CockyTalk

Welcome to Cockytalk!

Thank you for visiting our forum. As a guest, you have limited access to view some discussion and articles. By joining our free community, you will be able to view all discussions and articles, post your own topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload photos, participate in Pick'Em contests and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today!!

If you have any problems registering or logging in, please contact our Admins. Thanks!

Go Back   CockyTalk > Gamecocks Sports > The Cock Pit

Today's Top 10
Posters (by posts)Threads (by views)Newest Posts Gamecock Headlines 
gamecockgal
NinjaSven
Rebel4ever
BlakelyH19
roosterdude21
Carolina-Beez
Cockyteg
kevhugh
eatlighting
Lankey62
Spurrier was Embaras (3004)
More David Williams (2087)
Is it possible for o (1971)
Spurrier not happy s (1854)
ECU is a good team (1805)
Lammons out (1145)
Alabama vs Florida. (1114)
ECU is a good team (974)
Curse of the Chicken (968)
Our wide receivers w (896)
D line pressure
Tonight's ugly win was in
Curse of the Chicken
Gameday in Columbia
More David Williams Pleas
My guess is
UK fans and local sports
Spurrier not happy so why
Spurrier was Embarassed
Week 4: What Happened To


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-06-2014, 08:48 PM   #101
Goofyboy
2nd Team All-SEC
 
Goofyboy's Avatar
 
Male

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sumter
Posts: 2,909
CockyCash: 500
Goofyboy is USC mascot materialGoofyboy is USC mascot materialGoofyboy is USC mascot materialGoofyboy is USC mascot materialGoofyboy is USC mascot materialGoofyboy is USC mascot materialGoofyboy is USC mascot materialGoofyboy is USC mascot materialGoofyboy is USC mascot materialGoofyboy is USC mascot materialGoofyboy is USC mascot material
Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trapper82 View Post
Sutton was injured as well.
I was (and am) pulling for him all year. I think he feels like he's at full strength now, and though his draft chances seem slim, he may get a chance and develop like we hoped he would.
Goofyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2014, 09:18 PM   #102
FearThethumbandDJ
Banned
 
FearThethumbandDJ's Avatar
 
Male

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,441
CockyCash: 1000
FearThethumbandDJ rules the CockPitFearThethumbandDJ rules the CockPitFearThethumbandDJ rules the CockPitFearThethumbandDJ rules the CockPitFearThethumbandDJ rules the CockPitFearThethumbandDJ rules the CockPitFearThethumbandDJ rules the CockPitFearThethumbandDJ rules the CockPitFearThethumbandDJ rules the CockPitFearThethumbandDJ rules the CockPitFearThethumbandDJ rules the CockPit
Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofyboy View Post
I was (and am) pulling for him all year. I think he feels like he's at full strength now, and though his draft chances seem slim, he may get a chance and develop like we hoped he would.
if nothing else hell be a camp body/practice squad guy who could eventually make a roster.
FearThethumbandDJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2014, 11:53 PM   #103
b381l
Heisman Winner
 
b381l's Avatar
 
Male

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 22,560
CockyCash: 52205
b381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot material
Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

Quote:
Originally Posted by USCNowAndForever View Post
Why not keep the defense in a 4-2-5, take out the lesser pass rusher of the two DEs, and sub either Walton or BAW into their spot? (i.e. line them up as a DE in the 4-2-5) If having Skai and Walton (or BAW) on the field at the same is going to be used primarily as a passing situational adjustment, then there is less need to be concerned with them getting "outmuscled" by the offensive linemen, because they are going to be pass rushing, not taking on run blocks.

You can still rush the passer effectively from the 4-2-5. There are all kinds of man and zone blitzes you can dial up to create confusion for the offense. You don't need to put in whole new defensive fronts (3-4, 3-3-5, etc) in order to create confusion.

Any time you install new defensive fronts that are drastically different from your base fronts, you have to change stuff in your defense, which means less teaching time is available to focus on teaching your base stuff, and less reps per concept.

You can cause plenty of problems for the offense out of the 4-2-5. You don't need to install new defensive fronts.
I think they pull the DE and the DT on one side and put in another DE or a DT. Our 3 DL will not line up over center. Then add 2 LB, probably Walton and BAW. Of course a lot of this depends on who qualifies and how summer practice goes.....so from everything I've read, nothing is set in stone at this point.
b381l is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2014, 11:54 PM   #104
b381l
Heisman Winner
 
b381l's Avatar
 
Male

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 22,560
CockyCash: 52205
b381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot material
Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flameout12 View Post
And you can generate all kinds of confusion out of a 3-4. The difference is what players do you have and what kinds of roles will they play?
If I'm loaded with LB talent but thin at DE, then utilizing my LBs in a scheme that takes advantage of their strengths is a smart plan. No need to wait until the season starts to find out our base defense is exploitable because we don't have the personnel to run it correctly.
this
b381l is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2014, 11:58 PM   #105
b381l
Heisman Winner
 
b381l's Avatar
 
Male

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 22,560
CockyCash: 52205
b381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot materialb381l is USC mascot material
Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

Quote:
Originally Posted by conwaycock2 View Post
One thing is fairly clear, at least to me, this 3-4 experiment is the result of a lack of confidence in creating a pass rush out of the 4-2-5. Dixon is a good player but he's not going to blow people away coming off the edge.

I give Ward a lot of credit for being proactive & trying to find a solution to a potential problem ahead of time. Every team has some deficiencies or lack of depth somewhere, the key is covering up those problems better than the next guy.
excellent post
b381l is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 12:35 AM   #106
snoopcockycock
AQUACOCK
 
snoopcockycock's Avatar
 
Male

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Qamea Island, Fiji
Posts: 2,651
CockyCash: 500
snoopcockycock is USC mascot materialsnoopcockycock is USC mascot materialsnoopcockycock is USC mascot materialsnoopcockycock is USC mascot materialsnoopcockycock is USC mascot materialsnoopcockycock is USC mascot materialsnoopcockycock is USC mascot materialsnoopcockycock is USC mascot materialsnoopcockycock is USC mascot materialsnoopcockycock is USC mascot materialsnoopcockycock is USC mascot material
Default Re: 3-4 looks in 2014?

Quote:
Originally Posted by USCNowAndForever View Post
If we are talking about a two-gap 3-4, keep in mind that we need to be at least two deep at every front seven spot in the 3-4 to consider installing it.

Both DE spots, both OLB spots, MLB, WLB, and NT.

If we aren't two deep at all those spots, as soon as someone gets injured, we can't run it anymore and it ends up being a waste of teaching time and practice reps.

Now, I don't know if Whammy and Co. are planning on using a one-gap or two-gap 3-4. Does anyone have any info on this?

From what I have gathered, the issue with our personnel this year seems to be that we have a shortage of 4-2-5 defensive ends, and an overabundance of 4-2-5 defensive tackles.

If that is the case, why not switch our base to a 4-2-5/3-4 hybrid?

It would look something like this:

--------------------F--------------------
-----------------------------------------
-C-----W-------M----S----------$-----C-
------------E------N---T---J-------------
-O----------O--O--O--O--O-----------O-
-------O------------------------O-------
-------------------O---------------------
-----------------------------------------
-------------------O---------------------

Before you and anyone else on here jumps down my throat with stuff like "let the coaches coach and the fans watch" or "stop arm-chair quarterbacking", this type of hybrid defense has already been used by the New England Patriots in the NFL.

http://grantland.com/features/bill-b...riots-defense/

What this allows us to do is have the best of both defenses, and tailor the defense to fit our current defensive personnel situation.

It also would not be a huge shift from our current base 4-2-5 defense. We would still have two corners, three safeties, two linebackers, and four defensive linemen. In the future, if our personnel situation shifted back to being suited to run a pure 4-2-5, it would not be a huge shift to go from the 4-2-5/3-4 hybrid back to a pure 4-2-5.

In the 4-2-5/3-4 hybrid, by having only one true 4-2-5 defensive end spot, we gain depth by having more of the few 4-2-5 defensive ends that we have, available for that one spot instead of stretching them out across two defensive end spots like we would in the pure 4-2-5. The 4-2-5 defensive end is the "J" in the diagram.

The other defensive end spot (E) is a 3-4 defensive end role. We have an abundance of players who should be able to play this spot.

The defensive tackle spot (T) is a traditional 4-2-5 defensive tackle role. Do to our overabundance of big players, we should have decent depth for this spot.

The nose tackle spot (N) should be able to be filled by several of our current players.

Depending on what the defensive coordinator wants to do, the E, T, and J can line up on either side of of the defensive front. The N will always line up over the center.

The J and T will use a one-gap technique, which means they will attack the gap they are responsible for.

The E and N will use a two-gap technique, which means they will attack the blocker that is in-between the two gaps they are responsible for. They go after the blocker, and wait to see which way the play develops. Once they have identified which way the play is going, they will have to shed the blocker and attack the gap to the side the play is developing.

Doing this allows us to ensure that all 6 offensive line gaps are accounted for, thus freeing up the linebackers (B and M) to carry out other responsibilities, thus making their jobs easier.

The downside to this system is that you have to teach the E, J, and T how to play their spot from the left and right side. This reduces teaching time available to the coaches. This also reduces the amount of practice reps players get playing a certain location on the field. Less reps leads to reduced competency in carrying out assignments.

Coaches aren't perfect, even college and NFL coaches. They are humans subject to the same flaws in thinking that the rest of us are. Many coaches only have expertise with one or two systems, and beyond that, they are just taking shots in the dark unless they learn the system from someone else.

Whammy was supposedly visiting Charlie Strong, so it appears that he was trying to learn, but perhaps in his trip out to Texas, he learned that the 3-4 wasn't really going to work for our current situation. That's of course assuming that he went out there to learn the 3-4 and not the 3-3-5. Everyone keeps talking about us installing the 3-4 this season, but from what I understand, Charlie Strong doesn't even run the 3-4, he runs the 3-3-5, which is basically the same alignment as our defense, but with a linebacker instead of a DT. It seems like the 3-3-5 would make more sense for us than a 3-4, at least as a situational package, because it is structurally similar to our current base defense.

Who knows though.
first of all, i think we do have that depth. second, whammy said that it would not be a traditional 3-4, but didn't elaborate beyond that. lastly, i think in all of that, you are missing one key point about why we are using the 3-4 at all. while it is partly because we might have a lack of true 4-2-5 de's to fill the usual role, i think a bigger and more significant part of it is the depth, speed, strength and talent of our lb's. why not get more of them on the field, to do more damage. especially, when we can bring it at any time, and without warning. i love sticking to the base 4-2-5, and using the 3-4 situationally. i think it gives us a distinct advantage, and makes them prepare for that much more.
__________________
snoopcockycock is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Provided by SLB Development