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Old 05-03-2014, 02:31 AM   #81
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

You know, I think it's a very good thing that we're having a little serious Xs and Os talk around here. It's the offseason, after all. What else are we supposed to do?

I watched some of Oklahoma's games from last season to see what they were doing on defense since that's where Whammy went to look at some of this hybrid 3-4 stuff (I haven't had a chance to look at Strong's Louisville squad yet). They really did an outstanding job of getting a speedy hybrid-type LB/DL player -- kind of like what Whammy seems to be talking about with this "BOB" position and BAW -- into the backfield on pass rushing situations. They brought a lot of edge pressure by creating a speed vs. size mismatch on the boundary. What surprised me a lot is how effective they were at doing this without a lot of pre-snap motion. That's not to say that they stayed "base" and made the reads easy for the offense, but it wasn't as flashy as I somehow thought it would all look. It was pretty classic Stoops defensive ball: solid, fundamentally-sound defense that wasn't afraid to hit or get aggressive. It just looked a little different than the classic Stoops 4-3 look.

Now, I feel better about our secondary after the glowing spring ball reports I've been reading (though I recall reading some similar reports last season about how our young LBs were going to really surprise us all), but our defensive end situation is REALLY concerning to me. Frankly, the fact that Coach Ward has prepped a new pass rush package suggests he's genuinely concerned about our ability to generate a pass rush, too. As such, we all ought to be VERY eager to see how this 3-4/3-3-5 hybrid situational package we're working on turns out. We may need it to avoid tricky shootouts with those first two pass-happy teams coming into the Brice. And that's just for starters!

Coach Ward has done a terrific job his first two seasons; indeed, a far better job than I initially expected. But his job was made a lot easier with a defensive line that was loaded with NFL talent. I have a feeling that this is the season where he's really going to have to bust out some inventive Xs and Os to help shore up and/or cover for some of our deficiencies up front. Not only do we face some really pass happy spread teams (A&M), we've got to play a couple of real power teams, too (UGA, Auburn). This defense is going to have to be multiple and smart. It sounds like we're going to be multiple. Will we be smart? Time will tell. And will we be talented enough up front and in the back? Well, we are who we are, so we'd better hope so. Regardless, it sounds like Whammy is doing everything he can to make sure we'll be as ready as we possibly can be for what's coming. As such, I take him at his word that we can expect to see more blitzes, more movement, and some different looks than what we've shown in the past. If we can't get to them with out front four, we'll find other ways to do it. But it sure as hell doesn't sound like we'll be volunteering to play on our heels.
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Old 05-03-2014, 06:48 AM   #82
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

It's not the X's and O's... It's the Jimmies and Joes. :)
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Old 05-03-2014, 04:55 PM   #83
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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Originally Posted by Cock Kool-Aid View Post
It's not the X's and O's... It's the Jimmies and Joes. :)
Pretty sure it's both, actually.
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Old 05-03-2014, 07:02 PM   #84
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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Originally Posted by Cock Kool-Aid View Post
It's not the X's and O's... It's the Jimmies and Joes. :)
Now this I agree with (Surprisingly, I'm sure. Lol)

Games are won in the weight room, not on the whiteboard.

With that said, if a team that has their Jimmies and Joes and their X's and O's locked down goes against a team that only has their Jimmies and Joes locked down, the former team will probably have the advantage.
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Old 05-03-2014, 07:12 PM   #85
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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Originally Posted by War Rooster View Post
You know, I think it's a very good thing that we're having a little serious Xs and Os talk around here. It's the offseason, after all. What else are we supposed to do?

I watched some of Oklahoma's games from last season to see what they were doing on defense since that's where Whammy went to look at some of this hybrid 3-4 stuff (I haven't had a chance to look at Strong's Louisville squad yet). They really did an outstanding job of getting a speedy hybrid-type LB/DL player -- kind of like what Whammy seems to be talking about with this "BOB" position and BAW -- into the backfield on pass rushing situations. They brought a lot of edge pressure by creating a speed vs. size mismatch on the boundary. What surprised me a lot is how effective they were at doing this without a lot of pre-snap motion. That's not to say that they stayed "base" and made the reads easy for the offense, but it wasn't as flashy as I somehow thought it would all look. It was pretty classic Stoops defensive ball: solid, fundamentally-sound defense that wasn't afraid to hit or get aggressive. It just looked a little different than the classic Stoops 4-3 look.

Now, I feel better about our secondary after the glowing spring ball reports I've been reading (though I recall reading some similar reports last season about how our young LBs were going to really surprise us all), but our defensive end situation is REALLY concerning to me. Frankly, the fact that Coach Ward has prepped a new pass rush package suggests he's genuinely concerned about our ability to generate a pass rush, too. As such, we all ought to be VERY eager to see how this 3-4/3-3-5 hybrid situational package we're working on turns out. We may need it to avoid tricky shootouts with those first two pass-happy teams coming into the Brice. And that's just for starters!

Coach Ward has done a terrific job his first two seasons; indeed, a far better job than I initially expected. But his job was made a lot easier with a defensive line that was loaded with NFL talent. I have a feeling that this is the season where he's really going to have to bust out some inventive Xs and Os to help shore up and/or cover for some of our deficiencies up front. Not only do we face some really pass happy spread teams (A&M), we've got to play a couple of real power teams, too (UGA, Auburn). This defense is going to have to be multiple and smart. It sounds like we're going to be multiple. Will we be smart? Time will tell. And will we be talented enough up front and in the back? Well, we are who we are, so we'd better hope so. Regardless, it sounds like Whammy is doing everything he can to make sure we'll be as ready as we possibly can be for what's coming. As such, I take him at his word that we can expect to see more blitzes, more movement, and some different looks than what we've shown in the past. If we can't get to them with out front four, we'll find other ways to do it. But it sure as hell doesn't sound like we'll be volunteering to play on our heels.
It's still not clear to me what exactly we are supposedly going to be doing.

I've heard all kinds of stuff.

From what I've gathered, one of our 4-2-5 DEs is going to be able to shift to outside linebacker, thus shifting the defense into a 3-3-5 look.

Is this correct?

Or is a pass rushing specialist going to be subbed in for one of the 4-2-5 DEs?
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Old 05-04-2014, 02:04 AM   #86
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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Originally Posted by USCNowAndForever View Post
It's still not clear to me what exactly we are supposedly going to be doing.

I've heard all kinds of stuff.

From what I've gathered, one of our 4-2-5 DEs is going to be able to shift to outside linebacker, thus shifting the defense into a 3-3-5 look.

Is this correct?

Or is a pass rushing specialist going to be subbed in for one of the 4-2-5 DEs?
I'm not sure that any of us outside of the football program will know the specifics on what is in this pass rush package that Coach Ward is putting together before we take the field against Texas A&M. I wouldn't expect Coach Ward to get that specific in talking about this, nor would I want him to be that specific!

What I can tell you is this: Oklahoma put a pass rushing specialist on the line a lot -- sometimes in a bit of an unbalanced look. That specialist had the size and speed of a LB more than a DE, though. Their game against Texas Tech is on YouTube if you want to check out what they did against a pass happy team. I would assume that we'll do similar things since Oklahoma is where Coach Ward went to get some ideas. I would also suspect that we'll show some of that more traditional 3-3-5 look in this package as well, though. Why else would Whammy have gone to talk to Charlie Strong?

Anyway, in the absence of specifics, I think it's fair to say that our 3-4 hybrid package (whatever it ends up getting called) will have a couple of different formation alignments, and that it will then have a couple of blitz/coverage options off of each formation alignment. Well, enough for us to be able to run the package about, what, 25% of the snaps each game? That seems about right, yeah?
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Old 05-04-2014, 09:08 PM   #87
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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I'm not sure that any of us outside of the football program will know the specifics on what is in this pass rush package that Coach Ward is putting together before we take the field against Texas A&M. I wouldn't expect Coach Ward to get that specific in talking about this, nor would I want him to be that specific!

What I can tell you is this: Oklahoma put a pass rushing specialist on the line a lot -- sometimes in a bit of an unbalanced look. That specialist had the size and speed of a LB more than a DE, though. Their game against Texas Tech is on YouTube if you want to check out what they did against a pass happy team. I would assume that we'll do similar things since Oklahoma is where Coach Ward went to get some ideas. I would also suspect that we'll show some of that more traditional 3-3-5 look in this package as well, though. Why else would Whammy have gone to talk to Charlie Strong?

Anyway, in the absence of specifics, I think it's fair to say that our 3-4 hybrid package (whatever it ends up getting called) will have a couple of different formation alignments, and that it will then have a couple of blitz/coverage options off of each formation alignment. Well, enough for us to be able to run the package about, what, 25% of the snaps each game? That seems about right, yeah?
Why spend teaching time, player brain power, and practice reps on installing a 3-4 package when you could just sub the pass rushing specialist into one of the 4-2-5 DE spots in obvious passing situations? That way the 4-2-5 nose tackle, defensive tackle, and other defensive end don't have to learn and practice a whole new setup. Just run the 4-2-5 on passing downs with a pass rushing specialist subbed in for the end that is the lesser pass rusher of the two ends.

Sometimes college coaches outsmart themselves.

In the same way that some NFL coaches are learning from college coaches, college coaches could stand to learn from HS coaches. The best HS coaches are the ones who keep it simple and emphasize fundamentals over scheme (not to the exclusion of scheme, but fundamentals come first, and they keep their scheme simple).
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Old 05-05-2014, 12:35 AM   #88
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

There is mostly a different personnel group for each defense. The 3-4 allows Skai and Walton on the field at the same time. Also, the additional LB fits BAW perfectly. This gives us at least 2 speed rushers off the edge that we don't have in the 4-2. This will be run mostly in passing situations. There are also many more variables with the 3-4.
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Old 05-05-2014, 01:56 AM   #89
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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Originally Posted by USCNowAndForever View Post
Why spend teaching time, player brain power, and practice reps on installing a 3-4 package when you could just sub the pass rushing specialist into one of the 4-2-5 DE spots in obvious passing situations? That way the 4-2-5 nose tackle, defensive tackle, and other defensive end don't have to learn and practice a whole new setup. Just run the 4-2-5 on passing downs with a pass rushing specialist subbed in for the end that is the lesser pass rusher of the two ends.

Sometimes college coaches outsmart themselves.

In the same way that some NFL coaches are learning from college coaches, college coaches could stand to learn from HS coaches. The best HS coaches are the ones who keep it simple and emphasize fundamentals over scheme (not to the exclusion of scheme, but fundamentals come first, and they keep their scheme simple).
I don't see this as an example of Coach Ward outsmarting himself, if that's where you're going with this. I see this as an example of us trying to scheme according to the strengths of our personnel. Right now, we don't have four "kill the quarterback" defensive line rushers like we've had the last couple of years. So we probably need to do some things differently if we want to get pressure on the passing game. If we merely subbed in a pass rush specialist on one end, how long do you think it will take SEC offensive coordinators to double team that player? I'm betting one series. As such, we're going to have to show movement and different alignments to free up our pass rushers this year. Which, I think, is exactly what Coach Ward is trying to do here.

Further to the point, if you go and look at what Oklahoma's doing, they aren't just subbing in a pass rushing specialist at the DE spot and playing a base 4-3 or nickle defense. They're running 3-4 alignments. But that big outside hybrid backer they've got sometimes walks up to the line (and then it sometimes looks more like our base 4-2-5, but that's just in appearance only). In other words, they're using the movement versatility of the 3-4 to give multiple looks and confuse the opposing QB. Why? Because that's what fits their personnel. Also, it produced winning results. It sounds to me like Coach Ward wants to do something similar with our defense in specific, pass rushing situations. I would expect that we'll show various 3-4, 3-3-5, and even 4-2-5 "looks" out of our pass rush package next year, and I would expect the players to be able to move in and out of those looks depending on how the offense lines up, audibles, etc. And I would expect us to blitz a lot from this package -- from lots of different positions. Movement and alignment advantages will be key to getting free pass rushers, etc.

I just don't think we have the personnel this year to keep our scheme as base "simple" as we have done the last couple of years. So, part of the "fundamentals" of which you speak will be that this year our defensive players will have to learn to execute different looks, packages, assignments than we've operated the last couple of years. And that's because of the realistic probability that sticking to our base 4-2-5 package will get us burned if it's not as effective as it has been at getting to the opposing QB (which by all indications...).

Now what, you say, of the fact that college players aren't traditionally very good at mastering complexity, or at thinking on their feet? Well, that's obviously a concern here. We'll probably get burned by confusion some. But is there ANYTHING worse than watching a defense refuse to adapt and get picked apart by a good QB? Seriously, there is nothing I hate more than that in football. I would much rather a team get burned by trying to get to the QB than to just sit back and let him shred their defense into pieces. It's demoralizing. It's NOT big boy football. Either win fighting or go down fighting, but don't get pushed around by the other team and refuse to do anything in reply but play sound fundamentals from your base defense.
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And if that means that we need to blitz like lunatics next year, showing a ton of motion and confusion from these new formations? THEN SO BE IT. If we get burned by confusion, we get burned. And if we lose because of getting burned? Crap happens. But let no one be able to say that we didn't make the other team fight like hell for the win.
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Old 05-05-2014, 03:31 AM   #90
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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There is mostly a different personnel group for each defense. The 3-4 allows Skai and Walton on the field at the same time. Also, the additional LB fits BAW perfectly. This gives us at least 2 speed rushers off the edge that we don't have in the 4-2. This will be run mostly in passing situations. There are also many more variables with the 3-4.
Why not keep the defense in a 4-2-5, take out the lesser pass rusher of the two DEs, and sub either Walton or BAW into their spot? (i.e. line them up as a DE in the 4-2-5) If having Skai and Walton (or BAW) on the field at the same is going to be used primarily as a passing situational adjustment, then there is less need to be concerned with them getting "outmuscled" by the offensive linemen, because they are going to be pass rushing, not taking on run blocks.

You can still rush the passer effectively from the 4-2-5. There are all kinds of man and zone blitzes you can dial up to create confusion for the offense. You don't need to put in whole new defensive fronts (3-4, 3-3-5, etc) in order to create confusion.

Any time you install new defensive fronts that are drastically different from your base fronts, you have to change stuff in your defense, which means less teaching time is available to focus on teaching your base stuff, and less reps per concept.

You can cause plenty of problems for the offense out of the 4-2-5. You don't need to install new defensive fronts.
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Old 05-05-2014, 04:12 AM   #91
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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I don't see this as an example of Coach Ward outsmarting himself, if that's where you're going with this. I see this as an example of us trying to scheme according to the strengths of our personnel.
First of all, let me say that I greatly appreciate your willingness to engage in intelligent and detailed football discussion. That is something that is not often seen on this site.

Thank you for taking the time to write your posts.

Quote:
Right now, we don't have four "kill the quarterback" defensive line rushers like we've had the last couple of years. So we probably need to do some things differently if we want to get pressure on the passing game. If we merely subbed in a pass rush specialist on one end, how long do you think it will take SEC offensive coordinators to double team that player? I'm betting one series. As such, we're going to have to show movement and different alignments to free up our pass rushers this year. Which, I think, is exactly what Coach Ward is trying to do here.
If they double team the pass rushing specialist, that leaves you with a numbers advantage in a 5+ man pressure.

If you brings 5, and they double team the specialist, that leaves them with 3 guys to block 4 rushers.

What if they involve a back in the protection?

You bring 6, and they double team the specialist, that leaves them with 4 guys to block 5 rushers.

What if they involve a back and a tight end, two backs, or two tight ends in the protection?

At that point, you have a numbers advantage in coverage, as they have only 3 players running routes, and you have 5 defenders to play pass coverage.

Quote:
Further to the point, if you go and look at what Oklahoma's doing, they aren't just subbing in a pass rushing specialist at the DE spot and playing a base 4-3 or nickle defense. They're running 3-4 alignments. But that big outside hybrid backer they've got sometimes walks up to the line (and then it sometimes looks more like our base 4-2-5, but that's just in appearance only). In other words, they're using the movement versatility of the 3-4 to give multiple looks and confuse the opposing QB. Why? Because that's what fits their personnel. Also, it produced winning results. It sounds to me like Coach Ward wants to do something similar with our defense in specific, pass rushing situations. I would expect that we'll show various 3-4, 3-3-5, and even 4-2-5 "looks" out of our pass rush package next year, and I would expect the players to be able to move in and out of those looks depending on how the offense lines up, audibles, etc. And I would expect us to blitz a lot from this package -- from lots of different positions. Movement and alignment advantages will be key to getting free pass rushers, etc.
Well, if we do a 3-3-5 as a passing situation adjustment, and keep our two interior linemen and our best pass rushing defensive end on the field, and sub out the defensive end that is the lesser pass rusher of the two DEs, and put the specialist in as a 3rd linebacker, I could see that being a good move.

The issue that I have with moving to a 3 man line, even if it's not a traditional 3-4, or 3-3-5, is that the two interior linemen and the DE would have to learn new spots to line up. Consequently, they will have less practice time with their traditional spots in the 4-2-5, and they will probably be less comfortable with their traditional spots in the 4-2-5 (where they spend most of their snaps), both of which will probably lead to decreased competency in executing their assignments in the 4-2-5.

Quote:
I just don't think we have the personnel this year to keep our scheme as base "simple" as we have done the last couple of years.
You can stay in the base 4-2-5 and mix in all kinds of adjustments, man blitzes, and zone blitzes. You don't really need to add in a whole new defensive front.

Quote:
So, part of the "fundamentals" of which you speak will be that this year our defensive players will have to learn to execute different looks, packages, assignments than we've operated the last couple of years.
Fundamentals are tackling, pursuit angles, block shedding, pass rushing moves, etc. What you suggested in the quote above is going to take away from getting good at fundamentals.

Quote:
And that's because of the realistic probability that sticking to our base 4-2-5 package will get us burned if it's not as effective as it has been at getting to the opposing QB (which by all indications...).
Refer to what I said above about staying in the base 4-2-5. Trying to be a jack of all trades is what will get us burned. You can adjust to what the offense is doing without installing whole new defensive fronts.

Quote:
Now what, you say, of the fact that college players aren't traditionally very good at mastering complexity, or at thinking on their feet? Well, that's obviously a concern here. We'll probably get burned by confusion some. But is there ANYTHING worse than watching a defense refuse to adapt and get picked apart by a good QB? Seriously, there is nothing I hate more than that in football. I would much rather a team get burned by trying to get to the QB than to just sit back and let him shred their defense into pieces. It's demoralizing. It's NOT big boy football. Either win fighting or go down fighting, but don't get pushed around by the other team and refuse to do anything in reply but play sound fundamentals from your base defense.
ATTACK FIRST!
ATTACK IN REPLY!
ATTACK WHEN BACKED UP!
And if that means that we need to blitz like lunatics next year, showing a ton of motion and confusion from these new formations? THEN SO BE IT. If we get burned by confusion, we get burned. And if we lose because of getting burned? Crap happens. But let no one be able to say that we didn't make the other team fight like hell for the win.
Yes, there is something worse, and that is seeing a confused defense get burned.

We had major problems with that in the secondary just a few seasons back. 2010 was the season, I think. UK ring a bell? UT?

SC has sat back before (can't remember if it was under EJ or Ward) and let UGA's QB shred us in the quick passing game. Our corners sat 8-10 yards off the ball the whole game it seemed like. Very, very frustrating to see the defense not adapt. But, that's not what I'm advocating here.

Here is a link to a coaching blog that specializes in blitzes.

http://blitzology.blogspot.com/searc...-2-5%20Defense

The link will take you directly to the blog's 4-2-5 archive.

You can create blitzes out of the 4-2-5. You don't need to install an entire new defensive front (3-4, 3-3-5, etc) to create confusion for the offense.

Last edited by USCNowAndForever; 05-06-2014 at 01:05 AM.
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Old 05-05-2014, 08:10 AM   #92
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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Originally Posted by USCNowAndForever View Post
You can generate all kinds of confusion out of the 4-2-5.
And you can generate all kinds of confusion out of a 3-4. The difference is what players do you have and what kinds of roles will they play?
If I'm loaded with LB talent but thin at DE, then utilizing my LBs in a scheme that takes advantage of their strengths is a smart plan. No need to wait until the season starts to find out our base defense is exploitable because we don't have the personnel to run it correctly.
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Old 05-06-2014, 12:40 AM   #93
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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And you can generate all kinds of confusion out of a 3-4. The difference is what players do you have and what kinds of roles will they play?
If I'm loaded with LB talent but thin at DE, then utilizing my LBs in a scheme that takes advantage of their strengths is a smart plan. No need to wait until the season starts to find out our base defense is exploitable because we don't have the personnel to run it correctly.
Except we aren't installing the 3-4 as a base defense, we are installing it as a situational adjustment for passing downs.

We are short on DE depth, and have plenty of defensive tackle depth, so what you could do, is use a 4-2-5/3-4 hybrid approach.

I outlined this earlier in the thread. In case you didn't see it, I will draw it up again.

--------------------F--------------------
-----------------------------------------
-C-----W-------M----S----------$-----C-
------------E------N---T---J-------------
-O----------O--O--O--O--O-----------O-
-------O------------------------O-------
-------------------O---------------------
-----------------------------------------
-------------------O---------------------

The Nose Tackle (N) plays a two gap technique, and is responsible for the A gaps (gaps to left and right of center). This player is the traditional nose tackle that plays in a 3-4. An NFL example would be Vince Wilfork. We should have enough depth to have this position locked down.

The right defensive end (E) plays a two gap technique, and is responsible for the B gap and C gap. This player is the traditional 3-4 defensive end. Richard Seymour is an NFL example of this player. We should have enough depth to have this position locked down.

The defensive tackle (T) plays a one gap technique, and is responsible for the B gap to their left. This player is the traditional 4-2-5 defensive tackle. We should have enough depth to have this position locked down.

The left defensive end (J) plays a one gap technique, and is responsible for the C gap to their left. This player is the traditional 4-2-5 defensive end. We don't have enough depth to have two of this type of player on the field at the same time, on a consistent basis, which is why we are only putting one of them on the field at a time. In passing situations, the pass rushing specialist would be subbed into this spot (or, if the starting E player is the lesser pass rusher of the two starting defensive ends, the pass rushing specialist would be subbed in at the E spot).

This allows you to play a combination of 4-2-5 and 3-4 because your traditional 3-4 players, the N and E, have two gaps locked down, which in combination with the J and D each having one gap locked down, ensures that all 6 running gaps are accounted for. This means that this hybrid defense is sound against the run, so in addition to passing downs, it can also be used on normal downs and running downs. Also, this makes the M's job and the S' job easier, because instead of having to be responsible for a gap and carry out their assignments, they are free to focus on their assignments. Consequently, the 4-2-5/3-4 hybrid is more versatile and thus yields a greater return on investment than a 3-4 and/or 3-3-5 that is installed *only* for passing downs.

The New England Patriots have used a 4-3/3-4 hybrid recently. If I understand correctly, they were faced with a personnel situation similar to our personnel situation this year.

Here is a link to a coaching blog that specializes in blitzes.

http://blitzology.blogspot.com/searc...-2-5%20Defense

The link will take you directly to the blog's 4-2-5 archive.

You can create blitzes out of the 4-2-5. You don't need to install an entire new defensive front (3-4, 3-3-5, etc) to create confusion for the offense.

KISS: Keep it simple, stupid

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Old 05-06-2014, 06:48 AM   #94
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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Except we aren't installing the 3-4 as a base defense, we are installing it as a situational adjustment for passing downs.
You don't know that. Lots of assumptions. May I suggest you keep it simple.
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Old 05-06-2014, 07:44 AM   #95
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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Why spend teaching time, player brain power, and practice reps on installing a 3-4 package when you could just sub the pass rushing specialist into one of the 4-2-5 DE spots in obvious passing situations? That way the 4-2-5 nose tackle, defensive tackle, and other defensive end don't have to learn and practice a whole new setup. Just run the 4-2-5 on passing downs with a pass rushing specialist subbed in for the end that is the lesser pass rusher of the two ends.

Sometimes college coaches outsmart themselves.

In the same way that some NFL coaches are learning from college coaches, college coaches could stand to learn from HS coaches. The best HS coaches are the ones who keep it simple and emphasize fundamentals over scheme (not to the exclusion of scheme, but fundamentals come first, and they keep their scheme simple).
I think our coaches have proven they can decide on good schemes. If Ward and company are trying to change things up it is for a good reason, what most consider a limitation of our DL personnel. When you ask questions like your first paragraph it makes it sound to me like our coaches really aren't that good at what they do. If you are right, they would have been better off coming to Cockytalk for advice instead of going to Oklahoma and Texas to work with Strong and Stoops. Just doesn't quite pass the laugh test.
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Old 05-06-2014, 11:41 AM   #96
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

If English, Dixon44, Cooper, Harris, Johnson, maybe Washington, and hopefully Thomas can make tackles, play upfield, get pressure and sacks, and seal the edge, they will play. We will likely be aligned in 4-2-5 most of the time. If our linebackers are as good as many believe (which I don't), they will provide good run support, make tackles at or behind the LOS, and cover the short pass with 2LB's and a spur. However, if Surratt, Dixon Jr, Dukes, Lamin, Griffin, or Green show themselves to be playmakers, and if even one becomes 2/3 as disruptive as Clowney, we may see more than 2 DT's on the field at once and a DE standing up and off the line. As pointed out earlier, the performance of the defenders will outweigh anything else (including scheme preferences of coaches) in determining what we see most on the field. We've got to replace a disruptive force at DE who changes teams' game plans and an excellent, versatile DT who could hold ground, tackle, and pressure QB's. Putting the personnel on the field who can let us dictate will likely trump the supposed benefits of any particular defensive alignment. While I don't think we have the linebackers (mostly size-wise) to run a typical 3-4, I fully expect the coaches to adjust and readjust as necessary. Sutton had the size, speed, opportunity, and experience to have a superb season. He didn't do it. I often felt relieved to see 44 in there in critical situations. I think we will see lots of things tried out this year on defense to see who we can depend on to make plays and dictate. The schemes will very likely adjust to the performance of personnel and the offense of the opponents.
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Old 05-06-2014, 11:57 AM   #97
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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If English, Dixon44, Cooper, Harris, Johnson, maybe Washington, and hopefully Thomas can make tackles, play upfield, get pressure and sacks, and seal the edge, they will play. We will likely be aligned in 4-2-5 most of the time. If our linebackers are as good as many believe (which I don't), they will provide good run support, make tackles at or behind the LOS, and cover the short pass with 2LB's and a spur. However, if Surratt, Dixon Jr, Dukes, Lamin, Griffin, or Green show themselves to be playmakers, and if even one becomes 2/3 as disruptive as Clowney, we may see more than 2 DT's on the field at once and a DE standing up and off the line. As pointed out earlier, the performance of the defenders will outweigh anything else (including scheme preferences of coaches) in determining what we see most on the field. We've got to replace a disruptive force at DE who changes teams' game plans and an excellent, versatile DT who could hold ground, tackle, and pressure QB's. Putting the personnel on the field who can let us dictate will likely trump the supposed benefits of any particular defensive alignment. While I don't think we have the linebackers (mostly size-wise) to run a typical 3-4, I fully expect the coaches to adjust and readjust as necessary. Sutton had the size, speed, opportunity, and experience to have a superb season. He didn't do it. I often felt relieved to see 44 in there in critical situations. I think we will see lots of things tried out this year on defense to see who we can depend on to make plays and dictate. The schemes will very likely adjust to the performance of personnel and the offense of the opponents.
Sutton was injured as well.
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Old 05-06-2014, 12:05 PM   #98
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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You don't know that. Lots of assumptions. May I suggest you keep it simple.
I think it's well known it's not going to be our base defense. Ward has been running the 4-2-5 forever, and even before that with Ellis. No reason to change up the base defense. We run alot of different things for different situations, like almost every other team now. We've never been vanilla in our approach to disguising defense. (well sometimes with ellis johnson)
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Old 05-06-2014, 12:48 PM   #99
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

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I think it's well known it's not going to be our base defense.
I think it could change....that's why they are making other plans, even if it's a contingency plan. And as posted above, we may in fact NOT have the LBs to run a decent 3-4.
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Old 05-06-2014, 01:07 PM   #100
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Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

One thing is fairly clear, at least to me, this 3-4 experiment is the result of a lack of confidence in creating a pass rush out of the 4-2-5. Dixon is a good player but he's not going to blow people away coming off the edge.

I give Ward a lot of credit for being proactive & trying to find a solution to a potential problem ahead of time. Every team has some deficiencies or lack of depth somewhere, the key is covering up those problems better than the next guy.
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