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Old 04-29-2014, 09:16 PM   #61
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GamecockSuperFan View Post
Yeah. Saban's defense is always getting gashed by the run.


Cockytalk has these discussions every off season when a coach says we're going to implement new stuff. We run the 4-2-5. A versatile scheme which allows you to show many different looks. We aren't coming out in 3-4 every down. We will show it. Just like we'll show looks from 3-3-5, 4-4, 4-3. The Spur position allows you to do different things.
Alabama's roster shows 9 linebackers over 240 and 4 over 255. Their linebacking corps outweighs our present DE's by over 10 per man. 3 of our 6 linebackers are over 230, and the heaviest is 237. I don't imagine our facing a strong running team in a 3-4, unless we're pulling a DE off the line.
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Old 04-29-2014, 09:26 PM   #62
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

honestly i think he may say 3-4 because everybody else is saying 3-4, because its easier than saying 3-3-5 all the time.
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Old 04-29-2014, 09:28 PM   #63
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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Originally Posted by Goofyboy View Post
Alabama's roster shows 9 linebackers over 240 and 4 over 255. Their linebacking corps outweighs our present DE's by over 10 per man. 3 of our 6 linebackers are over 230, and the heaviest is 237. I don't imagine our facing a strong running team in a 3-4, unless we're pulling a DE off the line.
smh still not understanding
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Old 04-29-2014, 09:53 PM   #64
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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Guys, it's only for pass rush situations. That's it.
I don't think people get that.
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Old 04-29-2014, 10:02 PM   #65
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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Originally Posted by USCNowAndForever View Post
You never want to put a runner "1v1" with a defender. This isn't basketball. If that defender is even moderately competent at his job, he will tackle the runner and stop him with little to no gain, or even stop him for a loss.

Do you watch football?
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Old 04-29-2014, 10:48 PM   #66
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

The defense you guys are talking about is a hybrid 4-3. A 3-4 has to have a NT to be called a 3-4 at the NT must be huge to fill up space(period). The reason a 3-4 is effective is that it takes 2 maybe 3 to block a NT on the and allows the (4th) LB/DE to come in unexpected into the line. By the time line figures out which LB is dropping down to the line it is to late to block and that is why you have LB's with more QB sacks than the traditional DE's & DT's and the MLB having more stops at the line when the run is between the T's. The NT must be a HOSS for a 3-4 to work period. Look at Alabama vs Georgia. Those ridden with fleas have yet to get there HOSS and thus the run more of a 4-3 with an attempt of trying to line someone over center. The usually bring a LB up right before they think the ball is snapped unlike a 3-4 of rushing an LB when the ball is snapped.
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Old 04-29-2014, 10:58 PM   #67
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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Originally Posted by Cocked & Locked View Post
The defense you guys are talking about is a hybrid 4-3. A 3-4 has to have a NT to be called a 3-4 at the NT must be huge to fill up space(period). The reason a 3-4 is effective is that it takes 2 maybe 3 to block a NT on the and allows the (4th) LB/DE to come in unexpected into the line. By the time line figures out which LB is dropping down to the line it is to late to block and that is why you have LB's with more QB sacks than the traditional DE's & DT's and the MLB having more stops at the line when the run is between the T's. The NT must be a HOSS for a 3-4 to work period. Look at Alabama vs Georgia. Those ridden with fleas have yet to get there HOSS and thus the run more of a 4-3 with an attempt of trying to line someone over center. The usually bring a LB up right before they think the ball is snapped unlike a 3-4 of rushing an LB when the ball is snapped.

3-4 is 3-4. It's a personnel package, not a play design. It's 3 DL 4 LB. Some people are really over complicating this.
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Old 04-29-2014, 11:20 PM   #68
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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Originally Posted by Cock Kool-Aid View Post
3-4 is 3-4. It's a personnel package, not a play design. It's 3 DL 4 LB. Some people are really over complicating this.
You are sooooo smart! DUH!

That is exactly what I was saying, but you need to learn that there is more to it than just 3 DL's and 4 LB's. Might as well say there is a 11 on defense and we can dumb it down even more - right?
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Old 04-29-2014, 11:28 PM   #69
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

I think what Ward is really saying is that we have some smart linebackers.
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Old 04-29-2014, 11:34 PM   #70
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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Originally Posted by Cocked & Locked View Post
You are sooooo smart! DUH!

That is exactly what I was saying, but you need to learn that there is more to it than just 3 DL's and 4 LB's. Might as well say there is a 11 on defense and we can dumb it down even more - right?
we aren't going to be running a straight 3-4 with a NT. We are going to be running hybrid.
see above couple of pages.
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Old 04-29-2014, 11:36 PM   #71
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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Originally Posted by Cocked & Locked View Post
You are sooooo smart! DUH!

That is exactly what I was saying, but you need to learn that there is more to it than just 3 DL's and 4 LB's. Might as well say there is a 11 on defense and we can dumb it down even more - right?
Wait! What?!!? Eleven?!?! 11 LB's or 11 DT's?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrCPIrs90eg
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Old 04-29-2014, 11:46 PM   #72
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

So, to sum this up, sometimes, in certain specific situations, we are going to have three men down on the line unless we have four or two or five with one standing unless we have one down and three lined up directly behind him.

OOO! OOO! OOO! They could build a pyramid and have one guy just running around screaming "Help me Jesus! Help me Jewish God! Help me Allah! AAAAAHHH! Help me, Tom Cruise! Tom Cruise, use your witchcraft on me to get the fire off me!" That should be pretty effective against the run, but what do I know?
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Old 04-30-2014, 02:05 AM   #73
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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Originally Posted by USCNowAndForever View Post
The defense has six people in the box. The offense has five blockers.

Who has the T? Who has the J? I assume by pulling the RG, you mean will they will pull and pick up the S, ala the "Power" play, correct?

You never want to put a runner "1v1" with a defender. This isn't basketball. If that defender is even moderately competent at his job, he will tackle the runner and stop him with little to no gain, or even stop him for a loss.
*Facepalm
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Old 04-30-2014, 04:41 AM   #74
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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Originally Posted by Thenardier View Post
*Facepalm
What?

It's one deal to leave a defender unblocked and option off of them (if that's what you were suggesting, you made no mention of it), or to leave a defender unblocked that is out of the box (if you were talking about the F, my apologies; there are 3 safeties in the 4-2-5, so I think at the time I was thinking you meant the S or $) or is aligned on the backside of the play, but it's another deal entirely to leave a defender aligned on the playside unblocked and put the runner on that defender "1v1". We have blocking schemes, option plays, etc, for a reason.

Would you care to list some common running plays where the runner is matched up "1v1" against an unblocked defender?
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Old 04-30-2014, 10:10 AM   #75
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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Originally Posted by rdwylie View Post
Wait! What?!!? Eleven?!?! 11 LB's or 11 DT's?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrCPIrs90eg
Only Clemson is allowed to have 11 LB's. Look at their incoming recruiting class.
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Old 05-02-2014, 10:47 AM   #76
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

To answer your long winded pm USCNow I meant F, I know not to leave a runner 1vs1 with a lineman. If you look back at the blocking I mentioned you'll see I accounted for the linemen and LBs.
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Old 05-02-2014, 01:53 PM   #77
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

Did anyone else get a scary PM from USCNowAndForever?

"Your trashtalk
I (indirectly) addressed your "Do you watch football?" comment in the thread about 3-4 looks in 2014. I don't know if you didn't see it; usually after a few days people lose interest in a thread, so if you didn't reply because you stopped following the thread, i certainly understand that.

But if you saw it and didn't respond, is there a reason?

You basically implied that I don't know what I am talking about. If you are so much smarter than me, especially to the point that you thought it was necessary to make a condescending post directed towards me, then why don't you start listing plays where the runner is put into a "1v1" situation with an unblocked defender?

thenardier's suggestion of placing the runner 1v1 with the F in the 4-2-5/3-4 hybrid is not considered a 1v1 matchup because the F is not in the immediate vicinity of the play.

When he said "1v1", he was describing a situation where a player such as the playside DE or playside linebacker is left unblocked and the runner is expected to try to outmaneuver and/or outrun that defender.

If you know anything about football, you know that such an idea is crazy, because the defender is too near where the play is going, and consequently, they are in position to make an easy stop before the runner can get on the move.

Why do you think teams use option plays and option off of players like the playside DE?

One of Auburn's main plays is the Inverted Veer. In that play, the QB reads the playside DE and makes a decision based on the action of the playside DE. Why go to the trouble of having the QB read the playside DE? Why not just leave the playside DE unblocked, have the QB hand off to the running back, and match the running back up on the playside DE "1v1"? Why not? Because it would get blown up 9/10 by even a moderately competent DE.

Look at Auburn's national championship game against Oregon.

Oregon tried to run Midline, an option play, against Auburn, and Nick Fairley blew the play up by simply crashing the hand-off point. Do you think that would have gone any better for Oregon if Oregon had left Fairley unblocked and matched up the RB on Fairley 1v1? I don't think so.

If you want to talk smack, you have to be able to back it up."

Running backs are in one on one situations with defenders and beat the defender A LOT. That's why I asked if you watch football. You put a RB in space vs one defender of any type, and the sharp money is on the RB. Your intial post did not clarify that you are talking about blowing an assignment and letting a DL blow the ball carrier up as soon as he gets the ball. Obviously that's not a good idea.

Go apply for coaching jobs or write a book about football strategy and stop wasting your time annoying people on Cockytalk by trying to show off how learned you are on the topic of football.
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Old 05-02-2014, 02:04 PM   #78
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cock Kool-Aid View Post
Did anyone else get a scary PM from USCNowAndForever?

"Your trashtalk
I (indirectly) addressed your "Do you watch football?" comment in the thread about 3-4 looks in 2014. I don't know if you didn't see it; usually after a few days people lose interest in a thread, so if you didn't reply because you stopped following the thread, i certainly understand that.

But if you saw it and didn't respond, is there a reason?

You basically implied that I don't know what I am talking about. If you are so much smarter than me, especially to the point that you thought it was necessary to make a condescending post directed towards me, then why don't you start listing plays where the runner is put into a "1v1" situation with an unblocked defender?

thenardier's suggestion of placing the runner 1v1 with the F in the 4-2-5/3-4 hybrid is not considered a 1v1 matchup because the F is not in the immediate vicinity of the play.

When he said "1v1", he was describing a situation where a player such as the playside DE or playside linebacker is left unblocked and the runner is expected to try to outmaneuver and/or outrun that defender.

If you know anything about football, you know that such an idea is crazy, because the defender is too near where the play is going, and consequently, they are in position to make an easy stop before the runner can get on the move.

Why do you think teams use option plays and option off of players like the playside DE?

One of Auburn's main plays is the Inverted Veer. In that play, the QB reads the playside DE and makes a decision based on the action of the playside DE. Why go to the trouble of having the QB read the playside DE? Why not just leave the playside DE unblocked, have the QB hand off to the running back, and match the running back up on the playside DE "1v1"? Why not? Because it would get blown up 9/10 by even a moderately competent DE.

Look at Auburn's national championship game against Oregon.

Oregon tried to run Midline, an option play, against Auburn, and Nick Fairley blew the play up by simply crashing the hand-off point. Do you think that would have gone any better for Oregon if Oregon had left Fairley unblocked and matched up the RB on Fairley 1v1? I don't think so.

If you want to talk smack, you have to be able to back it up."

Running backs are in one on one situations with defenders and beat the defender A LOT. That's why I asked if you watch football. You put a RB in space vs one defender of any type, and the sharp money is on the RB. Your intial post did not clarify that you are talking about blowing an assignment and letting a DL blow the ball carrier up as soon as he gets the ball. Obviously that's not a good idea.

Go apply for coaching jobs or write a book about football strategy and stop wasting your time annoying people on Cockytalk by trying to show off how learned you are on the topic of football.
Yeah, dude's weird, lol.
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Old 05-03-2014, 12:42 AM   #79
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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To answer your long winded pm USCNow I meant F, I know not to leave a runner 1vs1 with a lineman. If you look back at the blocking I mentioned you'll see I accounted for the linemen and LBs.
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Tackle takes the end. Center takes the NT. Guard takes the LB and pull the RG. RB would 1v1 with the safety.
Who has the J? You didn't say who has the J. I would assume it's the playside tackle, but then who has the T?

I tried explaining this to you earlier. The 4-2-5/3-4 hybrid puts 6 defenders in the box, so unless you option off one of those defenders (you made no mention of this), you will always be outnumbered because you only have 5 blockers in the box (the 5 offensive linemen).

Of course, you could sub an H-back in for the RB and have them block as well, and run your QB, but you didn't mention that either.

You still have not addressed my question about the New England Patriots getting gashed by the run when they have ran the 4-3/3-4 hybrid (which is similar to the 4-2-5/3-4 hybrid).

You claimed that it would get gashed by the run, so do you have any real life, on-field evidence that it would get gashed by the run?
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Old 05-03-2014, 12:50 AM   #80
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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Did anyone else get a scary PM from USCNowAndForever?

"Your trashtalk
I (indirectly) addressed your "Do you watch football?" comment in the thread about 3-4 looks in 2014. I don't know if you didn't see it; usually after a few days people lose interest in a thread, so if you didn't reply because you stopped following the thread, i certainly understand that.

But if you saw it and didn't respond, is there a reason?

You basically implied that I don't know what I am talking about. If you are so much smarter than me, especially to the point that you thought it was necessary to make a condescending post directed towards me, then why don't you start listing plays where the runner is put into a "1v1" situation with an unblocked defender?

thenardier's suggestion of placing the runner 1v1 with the F in the 4-2-5/3-4 hybrid is not considered a 1v1 matchup because the F is not in the immediate vicinity of the play.

When he said "1v1", he was describing a situation where a player such as the playside DE or playside linebacker is left unblocked and the runner is expected to try to outmaneuver and/or outrun that defender.

If you know anything about football, you know that such an idea is crazy, because the defender is too near where the play is going, and consequently, they are in position to make an easy stop before the runner can get on the move.

Why do you think teams use option plays and option off of players like the playside DE?

One of Auburn's main plays is the Inverted Veer. In that play, the QB reads the playside DE and makes a decision based on the action of the playside DE. Why go to the trouble of having the QB read the playside DE? Why not just leave the playside DE unblocked, have the QB hand off to the running back, and match the running back up on the playside DE "1v1"? Why not? Because it would get blown up 9/10 by even a moderately competent DE.

Look at Auburn's national championship game against Oregon.

Oregon tried to run Midline, an option play, against Auburn, and Nick Fairley blew the play up by simply crashing the hand-off point. Do you think that would have gone any better for Oregon if Oregon had left Fairley unblocked and matched up the RB on Fairley 1v1? I don't think so.

If you want to talk smack, you have to be able to back it up."
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Running backs are in one on one situations with defenders and beat the defender A LOT. That's why I asked if you watch football. You put a RB in space vs one defender of any type, and the sharp money is on the RB.
When thenardier originally said "1v1", it sounded like he was saying that the running back would be matched up on someone not in space. I agree that the money is on a running back to beat defenders in space. But...That's not what I was addressing.

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Your intial post did not clarify that you are talking about blowing an assignment and letting a DL blow the ball carrier up as soon as he gets the ball. Obviously that's not a good idea.
That's not what I'm talking about...I'm talking about intentionally leaving a defender unblocked and trying to let the runner outmaneuver and/or outrun them. If you go back and read what I said about Nick Fairley, I was talking about Midline, which is an option play where an interior defensive lineman is left unblocked and the QB reads the action of the lineman to determine if they will hand off to the RB or keep the football. I was *not* talking about blowing an assignment.

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Go apply for coaching jobs or write a book about football strategy and stop wasting your time annoying people on Cockytalk by trying to show off how learned you are on the topic of football.
I'm trying to fight the football ignorance on this site.
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