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Old 04-28-2014, 12:01 AM   #21
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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Originally Posted by Thenardier View Post
Probably would use a regular DT.
So two DE's A DT, and linebacker rolled up to the line? At that point why bother. .. I just don't get it...

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Old 04-28-2014, 12:02 AM   #22
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

3-4 defenses normally use big (over 235) outside linebackers, which we don't have. I'd be surprised to see it much. It's not outside what we've done before, but most of that involved a standup DE like Norwood or Ingram a yard or two off the line.
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Old 04-28-2014, 12:06 AM   #23
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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3-4 defenses normally use big (over 235) outside linebackers, which we don't have. I'd be surprised to see it much. It's not outside what we've done before, but most of that involved a standup DE like Norwood or Ingram a yard or two off the line.
As you mentioned, because we lack size with our LB, the 3-4 will be used more often in passing situations and this defense gives us a better opportunity to put pressure on the QB.
Remember we don't know who our starting DE will be this year and won't know until after summer practice.
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Old 04-28-2014, 12:08 AM   #24
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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3-4 defenses normally use big (over 235) outside linebackers, which we don't have. I'd be surprised to see it much. It's not outside what we've done before, but most of that involved a standup DE like Norwood or Ingram a yard or two off the line.
I could see it as a type of rabbit package for obvious passing situations, but I think that it will get blown up with run plays...

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Old 04-28-2014, 12:26 AM   #25
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

I think we will have 2 (maybe 3) DE's who can seal the edge against the run this year (Dixon44, D Johnson, and maybe Thomas). If any of the DT's can demand doubles or push the middle, we may be able to keep blockers off our linebackers. Griffin and Lamin are both seen as quick for DT's, and Surrat has developed into a good player. I just hope the big guys (Dixon and Dukes) can get a good push. We could conceivably rely on using our depth at DT as a weapon to keep constant pressure in the trenches. We likely won't have star power to rely on (as with Clowney and Quarles). Coach Ward appears to see a varied toolbag as our biggest asset with a bunch of developing guys contributing.
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Old 04-28-2014, 12:44 AM   #26
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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So two DE's A DT, and linebacker rolled up to the line? At that point why bother. .. I just don't get it...

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The 3-4 gives us a lot more flexibility where we can bring pressure from, especially with different personnel packages which will be different from our 4-3.....it keeps fresh legs in the game and is much harder for offenses to attack because of all the different looks with different players.

I'm still worried that our players won't be able to totally grasp the scheme and therefore won't be able to play "fast" because they may be unsure of everybody's assignment.
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Old 04-28-2014, 10:05 AM   #27
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

We have a lot of hybrid type athletic guys with no one place that they fit neatly into.

-guys who are little too big for a lb but are quick enough to play there a little bit in running situations

-guys who are a little too small to play with their hand in the ground, but are strong and rush the passer well.

Coach ward is trying to find ways to get the best athletes on the field. Of which we hav a lot of.
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Old 04-28-2014, 10:33 AM   #28
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

Was it Ellis or Strong who had the no down lineman defense to counter the spread?
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Old 04-28-2014, 10:43 AM   #29
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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whammy has said our 3-4 won't necessarily have a NT.....just bring the 4th LB on the weak side to the LOS. This LB is going to be called "The Bob" and BAW is the perfect fit for the position. whammy also said the 3-4 will not be our base defense.
What is the story behind that nickname?

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Was it Ellis or Strong who had the no down lineman defense to counter the spread?
I don't recall Strong used it. I do remember Ellis having all the linemen standing for a few plays. They called it the chaos package or something.

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3-4 defenses normally use big (over 235) outside linebackers, which we don't have. I'd be surprised to see it much. It's not outside what we've done before, but most of that involved a standup DE like Norwood or Ingram a yard or two off the line.
Seems like Cooper would be ideal for a 4-3 outside backer, maybe English as well but he might be a tad large.
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Old 04-28-2014, 10:47 AM   #30
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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Was it Ellis or Strong who had the no down lineman defense to counter the spread?

Seems like it was Tyrone Nix but it may have been John Thompson's idea.
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Old 04-28-2014, 11:37 AM   #31
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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We have a lot of hybrid type athletic guys with no one place that they fit neatly into.

-guys who are little too big for a lb but are quick enough to play there a little bit in running situations

-guys who are a little too small to play with their hand in the ground, but are strong and rush the passer well.

Coach ward is trying to find ways to get the best athletes on the field. Of which we hav a lot of.
Our hybrid guys seem to me more like overgrown safeties playing linebacker. Unless you have the tackling and diagnosing skills of an Antonio Allen or the size/quickness of D Holloman you are going to struggle at spur. At middle (Mike), we've needed the straight-up saavy of Shaq Wilson to make up for lack of size. At weak-side, we've played fast/quick guys under 220 who make tackles, but get pushed back. At DE, we've got Dixon44, who grew the weight needed but is short by our standards, D Johnson who has grown to 280 and is considerd gifted but unproven, and English, who is tall, strong, and only lately getting to SEC DE size. Cooper, Harris, and Washington are small LB guys training for DE. Perhaps standing them up a yard back would let them use their quickness to avoid blockers. They likely could not line up across from a DT and not get pushed back or out of a running lane. I'm hoping Thomas comes in ready to play and can be effective against the run and can pass rush.
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Old 04-28-2014, 01:02 PM   #32
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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Yes....a DT and DE on one side and a DT/DE and LB on the other. The 3-4 also gives us a better chance to get Moore and Walton on the field at the same time.
Exactly. This is a big reason for it. To get Skai and Walton on the field at the same time because Walton is too good to not be playing a lot
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Old 04-28-2014, 02:27 PM   #33
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

I like the old John Madden goaline defense where 2 DB's drop off in the flat. Bring Skai Moore everytime. Chaz can be roamer in the middle. Done deal.
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Old 04-28-2014, 02:47 PM   #34
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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Exactly. This is a big reason for it. To get Skai and Walton on the field at the same time because Walton is too good to not be playing a lot
Skai Moore is a good player and will likely be special. He still has a long way to go to become a run stopper, as well as tackler. Walton may, indeed be very good, and he will be playing if he's that good. I don't see the likelihood of those two sealing the edges in a 3-4 scheme. Walton has the weight and seems to be an up-and-coming sophomore. Watch for one or two spurs to grow into outside linebackers and possibly Walton to eventually move inside if he keeps improving. We usually use our MLB to read and call, and if he has the mental apspects well-in-hand, he may become that field general.
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Old 04-28-2014, 04:02 PM   #35
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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Yes....a DT and DE on one side and a DT/DE and LB on the other. The 3-4 also gives us a better chance to get Moore and Walton on the field at the same time.
Don't forget Bryant who was all over the place in the spring.
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Old 04-28-2014, 04:05 PM   #36
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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Our hybrid guys seem to me more like overgrown safeties playing linebacker. Unless you have the tackling and diagnosing skills of an Antonio Allen or the size/quickness of D Holloman you are going to struggle at spur. At middle (Mike), we've needed the straight-up saavy of Shaq Wilson to make up for lack of size. At weak-side, we've played fast/quick guys under 220 who make tackles, but get pushed back. At DE, we've got Dixon44, who grew the weight needed but is short by our standards, D Johnson who has grown to 280 and is considerd gifted but unproven, and English, who is tall, strong, and only lately getting to SEC DE size. Cooper, Harris, and Washington are small LB guys training for DE. Perhaps standing them up a yard back would let them use their quickness to avoid blockers. They likely could not line up across from a DT and not get pushed back or out of a running lane. I'm hoping Thomas comes in ready to play and can be effective against the run and can pass rush.

That is one person everyone seems to be forgetting about...Jhaustin Thomas has the size of an SEC DE (6'6, 260) and could be that can help spell English, or he could be the DE in our 3-4 set...depending on how his fundamentals are..David Johnson is another guy I see that can be that DE player in the 3-4 being 280 lbs.
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Old 04-28-2014, 04:09 PM   #37
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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If it's a 3-4 and according to the above post they would not be using a NT....that leaves 2...

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If there's only two down linemen then it wouldn't be a 3-4... it would be a 2-something else.
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Old 04-28-2014, 05:04 PM   #38
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

The scheme we've ran since Lorenzo Ward has been here (and Ellis Johnson) has been very versatile.
In a 4-2-5 you can essentially run a 4-3 with the spur coming up as an OLB, a 3-4 with a Defensive linemen dropping to OLB and the Spur coming up in the box, a 4-4 with 1 high safety, a 5-2 by bringing a LB up to the LOS. Really helps disguise looks pre/post snap. Having 5 defensive backs on the field get's more speed on the field, you just need a physical/versatile player at that Spur position. A guy that can cover in space with a quick WR, as well as come up in the box and stop the run. We have ran a lot of 3-4 over the last few years actually. Just maybe not exclusively like some teams.

I've learned to trust Lorenzo Ward over the last few years. Even if something isn't quite clicking, adjustments are always correctly made at the right times. Some players don't always seem like the best fits at certain positions in regard to size but it always tends to work out.
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Old 04-28-2014, 06:40 PM   #39
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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If it's a 3-4 and according to the above post they would not be using a NT....that leaves 2...

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DT lines up in the "A-gap" instead of over the Center and walk a LB down. Not a pure 3-4 but a Whammy hybrid. If one of our LBs can handle the other "A-gap" I feel a little better about this alignment. But heck, what do I know. In Whammy We Trust!
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Old 04-28-2014, 08:28 PM   #40
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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What is the story behind that nickname?



I don't recall Strong used it. I do remember Ellis having all the linemen standing for a few plays. They called it the chaos package or something.



Seems like Cooper would be ideal for a 4-3 outside backer, maybe English as well but he might be a tad large.
Bob stands for "Big Old Backer".
According to Whammy, BAW fits the position perfectly.

The reason Cooper was moved to DE was that he struggled with LB assignments.
I don't see him playing a lot this year......perhaps a minor role.
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