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Old 05-11-2014, 02:35 PM   #81
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Default Re: QUARLES AND HAMPTON SHOULD HAVE STAYED

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I wonder how they feel about the splash page on USC's site right now? "Here Dreams Become Reality".
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It actually looked good with just JD, now it looks corny.
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Old 05-11-2014, 02:38 PM   #82
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Default Re: QUARLES AND HAMPTON SHOULD HAVE STAYED

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Originally Posted by Wkrice91 View Post
I agree. If the player is not drafted, or does not sign a contract, I say give them a mulligan to be used once during their college career. Now Hampton may not be signed, and he doesn't have a college degree. Seems that the NCAA should be merciful on Student Athletes.
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Should USC have to pull a scholarship for a signed freshman because a guy leaving decides to come back?
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Exactly. Problem is they can't pull that scholarship. They are contractually committed to that player for 1 yr. They'd have to look elsewhere.

I guess this is just an insurmountable problem and will prevent the issue from ever being considered. Surely there is some way to make it work. And it may cost some kids scholarships or it may take a change that says that the numbers can count to a future or previous class. I am positive that if the NCAA wanted to do something about it, they could.
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Old 05-11-2014, 03:01 PM   #83
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Default Re: QUARLES AND HAMPTON SHOULD HAVE STAYED

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I guess this is just an insurmountable problem and will prevent the issue from ever being considered. Surely there is some way to make it work. And it may cost some kids scholarships or it may take a change that says that the numbers can count to a future or previous class. I am positive that if the NCAA wanted to do something about it, they could.
And therein, good doctor, lies the problem. The NCAA flat doesn't care.
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Old 05-11-2014, 03:10 PM   #84
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Default Re: QUARLES AND HAMPTON SHOULD HAVE STAYED

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I guess this is just an insurmountable problem and will prevent the issue from ever being considered. Surely there is some way to make it work. And it may cost some kids scholarships or it may take a change that says that the numbers can count to a future or previous class. I am positive that if the NCAA wanted to do something about it, they could.
Well you have two parties to deal with. Sure the NCAA could say yeah, go ahead & declare for the draft, if you don't like where you're gonna be picked, come on back, no problem.

The NFL could also turn right back around & say to the NCAA, go ahead & waste our time evaluating players who have no intention or the the ability to come to the NFL. We'll cut through all that & start drafting anybody we want, 3 yrs removed from high school or not. Then we go to a NCAA basketball model that is almost universally despised, at least by college basketball fans & most coaches.

Point is the NCAA & NFL have a loose partnership. If one side makes a change, the others side will probably do likewise. Neither side is operating in a vacuum.

The system in place now is not bad, what it doesn't do is prevent players from making bad decisions. Nothing is ever gonna completely solve that issue.

Last edited by conwaycock2; 05-11-2014 at 09:21 PM.
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Old 05-11-2014, 03:16 PM   #85
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Default Re: QUARLES AND HAMPTON SHOULD HAVE STAYED

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It wasn't the NY thing that hurt Quarles. Quarles had a huge productive year but was aided by all the attention Clowney got from the OL. He was 1st team all SEC. If he had come back, the OL would focus on him like they did CLowney. I doubt he would have been as productive. Like I said, I think what hurt him is that he has a medical condition that spooked some teams. I was told this by a friend who works for the Falcons. Quarles did get a 3-4th round projection. Given the factors above, I believe his decision to come out is understandable. Vic on the other hand needs another yea but was too boneheaded to realize that. Vic just isn't that good.
Several of his sacks came when Clowney wasn't in the game. Did he benefit somewhat when Clowney was in the game? Sure, the whole defense did. But he also produced with Clowney out of the game.
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Old 05-11-2014, 03:29 PM   #86
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Default Re: QUARLES AND HAMPTON SHOULD HAVE STAYED

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Several of his sacks came when Clowney wasn't in the game. Did he benefit somewhat when Clowney was in the game? Sure, the whole defense did. But he also produced with Clowney out of the game.
3 out of 11.5?
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Old 05-11-2014, 03:50 PM   #87
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Default Re: QUARLES AND HAMPTON SHOULD HAVE STAYED

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And therein, good doctor, lies the problem. The NCAA flat doesn't care.
The NCAA offers a solution. It's called staying in school and not listening to someone who's blowing smoke up your rear.
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Old 05-11-2014, 03:59 PM   #88
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Default Re: QUARLES AND HAMPTON SHOULD HAVE STAYED

It wouldn't have mattered for either guy, in terms of their NFL future, had they come back. Though great college football players, neither one has the physical tools to play their position in the league. Thats just my opinion so don't kill me for saying it. It would only matter for us fans and the program to have them back. Who knows though, one big game and scouts will roll the dice on a long shot.
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Old 05-11-2014, 04:44 PM   #89
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Default Re: QUARLES AND HAMPTON SHOULD HAVE STAYED

They lured them away so we would have a lesser chance at winning the SEC. Draft analysts hate us.....right?
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Old 05-11-2014, 04:47 PM   #90
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Default Re: QUARLES AND HAMPTON SHOULD HAVE STAYED

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It wouldn't have mattered for either guy, in terms of their NFL future, had they come back. Though great college football players, neither one has the physical tools to play their position in the league. Thats just my opinion so don't kill me for saying it. It would only matter for us fans and the program to have them back. Who knows though, one big game and scouts will roll the dice on a long shot.
There is absolutely no way for you to make this type of declaration. Quarles was an All-American and has all of the physical tools to be a really good (potentially great) DT in the NFL. If he had come back he could've gotten injured, he could've had a big year, or he could've maintained or dropped off. Vic and Quarles' stock both took a MASSIVE hit w/ the TMZ story. The impact of that story cannot be underestimated.

But your assessment is way too hyperbolic. Both were projected and on several Draft Experts "Best Available Boards" at various positions. Both were starters/All-Conference/All-American on an 11-2 team in the SEC. So to act as if everyone on here is out of their minds for expecting them to get drafted is ridiculous.
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Old 05-11-2014, 05:02 PM   #91
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Default Re: QUARLES AND HAMPTON SHOULD HAVE STAYED

While I completely agree that Quarles and Hampton in particular should have stayed another year, IMHO once our players have made the decision to leave we should be supportive of them. A lot of them dream of playing in the NFL, and the agents whisper to them whatever they want to hear. I don't think it is just the dollars either. I know when I was back in college, if someone had promised me that I could make a good living and I would never have to do any more schoolwork I might have jumped at the chance (and I come from a reasonably affluent family). A lot of us seem to forget how impressionable and wrongheaded we could be at that age. That said, I do believe that once a player makes the decision to enter the draft, his amateur eligibility should expire--the decision to leave college and enter the draft *should* remain a weighty decision.
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Old 05-11-2014, 05:07 PM   #92
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Default Re: QUARLES AND HAMPTON SHOULD HAVE STAYED

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The impact of that story cannot be underestimated.
I am sure you are right. I just wish someone, the agents, our school advisers, would tell these guys that they should just try and lay low between the combine and the end of training camp. The chances of someone like Marcus getting involved, or even being suspected of being involved, in this type of altercation is next to zero. Likely the same probability for someone like Bruce. Maybe youth is just wasted on the young...
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Old 05-11-2014, 05:16 PM   #93
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Default Re: QUARLES AND HAMPTON SHOULD HAVE STAYED

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Both were projected and on several Draft Experts "Best Available Boards" at various positions.
But honestly, by now we all should realize those projections suck with a few exceptions. They miss so much and are proving to be highly inaccurate beyond a handful of elite picks.

The one thing that stands out, and we all need to not forget:
- the NFL is looking for elite athletes and talent and will look hard and wide to find it. A lot of the talent they find is in places most don't expect.

If we look objectively....it should be kinda obvious why Jadeveon, Bruce, Ace, MI6, Alshon, Stephon, etc...went high. Those guys were all elite athletes, elite talent, or both.

Damiere Byrd fits that profile...not sure if we have anyone else on our current team that does.....maybe Skai Moore or Pharoh Cooper.
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Old 05-11-2014, 05:39 PM   #94
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Default Re: QUARLES AND HAMPTON SHOULD HAVE STAYED

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And therein, good doctor, lies the problem. The NCAA flat doesn't care.
I like it the way it is. What is wrong with it? These athletes made the decision to leave. Everybody on the NCAA side of it wanted them to stay. If you have to have someone evil to blame shouldn't you point your finger at the NFL and unscrupulous sports agents?
Frankly both Kelcy and Victor were aware they were 50/50 when the draft came around. They both got in an issue with police in NYC. Victor came back to SC and again got in trouble. Why is it up to the NCAA now to save them? I can't understand why these two athletes were even drinking alcohol at all this spring. Alcohol is not condusive to a good combine showing. They both were aware they were living under a microscope.

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Old 05-11-2014, 05:46 PM   #95
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Default Re: QUARLES AND HAMPTON SHOULD HAVE STAYED

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The NCAA offers a solution. It's called staying in school and not listening to someone who's blowing smoke up your rear.
Oh yeah? Is that the solution? Wow. I wish everyone in the world was able to see the future like you. The paperwork said they would be 3-4th round picks. The people who stand to make money off of them thought they could go high enough to leave. If the "experts" are telling you to go to the draft, why would they not listen? You're talking about the opportunity to go from poor to wealthy in the matter of a pen stroke. It would be hard not to leave with all of that "expert advice" and the opportunity to move into a nice income bracket. You seem awfully butthurt that they left your beloved university. Almost to the point that you're being downright hateful with an attitude of "it serves them right." Hell, as an adult I've left a job thinking I had a better offer only to find out that I should've stayed. Funny thing about hindsight is that people like you become overbearing assholes who scream "I told you so" at kids taking the advice they were given by professionals and made a decision trying to better themselves. I hope you feel good about yourself. Because no amount of sensible thinking or rational thought will ever convince people like you that these players deserve nothing but a scholarship and it's a privilege to be at the university.
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Old 05-11-2014, 05:47 PM   #96
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Default Re: QUARLES AND HAMPTON SHOULD HAVE STAYED

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I like it the way it is. What is wrong with it? These athletes made the decision to leave. Everybody on the NCAA side of it wanted them to stay. If you have to have someone evil to blame shouldn't you point your finger at the NFL and unscrupulous sports agents?
Frankly both Kelcy and Victor were aware they were 50/50 when the draft came around. They both got in an issue with police in NYC. Victor came back to SC and again got in trouble. Why is it up to the NCAA now to save them? I can't understand why these two athletes were even drinking alcohol at all this spring. Alcohol is not conducive to a good combine showing. They both were aware they were living under a microscope.
The NCAA wanted athletes who don't get paid and generate tons of money to fatten their pockets to stay and play for a scholarship which they can't use to pay their bills and live? Ya don't say?
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Old 05-11-2014, 05:54 PM   #97
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Default Re: QUARLES AND HAMPTON SHOULD HAVE STAYED

it works for baseball. it's a rare thing for me to use bball as an example, but baseball players can get drafted, and still decide to stay in school. i like that idea better than what is in place. and sos said it best a year or so ago, when he said if a player is a first rounder, they should go, otherwise they should stay in school. people come with all these hardship stories, but the nfl will still be there the next year, and there is always the insurance policy.
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Old 05-11-2014, 06:19 PM   #98
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Default Re: QUARLES AND HAMPTON SHOULD HAVE STAYED

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There is absolutely no way for you to make this type of declaration. Quarles was an All-American and has all of the physical tools to be a really good (potentially great) DT in the NFL. If he had come back he could've gotten injured, he could've had a big year, or he could've maintained or dropped off. Vic and Quarles' stock both took a MASSIVE hit w/ the TMZ story. The impact of that story cannot be underestimated.

But your assessment is way too hyperbolic. Both were projected and on several Draft Experts "Best Available Boards" at various positions. Both were starters/All-Conference/All-American on an 11-2 team in the SEC. So to act as if everyone on here is out of their minds for expecting them to get drafted is ridiculous.
You seem to be putting words into my post. Please re-read and try not to assume anything. Quarles is a beast... for college. He is slower and less strong and certainly less fit than most of the DTs that actually play in games at the next level. It doesn't appear that he feels he was gonna get any better in another year with the Cocks.
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Old 05-11-2014, 06:44 PM   #99
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Default Re: QUARLES AND HAMPTON SHOULD HAVE STAYED

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The NCAA offers a solution. It's called staying in school and not listening to someone who's blowing smoke up your rear.
All of these athlete's at this level are brimming with confidence. They are good enough to play significant minutes for their college team and have been the focus of much attention.

They have faced their peers on the college gridirion and have been successful.

The critics are haters. Everyone has one or two flaws in their game - no one is perfect, right?

Why not listen to those who tell you what you already "know?"

Add to this the FACT that these athletes are being told they will go 4th round or higher. When you have that projection, you think that at worst you end up a round or two lower than your worst projection.

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Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is the tendency of people to favor information that confirms their beliefs or hypotheses.[Note 1][1] People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs. People also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. Biased search, interpretation and memory have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a greater reliance on information encountered early in a series) and illusory correlation (when people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).

A series of experiments in the 1960s suggested that people are biased toward confirming their existing beliefs. Later work re-interpreted these results as a tendency to test ideas in a one-sided way, focusing on one possibility and ignoring alternatives. In certain situations, this tendency can bias people's conclusions. Explanations for the observed biases include wishful thinking and the limited human capacity to process information. Another explanation is that people show confirmation bias because they are weighing up the costs of being wrong, rather than investigating in a neutral, scientific way.
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Old 05-11-2014, 06:48 PM   #100
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Default Re: QUARLES AND HAMPTON SHOULD HAVE STAYED

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Originally Posted by ReCOCKulous View Post
Oh yeah? Is that the solution? Wow. I wish everyone in the world was able to see the future like you. The paperwork said they would be 3-4th round picks. The people who stand to make money off of them thought they could go high enough to leave. If the "experts" are telling you to go to the draft, why would they not listen? You're talking about the opportunity to go from poor to wealthy in the matter of a pen stroke. It would be hard not to leave with all of that "expert advice" and the opportunity to move into a nice income bracket. You seem awfully butthurt that they left your beloved university. Almost to the point that you're being downright hateful with an attitude of "it serves them right." Hell, as an adult I've left a job thinking I had a better offer only to find out that I should've stayed. Funny thing about hindsight is that people like you become overbearing assholes who scream "I told you so" at kids taking the advice they were given by professionals and made a decision trying to better themselves. I hope you feel good about yourself. Because no amount of sensible thinking or rational thought will ever convince people like you that these players deserve nothing but a scholarship and it's a privilege to be at the university.
I don't care that they left but it's not the NCAAs responsibility to cover for what turned out to be a bad decision. In your own example do you think the company you left should have let you walk back in like nothing happened? People make bad decisions every day and you simply can't regulate or protect people from all of them. While it sucks for them there is plenty of evidence that the grades are a crap shoot and what you do in workouts and the combine is far more critical. Maybe they thought they'd be workout wonders but there is plenty of history to show how many early departures don't even end up on a practice squad. They knew the risk reward options and made their choice and what's done is done.

I'm not really sure how your last part fits into the question about allowing them to come back to school if the draft thing doesn't work out but paying them to play college football isn't going to stop people from trying to go pro.
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