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Old 04-20-2014, 08:23 PM   #61
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Default Re: NBA Wants to Up Age Limit

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Originally Posted by rioninusc View Post
Actually you are wrong. The nba had a little dip after mj it was thanks to these phenominal athletes they get to feed them. If its the 5 foot 9 guy from princeton shooting fans are going to be like so what hes a mediocre sack of crap. Yeah they help create these players but these playera

S are special in their own way. To your other posts unions arent bad its corrupt people that make them bad. This players union can be the next best thing for college athletics or possibly the end depending on what happens

The NBA had a dip in the Post-Jordan era until a couple of years ago because of the iso-streetball style of play that became the norm and due to the league's shift of focus to its urban audience and tie ins to inner city culture. It alienated suburban and rural area fans.
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Old 04-20-2014, 08:24 PM   #62
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Default Re: NBA Wants to Up Age Limit

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Originally Posted by acejrock View Post
It's called supply and demand. If these "employees" didn't fill the arenas/stadiums, their "bosses" wouldn't pay them that much.

The player's union is what gets them paid that much. That and other owners want the players to make them money.
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Old 04-20-2014, 08:29 PM   #63
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Default Re: NBA Wants to Up Age Limit

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And the next big name will demand a high salary for filling the seats.

Because the NBA and media have decided that they are going to market an individual rather than a team. This has pushed into other sports too and I blame ESPN for it. Assholes. This is yet another reason why there was a dip in popularity. The league started promoting it's "stars" over teams and most people saw those guys for who they were: Ballhogging stathounds. AI, T-Mac, Jerry Stackhouse, etc. Everyone was trying to be the next Jordan, but they didn't understand why Jordan was famous. They didn't and still don't understand why those guys whom came into the league from the late 70's up til the early 90's were so famous and helped the league's popularity.

There are also external factors, but that's for another time.
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Old 04-20-2014, 08:32 PM   #64
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Default Re: NBA Wants to Up Age Limit

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Because the NBA and media have decided that they are going to market an individual rather than a team. This has pushed into other sports too and I blame ESPN for it. Assholes. This is yet another reason why there was a dip in popularity. The league started promoting it's "stars" over teams and most people saw those guys for who they were: Ballhogging stathounds. AI, T-Mac, Jerry Stackhouse, etc. Everyone was trying to be the next Jordan, but they didn't understand why Jordan was famous. They didn't and still don't understand why those guys whom came into the league from the late 70's up til the early 90's were so famous and helped the league's popularity.

There are also external factors, but that's for another time.
It's not just sports and it's not just unions. Any business, anytime there is a position, the better the talent the greater the salary. Doctor, lawyer, banker, broker, accountants, etc..
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Old 04-20-2014, 08:59 PM   #65
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Default Re: NBA Wants to Up Age Limit

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Originally Posted by Bobby Boucher View Post
You're an idiot plain and simple.

Without the NBA, LeBron would have never been famous. If you can't understand that, then you need to sign your ass off of here and go back to kindergarten.

Going further than that, the media made Jeremy Lin a name too. Yeah he had a great stream of games. So did Ronald "Flip" Murray. You know why he didn't make it big? He was in Seattle and the media didn't care. There are 3 guys in the NBA this year that averaged 20 and 10: DeMarcus Cousins, Al Jefferson, and Kevin Love. Only Kevin Love is getting any sort of attention by the media and thus endorsements. Blake Griffin gets more attention and FAR more attention than those 3 combined despite not having any measurable difference in talent level or performance.

You can be a stud, but unless you either A. Play in a huge media market B. Are one of the top 5 players in the league or C. Both, then you aren't a superstar because the media doesn't make you one.

Even if LeBron retired tomorrow and never picked up a basketball again, it wouldn't have any measurable impact on the NBA as a whole. The NBA gave LeBron the platform to be a millionaire and the media insured it. If you can't put two and two together, then that's all your fault man.

And LeBron isn't the best basketball player. Durant was slightly better last year and is clearly better this year.
You're not even arguing the same thing anymore. But right, I'm the idiot.


Please dude, stop embarrassing yourself.


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Originally Posted by ReadR00ster View Post
Someone else would be "the big name player." There is always going to be big time players because someone will always be the best.
But than the product on the floor suffers. If the stars disappeared from the game than the level of basketball would be worse. The NBA is successful as it is because its filled with the best players in the world.

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It's not just sports and it's not just unions. Any business, anytime there is a position, the better the talent the greater the salary. Doctor, lawyer, banker, broker, accountants, etc..
No point arguing with him. He clearly doesn't understand how our economy works.

You are paid what you're worth.

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The player's union is what gets them paid that much. That and other owners want the players to make them money.
That's exactly what I've been saying the entire time. They create value for the team and the owners. Therefore, they make the money they are worth. I don't know why you felt the need to go on some rant about the media and their role in this. It's irrelevant.

Than you felt the need to resort to petty insults because you're incapable of forming coherent thoughts.

Debating. You're not very good at it.

Last edited by NJCocky14; 04-20-2014 at 09:26 PM.
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Old 04-20-2014, 09:11 PM   #66
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Default Re: NBA Wants to Up Age Limit

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The player's union is what gets them paid that much. That and other owners want the players to make them money.

Exactly the players back in the day didn't make squat, and they saw how much profits the owners were bringing in, it's the same as when America started up companies were taking advantage of the employee's and then the workers united and had a voice, and the rest is history.

As I said earlier, people don't give a crap about the 5'9 Princeton ball player, they want someone like Lebron, and as far as I know there is only 1 guy like him. Why is the NBA, NFL, MLB full of the best players in the world? because the players united, and got what they were owed. They make sure the owners don't double cross them, and get their piece of that pie.
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Old 04-20-2014, 09:48 PM   #67
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Default Re: NBA Wants to Up Age Limit

I always laugh when I see people bitch about how much someone else makes.

That should be one of those things like "you know you're a douchebag when...you bitch about how much money someone else makes"
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Old 04-20-2014, 11:28 PM   #68
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Default Re: NBA Wants to Up Age Limit

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Originally Posted by acejrock View Post
It's not just sports and it's not just unions. Any business, anytime there is a position, the better the talent the greater the salary. Doctor, lawyer, banker, broker, accountants, etc..
Not always. Hell in sports we have guys making top dollar who have no business making that much relative to their peers in their own leagues. Hell A-Rod won't play this year but his salary is nearly that of some entire rosters.

Sports often pay you based on potential and other factors rather than just what you bring on the field/court. That's why a guy like Jeremy Lin can be a mediocre point and get paid top 20 point money. He brings in a name and jersey sales. That's why he gets paid $8.3 million a year while an easily superior player in Kyle Lowry is bringing in just over $6million. If they were being paid just on ability, then their salaries would be reverse. But due to the media going bananas over Jeremy Lin, he gets paid more.

And to that NJ mouthbreather, the only reason why these athletes get paid their money is due to the owners creating a platform for them to earn that money. The owners are the reason why the players make money, not the other way around. Stars come and go, but ownership stays. The league stays. You can't seem to grasp that. Wal-Mart isn't being propped up by any one employee. You really don't understand how any business works and I pray to God that my alma mater didn't waste a diploma on your ignorant ass.
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Old 04-21-2014, 09:17 AM   #69
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Default Re: NBA Wants to Up Age Limit

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Not always. Hell in sports we have guys making top dollar who have no business making that much relative to their peers in their own leagues. Hell A-Rod won't play this year but his salary is nearly that of some entire rosters.

Sports often pay you based on potential and other factors rather than just what you bring on the field/court. That's why a guy like Jeremy Lin can be a mediocre point and get paid top 20 point money. He brings in a name and jersey sales. That's why he gets paid $8.3 million a year while an easily superior player in Kyle Lowry is bringing in just over $6million. If they were being paid just on ability, then their salaries would be reverse. But due to the media going bananas over Jeremy Lin, he gets paid more.

And to that NJ mouthbreather, the only reason why these athletes get paid their money is due to the owners creating a platform for them to earn that money. The owners are the reason why the players make money, not the other way around. Stars come and go, but ownership stays. The league stays. You can't seem to grasp that. Wal-Mart isn't being propped up by any one employee. You really don't understand how any business works and I pray to God that my alma mater didn't waste a diploma on your ignorant ass.
That. Isn't. The. Argument. It doesn't matter who gives them the opportunity. In the end, it's the stars that are creating value for the owners. Whether it be Lebron or the next up and comer, they're still getting paid the millions because they're worth it.


And if you are honestly comparing an NBA team to Wal Mart than you need to get out of the public library and go back to whatever trailer park you crawled out of.

Jesus dude. Go back and read from the beginning.
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Old 04-21-2014, 09:36 AM   #70
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Default Re: NBA Wants to Up Age Limit

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That. Isn't. The. Argument. It doesn't matter who gives them the opportunity. In the end, it's the stars that are creating value for the owners. Whether it be Lebron or the next up and comer, they're still getting paid the millions because they're worth it.


And if you are honestly comparing an NBA team to Wal Mart than you need to get out of the public library and go back to whatever trailer park you crawled out of.

Jesus dude. Go back and read from the beginning.

You still don't get it. You still believe they are entitled to that money. Without the owners, they aren't worth millions, plan and simple. The owners created the platform and they created the value. With no NBA, LeBron and his name and talents aren't worth millions.
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Old 04-21-2014, 09:54 AM   #71
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Default Re: NBA Wants to Up Age Limit

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You still don't get it. You still believe they are entitled to that money. Without the owners, they aren't worth millions, plan and simple. The owners created the platform and they created the value. With no NBA, LeBron and his name and talents aren't worth millions.
IT'S NOT ABOUT "ENTITLEMENT"

thats what YOU don't get
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:28 AM   #72
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Default Re: NBA Wants to Up Age Limit

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You still don't get it. You still believe they are entitled to that money. Without the owners, they aren't worth millions, plan and simple. The owners created the platform and they created the value. With no NBA, LeBron and his name and talents aren't worth millions.
But the NBA does exist and his talents are worth millions.

Without the stars like Lebron, no one is showing up to the games. No one is buying the merchandise. No one is watching on TV. No one is paying to watch mediocre basketball. They are paying to watch the best players in the world. Without the star players, the NBA would have folded a long time ago. So yea Lebron technically needs the NBA (although he could go play oversees and make pretty good money), the NBA needs him and all the other star players just as much. I never once said they are entitled to more money than the owners, just that they deserve every cent of their contract.

But yea, you might have a point except that literally every single person involved in the NBA and anyone that knows anything about economics disagrees with you.


I understand exactly what you're trying to say. But I'm telling you that your points are stupid and irrelevant.

I feel like I'm dealing with a 5 year old.
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:42 AM   #73
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Default Re: NBA Wants to Up Age Limit

The NBA and its players are pretty much a symbiotic relationship. The NBA wouldn't be the league it is without great players, and the players wouldn't make as much money without the NBA.
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:07 PM   #74
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Default Re: NBA Wants to Up Age Limit

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But the NBA does exist and his talents are worth millions.

Without the stars like Lebron, no one is showing up to the games. No one is buying the merchandise. No one is watching on TV. No one is paying to watch mediocre basketball. They are paying to watch the best players in the world. Without the star players, the NBA would have folded a long time ago. So yea Lebron technically needs the NBA (although he could go play oversees and make pretty good money), the NBA needs him and all the other star players just as much. I never once said they are entitled to more money than the owners, just that they deserve every cent of their contract.

But yea, you might have a point except that literally every single person involved in the NBA and anyone that knows anything about economics disagrees with you.


I understand exactly what you're trying to say. But I'm telling you that your points are stupid and irrelevant.

I feel like I'm dealing with a 5 year old.
I just love how you keep shifting the goalposts because you can't admit that you are out of your element. I never said that the players as whole weren't worth it. An individual player isn't the one creating the value, it's the league as a whole that has the value. No one is going to watch LeBron and 11 YMCAers play against 12 other YMCAers. There's no value in that. He has value because the league created a system that pulls together the best players and puts them out in a way in which we can consume them and they can profit off of them. The owners created the value, not LeBron. He just benefited from their creation.

You were the one who butted in in said they were entitled to millions. Says who? They aren't entitled to squat. They are given what the owners think is fair for them. The owners don't owe them anything that they aren't willing to part with. You still can't understand that no one player is entitled to anything because one player on his own doesn't create the value. Even the most valuable player still needs legions of others to create and maintain his value - other players, coaches, trainers, arenas, tv networks, jersey manufacturers, etc.

Lets put it this way, without any organized basketball leagues on this planet, do you think LeBron would be making $50 million plus a year in salary and endorsements? No. He's making that money because of the platform that was created. Which is why the league itself is the value, not the individual player.
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:29 AM   #75
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Default Re: NBA Wants to Up Age Limit

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Lets put it this way, without any organized basketball leagues on this planet, do you think LeBron would be making $50 million plus a year in salary and endorsements? No. He's making that money because of the platform that was created. Which is why the league itself is the value, not the individual player.
The flip side is do you think there would be a successful league without the world's best players? It's a two way street where they both help each other. If all you needed was a platform MLS would be doing so much more, but they can't get the best players so the league has a ceiling.
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:53 AM   #76
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Default Re: NBA Wants to Up Age Limit

Good. NBA needs to go to the same rule as baseball. You can go straight out of high school, but if you enroll, you're there for three years. It helps the game.
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Old 04-22-2014, 03:33 PM   #77
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Default Re: NBA Wants to Up Age Limit

All for it.
Could keep the top players in college a little longer.

Could get rid of the one and dones (though some of those guys are 19 when they graduate HS and 20 after their first year of college).
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Old 04-22-2014, 04:03 PM   #78
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Default Re: NBA Wants to Up Age Limit

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That. Isn't. The. Argument. It doesn't matter who gives them the opportunity. In the end, it's the stars that are creating value for the owners. Whether it be Lebron or the next up and comer, they're still getting paid the millions because they're worth it.


And if you are honestly comparing an NBA team to Wal Mart than you need to get out of the public library and go back to whatever trailer park you crawled out of.

Jesus dude. Go back and read from the beginning.
Stars come and go. The NBA is doing fine without Jordan and Pippen, and Malone, and it will do fine without Kobe, Lebron, and Durant. All it does is make run for the next man up like just like those before them made way for them. At the end of the day owners want to win a championship and sell tickets so they will spend big bucks on whoever is the best available.
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Old 04-22-2014, 04:40 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by palmettosc View Post
The flip side is do you think there would be a successful league without the world's best players? It's a two way street where they both help each other. If all you needed was a platform MLS would be doing so much more, but they can't get the best players so the league has a ceiling.

Well you are still assuming that the best guy in the NBA is the best guy in the world. Maybe it's some guy in South America that doesn't have access to the game. Maybe it's some guy out in the bush in Africa that doesn't even have clothes yet. See that's the thing, the only reason why these guys can demonstrate that they are the best in the world is that they are given the platform to do so. Without this platform, without college, they wouldn't be proving themselves as the best in the world. So that's why I said they aren't entitled to shit.
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Old 04-22-2014, 05:03 PM   #80
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Default Re: NBA Wants to Up Age Limit

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Originally Posted by Bobby Boucher View Post
Well you are still assuming that the best guy in the NBA is the best guy in the world. Maybe it's some guy in South America that doesn't have access to the game. Maybe it's some guy out in the bush in Africa that doesn't even have clothes yet. See that's the thing, the only reason why these guys can demonstrate that they are the best in the world is that they are given the platform to do so. Without this platform, without college, they wouldn't be proving themselves as the best in the world. So that's why I said they aren't entitled to shit.
If they don't play the game, then they aren't the best players, or even players. As I've said before, the league and star players need each other. One will not function without the other.
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