
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Old 04-02-2014, 04:49 PM   #65
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Default Re: Column missed its mark

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Originally Posted by 3MTA3 View Post
How did those Articles of Confederation work out?

Oh, you mean the system that was devised was scrapped in lieu of the Constitution, which came after?

You mean you DONT have to have all the details set in stone before recognizing a systemic change is needed?

WHOOPS!


Thanks for furthering my point.
They did set it in stone before changing to the current constitution, hence the constitutional convention and ratification. Just stop you are making yourself look dumber with each post.
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Old 04-02-2014, 04:53 PM   #66
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Default Re: Column missed its mark

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Originally Posted by Lalli25 View Post
They did set it in stone before changing to the current constitution, hence the constitutional convention and ratification. Just stop you are making yourself look dumber with each post.
So what you're saying is- when the current system inevitably changes, we won't be 'married' to that new system? that further changes can be made as issues that cannot be foreseen are recognized?

Well I'll be damned...
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Old 04-02-2014, 05:03 PM   #67
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Default Re: Column missed its mark

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Originally Posted by 3MTA3 View Post
So what you're saying is- when the current system inevitably changes, we won't be 'married' to that new system? that further changes can be made as issues that cannot be foreseen are recognized?

Well I'll be damned...
Wow your hopeless. That you can honestly attempt to say these are the same shows a lack of understanding.

One was a very carefully thoughtout long process that took into account all the possible issues before changing everything, while the other is just a sudden change with no thought of the consequences or possible issues.
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Old 04-02-2014, 05:06 PM   #68
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Default Re: Column missed its mark

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Wow your hopeless. That you can honestly attempt to say these are the same shows a lack of understanding.

One was a very carefully thoughtout long process that took into account all the possible issues before changing everything, while the other is just a sudden change with no thought of the consequences or possible issues.
link?
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Old 04-02-2014, 05:09 PM   #69
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Default Re: Column missed its mark

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Originally Posted by palmettosc View Post
Not true. They were not complete until November 1777 and not ratified until 1781. They may have had the ideas bouncing around, but not fully formed. Just like NCAA reform in this scenario.
If you want to go literal, they had a government intact through the continental congress for when they declared independence. They did not declare independence without considering these issues and how to solve the issues they were fighting against.
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Old 04-02-2014, 05:19 PM   #70
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Default Re: Column missed its mark

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If you want to go literal, they had a government intact through the continental congress for when they declared independence. They did not declare independence without considering these issues and how to solve the issues they were fighting against.
Yes they did. They were upset at the current system (British rule/NCAA set up) and used the first Continental congress (the only one that took place before declaring independence) to air their problems with the governing body.
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Old 04-02-2014, 08:37 PM   #71
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Default Re: Column missed its mark

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Originally Posted by palmettosc View Post
Yes they did. They were upset at the current system (British rule/NCAA set up) and used the first Continental congress (the only one that took place before declaring independence) to air their problems with the governing body.
The second continental congress ratified the Declaration of Independence. The first decided it needed to convene again to discuss how to handle the problems facing American colonies after seeing what the British did about major laws. None of which was done without long contemplation for the ultimate ramifications of their actions, not just to the members but to all of America and England. Pretty much the exact opposite of what that article and many on here are doing with college sports.
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:48 PM   #72
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Default Re: Column missed its mark

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Originally Posted by Lalli25 View Post
Wow your hopeless. That you can honestly attempt to say these are the same shows a lack of understanding.

One was a very carefully thoughtout long process that took into account all the possible issues before changing everything, while the other is just a sudden change with no thought of the consequences or possible issues.

Yep. They considered every issue and addressed all of them before declaring independence from Britain, declaring certain inalienable rights for all...

...land owning white men.


I guess they kinda missed on a few inherent contradictions early on, eh?


But I tell you what- that whole college athletics thing, unless we get ALL potential issues ironed out BEFORE hand, well...we'd better just keep those putting the product of that multi-billion dollar industry out there as amateurs, you know- for the purity of the game!
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:51 PM   #73
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Default Re: Column missed its mark

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalli25 View Post
The second continental congress ratified the Declaration of Independence. The first decided it needed to convene again to discuss how to handle the problems facing American colonies after seeing what the British did about major laws. None of which was done without long contemplation for the ultimate ramifications of their actions, not just to the members but to all of America and England. Pretty much the exact opposite of what that article and many on here are doing with college sports.

Consider this ruling notice- we all know it will take several years of appeals for any bomb to be dropped on the NCAA.

If the NCAA chooses to pitch a fit rather than address the problems between now and then...so be it.
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Old 04-02-2014, 11:36 PM   #74
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Default Re: Column missed its mark

I am for the unionizing or something that allows college football and basketball players to get a slice of the pie for several reasons:

1. When these college sports started up and all the way up until the last few decades there hasn't been big money involved. The finances of the game have evolved and the compensation of the student athletes has not. These changes aren't going to happen unless universities and the NCAA are dragged along kicking and screaming otherwise we would have seen a few since the big money started rolling in.

2. It is not as if the schools treat these sports like they aren't there to make as much money as possible. Look at Texas A&M for example who destroyed one of the bigger rivalries in football by moving to the SEC. Tradition didn't mean anything in the face of a larger TV contract. Same with the Big East. If the schools can treat this like a multi-billion dollar business why can't the athletes who everyone is paying to see?

3. Academics are not prioritized for the "student" athletes. Some players are forced to change their major so they won't take classes that interfere with football or basketball. Then there are issues like blatant academic fraud like at UNC that guarantees their players will make it on the field/court but also guarantees that if they don't go pro their 4 years have been wasted. Once you damage the academic argument which is very easy to do and combine it with the hours put in the employee status these players want is very legitimate.

4. Injuries. Now that there is the money to compensate players for injuries even after their careers are over I don't see the NCAA or the individual schools stepping forward to help with the medical bills that come after the career is over that is directly related to the sport. This is something that unions are built to do and in this case it is severely needed considering the concussion issue and the violent nature of football. Then there are crazy things that happen in basketball like the Ware injury that this could apply to as well.

Things would not be going the drastic route they are headed now if the NCAA had stepped up to the plate years ago and instituted some changes that would benefit student athletes in the classroom, on the field, post-career, and financially. No changes occurred when they could have been more minor so now they are going to be anything but minor when the dust settles.
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Old 04-03-2014, 07:03 AM   #75
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Default Re: Column missed its mark

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Originally Posted by 3MTA3 View Post
Yep. They considered every issue and addressed all of them before declaring independence from Britain, declaring certain inalienable rights for all...

...land owning white men.


I guess they kinda missed on a few inherent contradictions early on, eh?


But I tell you what- that whole college athletics thing, unless we get ALL potential issues ironed out BEFORE hand, well...we'd better just keep those putting the product of that multi-billion dollar industry out there as amateurs, you know- for the purity of the game!
Slavery was heavily debated and it almost kept America from declaring independence. You keep showing ignorance of US history and really just need to quit. You should spend time educating yourself on US history rather than worrying about college athletes getting paid...smh
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Old 04-03-2014, 07:49 AM   #76
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Default Re: Column missed its mark

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalli25 View Post
Slavery was heavily debated and it almost kept America from declaring independence. You keep showing ignorance of US history and really just need to quit. You should spend time educating yourself on US history rather than worrying about college athletes getting paid...smh
You can plead for me to stop all you want, but it won't do you any good.
(btw, history major here, GFY)

The analogy is still valid.
When the US declared independence, no amount of debate and cajoling could guarantee that all issues were ironed out before changing the system, but that did not stop them from changing the system.

Same holds true for college athletics.

Just because there's no way we can iron out all issues that MIGHT come about in a new system, doesn't mean a new system should not be pursued.

Thanks for playing!
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Old 04-03-2014, 07:50 AM   #77
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Default Re: Column missed its mark

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Originally Posted by gotrice? View Post
I am for the unionizing or something that allows college football and basketball players to get a slice of the pie for several reasons:

1. When these college sports started up and all the way up until the last few decades there hasn't been big money involved. The finances of the game have evolved and the compensation of the student athletes has not. These changes aren't going to happen unless universities and the NCAA are dragged along kicking and screaming otherwise we would have seen a few since the big money started rolling in.

2. It is not as if the schools treat these sports like they aren't there to make as much money as possible. Look at Texas A&M for example who destroyed one of the bigger rivalries in football by moving to the SEC. Tradition didn't mean anything in the face of a larger TV contract. Same with the Big East. If the schools can treat this like a multi-billion dollar business why can't the athletes who everyone is paying to see?

3. Academics are not prioritized for the "student" athletes. Some players are forced to change their major so they won't take classes that interfere with football or basketball. Then there are issues like blatant academic fraud like at UNC that guarantees their players will make it on the field/court but also guarantees that if they don't go pro their 4 years have been wasted. Once you damage the academic argument which is very easy to do and combine it with the hours put in the employee status these players want is very legitimate.

4. Injuries. Now that there is the money to compensate players for injuries even after their careers are over I don't see the NCAA or the individual schools stepping forward to help with the medical bills that come after the career is over that is directly related to the sport. This is something that unions are built to do and in this case it is severely needed considering the concussion issue and the violent nature of football. Then there are crazy things that happen in basketball like the Ware injury that this could apply to as well.

Things would not be going the drastic route they are headed now if the NCAA had stepped up to the plate years ago and instituted some changes that would benefit student athletes in the classroom, on the field, post-career, and financially. No changes occurred when they could have been more minor so now they are going to be anything but minor when the dust settles.

QFT
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