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Old 05-13-2014, 10:13 PM   #61
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Default Re: CAROLINA vs CLEMSON (Five Years Later)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurticus View Post
I think everyone so far is touching on all the little things that eventually
came together and played a part in the "change", but what Yearof just
said here I THINK is also a big factor.

Before 2009 (and it was addressed by Holtz a few times in the media),
is that our younger players (freshmen / Sophs) were actually more talented
and athletic than the Juniors / seniors on some of his teams.... THAT
made for an atmosphere of content as the older guys didn't like "taking
advice or commands" from the more talented younger players. It bred
a locker room full of split feelings. I remember Ryan Brewer talking about
it on one of the talk shows a few years ago too. It was a by product of
Holtz getting some of the better players in the state, and some other
states, that weren't blending well with the experienced "average" players
we had on the team.

That class of 2009 I think changed all of that, and gave us some young
players that demanded the role of leaders by default. Stephon Gilmore,
DeVonte Holloman, DJ Swearinger etc... They grew as leaders early,
set up a program of leaders and left the program in better shape when
they were gone.... when you think of the leaders of our teams since
2009, you understand why that class was HUGE in getting the ball rolling.
Not only for the rivalry, but in the rest of our schedule as well. After 2009
you had LEADERS like Lattimore, Cunningham, Ingram, Swearinger, Shaw,
Thompson, Ellington etc
.... It was the beginning of our success and the
start of a new Carolina
I like that you put Thompson in that category. I really think his leadership off the field is underrated by most.

As for the page turner, I think it started with Gilmore.
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Old 05-13-2014, 10:24 PM   #62
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Default Re: CAROLINA vs CLEMSON (Five Years Later)

It was and is defense. We got and have one amd they don't. Back in the 80's they had a much better defense.
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Old 05-13-2014, 10:26 PM   #63
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Default Re: CAROLINA vs CLEMSON (Five Years Later)

I think it all just started compounding. Its the same mentality that makes players and fans think "we shouldn't lose to Furman, we're superior. We have more talent, and other stuff (dont feel like going that deep into it)". Thats the way it is with Clemson now, is it true? Who knows, the teams are pretty damn even as far as talent goes, South Carolina def. has the edge on coaching. But right now, as it stands, South Carolina KNOWS it is better than clemson. Clemson fans are now where USC fans were several years ago: "Man it sucks we lost, but I kind of expected it".

South Carolina is even in the head of the coaching staff now, as proven by the clocks. And I dont wanna play this "i know people card" because it sounds douche-like, and very uninformed, but the fact is I know people, and South Carolina right now, as it stands, owns the brains that wear orange and purple. Just take it from me, that coaching staff has one goal next season. Georgia and FSU might as well not even be on the calendar.
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Old 05-13-2014, 10:38 PM   #64
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Default Re: CAROLINA vs CLEMSON (Five Years Later)

Quote:
Originally Posted by robgusc76 View Post
I think it all just started compounding. Its the same mentality that makes players and fans think "we shouldn't lose to Furman, we're superior. We have more talent, and other stuff (dont feel like going that deep into it)". Thats the way it is with Clemson now, is it true? Who knows, the teams are pretty damn even as far as talent goes, South Carolina def. has the edge on coaching. But right now, as it stands, South Carolina KNOWS it is better than clemson. Clemson fans are now where USC fans were several years ago: "Man it sucks we lost, but I kind of expected it".

South Carolina is even in the head of the coaching staff now, as proven by the clocks. And I dont wanna play this "i know people card" because it sounds douche-like, and very uninformed, but the fact is I know people, and jSouth Carolina right now, as it stands, owns the brains that wear orange and purple. Just take it from me, that coaching staff has one goal next season. Georgia and FSU might as well not even be on the calendar.


I hope they continue to focus like that. They will be so tight when they play us, they will snap like a rubber band.
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Old 05-13-2014, 10:58 PM   #65
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Default Re: CAROLINA vs CLEMSON (Five Years Later)

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Originally Posted by henmania View Post
I hope they continue to focus like that. They will be so tight when they play us, they will snap like a rubber band.
Those players wount be able to crap a BB come the Saturday after Thanksgiving.
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Old 05-13-2014, 11:14 PM   #66
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Default Re: CAROLINA vs CLEMSON (Five Years Later)

I knew it was bad when I heard about the clock... Can't you just imagine Dabo laying in bed with his mom staring at that clock at like 3 or 4 a.m.

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Old 05-13-2014, 11:30 PM   #67
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Default Re: CAROLINA vs CLEMSON (Five Years Later)

Without reading the entire thread, I think if Clemson had allowed Tommy Bowden to finish that season and they had been able to keep their class intact we would not be where we are now. Them losing some of the talent from that class and us benefiting from gaining it was crucial. I guess you could argue that we may have still gotten some of those players or they may still have converted if Tommy hadn't left at all, but that's a lot of speculation. It's been written that by playing one of the worst games of his career Chris Smelley sealed Dabo into a head coaching spot and sealed the current state of the rivalry. I think that also has some merit, because I don't know if Dabo would have gotten the job so easily without the win over us.
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Old 05-14-2014, 12:06 AM   #68
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Default Re: CAROLINA vs CLEMSON (Five Years Later)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandstorm2001 View Post
Without reading the entire thread, I think if Clemson had allowed Tommy Bowden to finish that season and they had been able to keep their class intact we would not be where we are now. Them losing some of the talent from that class and us benefiting from gaining it was crucial. I guess you could argue that we may have still gotten some of those players or they may still have converted if Tommy hadn't left at all, but that's a lot of speculation. It's been written that by playing one of the worst games of his career Chris Smelley sealed Dabo into a head coaching spot and sealed the current state of the rivalry. I think that also has some merit, because I don't know if Dabo would have gotten the job so easily without the win over us.
There is some merit to this. I do think SC was the better team in 2008, but stunk up the field. I do find it interesting if that game helped Dabo get the job, that losing 5 straight had no negative impact on him getting a renewal.
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:47 AM   #69
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Default Re: CAROLINA vs CLEMSON (Five Years Later)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yearofthegamecock View Post
I knew it was bad when I heard about the clock... Can't you just imagine Dabo laying in bed with his mom staring at that clock at like 3 or 4 a.m.

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You know his mom would be nagging him to turn it off too

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Old 05-14-2014, 12:20 PM   #70
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Default Re: CAROLINA vs CLEMSON (Five Years Later)

Quote:
Originally Posted by brat View Post
We stopped making excuses for losing. "Win Anyway!!!"

Most of the kids we recruit come from winning programs and are aware of what it takes to do so.
Indirectly, I think that the baseball team winning the national championship in 2010 was huge for Carolina athletics because they proved it CAN be done. Then in 2011 they proved it wasn't a one-off fluke. The Win Anyway mentality has absolutely permeated our entire program since then.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurticus View Post
This was one of the big factors our fans used a few years ago when we
were tying to figure out why we couldn't win or put two games back to
back against Clemson. A large group of people during the discussion said
that it was BECAUSE we were in the SEC that we entered the Clemson
game "beat up" and we couldn't match them in endurance.

I posted some stats on the board that I even found very interesting in
2010 (when we were trying to win our second game with them)...we
had been in the SEC for 19 years at that time. I took the record vs
Clemson since we joined the SEC then went back to the 19 years prior
to joining the SEC and it was amazing... the results were almost Identical.
In fact, with the tie in 1988 (our last tie with them), we were actually
1/2 game better vs Clemson since we joined the SEC. Both records though
were very similar and very much in Clemson's favor.

IMO, if it was just us being in the SEC, it would have paid off a few years
back, definitely under Holtz's teams when we were getting better talent
and winning more games in the SEC than we had any year prior. I think
it has more to do than just being in the SEC and playing an SEC Schedule.
Thanks for this statement!

It's frustrating to hear our fans use the SEC as an explanation for both winning and losing. We can't loose to Clemson because the SEC beats us up and then win the next year because the SEC has tougher competition. The SEC plays its part in recruiting to be sure, but simply being in the SEC has never been the determining factor. Clemson has an SEC-like atmosphere even if their competition in the ACC isn't as good as ours, so it isn't just atmosphere and fans.

The difference is success- winning in the SEC has a direct correlation with winning the State Championship. Of our 21 seasons in the SEC when we have a winning conference record we tend to win against Clemson. On the other end of the spectrum, when we have a losing record in the SEC, we tend to loose to Clemson.

Since 1992:
Carolina defeated Clemson in 5 of 7 seasons with a losing conference record.
Carolina lost to Clemson in 10 of 12 seasons with a losing conference record.

Aside from statistics, I think THE reason goes back to 2010: Recruiting Marcus Lattimore. That was the biggest achievement for Carolina since joining the SEC. He was by far the biggest recruit we had ever had up to that point - surpassed only by Clowney. His talent was huge, but his leadership was even more impressive. I think that his leadership and talent helped secure a lot of wins, and helped to redefine Carolina football to its core.
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Old 05-14-2014, 01:04 PM   #71
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Default Re: CAROLINA vs CLEMSON (Five Years Later)

I think this can be summed up with two statements:

They recruit talent
We develop talent
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Old 05-14-2014, 07:56 PM   #72
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Default Re: CAROLINA vs CLEMSON (Five Years Later)

It's amazing how much detail gets clouded when you try to recall something
that happened as little as 4-5 years back. I was thinking about this
thread today and wanted to do some personal research. I decided to
go back and watch the 2009 Carolina/Clemson game again, so when I
got home, I pulled it up on Youtube and just finished watching it again.

WOW

I remember the game, and the scoring plays, and I remembered the opening
series of plays that gave Clemson the 7-0 lead in less than a minute. I
also recall the turnovers on both side. .... However, for some reason, I
had it in my mind that, that was a closely played game and we were
able to finally put the ball in the end zone "here and there" and build
a lead late in the game. ...... That's not the case at all.
I also have heard Clemson fans even to this day, saying that we got
a few lucky breaks and won the game, and that they were actually the
better team in that game and season ...... WE TOTALLY DOMINATED
Clemson after that opening score by Spiller on the Kickoff. We took
control of that game in all three facets of the game and beat them down
pretty damn well. Even on the drives were we didn't score, we were
eating up Major chucks of time on the clock and Clemson couldn't
get us off the field. When we did end up punting or turning it over,
we got the ball back a few seconds later by turnovers or three and
outs. I knew Stephon played a good game as a freshman starter at
CB, but he and Darian Stewart had the Clemson ground game in their
back pockets pretty much the entire game. That was with CJ Spiller,
Jamie Harper and Andre Ellington carrying the football, and Jacoby Ford
at one of the Wide Outs. 24-7 about midway through the fourth Quarter
before Clemson's offense put the ball in the endzone against us that
game.

It was the beginning of a half decade of Taking Back the State, and
that game, and that team totally set the machine in motion !!!
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Old 05-14-2014, 09:07 PM   #73
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Default Re: CAROLINA vs CLEMSON (Five Years Later)

I think prior to 2009 we had more players on our team from Georgia than we did good players from SC. When we got the class of guys that included Swearinger, Gilmore, Alshon, and Holloman, that changed. The rivalry until then didn't mean as much to players on our team as it did to the taters. Thats why I think we always played uga so close even when they obviously had more talent than us. And many of the years we lost to tater teams that I really felt we were better than, including the 63-17 game. We have guys from SC on the team now that have no memory of losing to the taters and we need to keep it that way.
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Old 05-14-2014, 09:31 PM   #74
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Default Re: CAROLINA vs CLEMSON (Five Years Later)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandstorm2001 View Post
Without reading the entire thread, I think if Clemson had allowed Tommy Bowden to finish that season and they had been able to keep their class intact we would not be where we are now. Them losing some of the talent from that class and us benefiting from gaining it was crucial. I guess you could argue that we may have still gotten some of those players or they may still have converted if Tommy hadn't left at all, but that's a lot of speculation. It's been written that by playing one of the worst games of his career Chris Smelley sealed Dabo into a head coaching spot and sealed the current state of the rivalry. I think that also has some merit, because I don't know if Dabo would have gotten the job so easily without the win over us.
I have always had this thought in the back of my mind. If Clemson kept Bowden and the recruits that he had, there might have been many more future recruits of ours that would have chosen to play for the Tigers. The 2009 recruiting class really laid a foundation for our recent domination over the Tigers, and some of the bigger names swapped to being Gamecocks once Bowden was canned. We could be here today posing questions on how to beat the Tigers as opposed to keeping our streak intact.
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Old 05-14-2014, 10:01 PM   #75
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Default Re: CAROLINA vs CLEMSON (Five Years Later)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurticus View Post
It's amazing how much detail gets clouded when you try to recall something
that happened as little as 4-5 years back. I was thinking about this
thread today and wanted to do some personal research. I decided to
go back and watch the 2009 Carolina/Clemson game again, so when I
got home, I pulled it up on Youtube and just finished watching it again.

WOW

I remember the game, and the scoring plays, and I remembered the opening
series of plays that gave Clemson the 7-0 lead in less than a minute. I
also recall the turnovers on both side. .... However, for some reason, I
had it in my mind that, that was a closely played game and we were
able to finally put the ball in the end zone "here and there" and build
a lead late in the game. ...... That's not the case at all.
I also have heard Clemson fans even to this day, saying that we got
a few lucky breaks and won the game, and that they were actually the
better team in that game and season ...... WE TOTALLY DOMINATED
Clemson after that opening score by Spiller on the Kickoff. We took
control of that game in all three facets of the game and beat them down
pretty damn well. Even on the drives were we didn't score, we were
eating up Major chucks of time on the clock and Clemson couldn't
get us off the field. When we did end up punting or turning it over,
we got the ball back a few seconds later by turnovers or three and
outs. I knew Stephon played a good game as a freshman starter at
CB, but he and Darian Stewart had the Clemson ground game in their
back pockets pretty much the entire game. That was with CJ Spiller,
Jamie Harper and Andre Ellington carrying the football, and Jacoby Ford
at one of the Wide Outs. 24-7 about midway through the fourth Quarter
before Clemson's offense put the ball in the endzone against us that
game.

It was the beginning of a half decade of Taking Back the State, and
that game, and that team totally set the machine in motion !!!
OH, that was the second most dominant win of the five, the other being '10 in my opinion, they didn't have a prayer.
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Old 05-14-2014, 10:18 PM   #76
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Default Re: CAROLINA vs CLEMSON (Five Years Later)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurticus View Post
It's amazing how much detail gets clouded when you try to recall something
that happened as little as 4-5 years back. I was thinking about this
thread today and wanted to do some personal research. I decided to
go back and watch the 2009 Carolina/Clemson game again, so when I
got home, I pulled it up on Youtube and just finished watching it again.

WOW

I remember the game, and the scoring plays, and I remembered the opening
series of plays that gave Clemson the 7-0 lead in less than a minute. I
also recall the turnovers on both side. .... However, for some reason, I
had it in my mind that, that was a closely played game and we were
able to finally put the ball in the end zone "here and there" and build
a lead late in the game. ...... That's not the case at all.
I also have heard Clemson fans even to this day, saying that we got
a few lucky breaks and won the game, and that they were actually the
better team in that game and season ...... WE TOTALLY DOMINATED
Clemson after that opening score by Spiller on the Kickoff. We took
control of that game in all three facets of the game and beat them down
pretty damn well. Even on the drives were we didn't score, we were
eating up Major chucks of time on the clock and Clemson couldn't
get us off the field. When we did end up punting or turning it over,
we got the ball back a few seconds later by turnovers or three and
outs. I knew Stephon played a good game as a freshman starter at
CB, but he and Darian Stewart had the Clemson ground game in their
back pockets pretty much the entire game. That was with CJ Spiller,
Jamie Harper and Andre Ellington carrying the football, and Jacoby Ford
at one of the Wide Outs. 24-7 about midway through the fourth Quarter
before Clemson's offense put the ball in the endzone against us that
game.

It was the beginning of a half decade of Taking Back the State, and
that game, and that team totally set the machine in motion !!!
After you posted this, I too went back to take a look at that game. Garcia played pretty well except for his INT. Moe Brown looked pretty good in that game. Also, Kenny Miles made plays when he needed too.

Damn, what could have been with Garcia. Also, 2009, that game seems SO LONG AGO. Even though that year is when we really turned the corner, it seems almost foreign to me.
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Old 05-15-2014, 01:07 PM   #77
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Default Re: CAROLINA vs CLEMSON (Five Years Later)

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Originally Posted by Spurticus View Post
It's amazing how much detail gets clouded when you try to recall something
that happened as little as 4-5 years back. I was thinking about this
thread today and wanted to do some personal research. I decided to
go back and watch the 2009 Carolina/Clemson game again, so when I
got home, I pulled it up on Youtube and just finished watching it again.

WOW

I remember the game, and the scoring plays, and I remembered the opening
series of plays that gave Clemson the 7-0 lead in less than a minute. I
also recall the turnovers on both side. .... However, for some reason, I
had it in my mind that, that was a closely played game and we were
able to finally put the ball in the end zone "here and there" and build
a lead late in the game. ...... That's not the case at all.
I also have heard Clemson fans even to this day, saying that we got
a few lucky breaks and won the game, and that they were actually the
better team in that game and season ...... WE TOTALLY DOMINATED
Clemson after that opening score by Spiller on the Kickoff. We took
control of that game in all three facets of the game and beat them down
pretty damn well. Even on the drives were we didn't score, we were
eating up Major chucks of time on the clock and Clemson couldn't
get us off the field. When we did end up punting or turning it over,
we got the ball back a few seconds later by turnovers or three and
outs. I knew Stephon played a good game as a freshman starter at
CB, but he and Darian Stewart had the Clemson ground game in their
back pockets pretty much the entire game. That was with CJ Spiller,
Jamie Harper and Andre Ellington carrying the football, and Jacoby Ford
at one of the Wide Outs. 24-7 about midway through the fourth Quarter
before Clemson's offense put the ball in the endzone against us that
game.

It was the beginning of a half decade of Taking Back the State, and
that game, and that team totally set the machine in motion !!!
That 2009 game was the first game I attended in 9 years. We DOMINATED Clemson that day. The opening kickoff was a joke. First kick was called back (I was sitting behind Spiller in the end zone) for an offsides. To this day, I'm not sure anyone knows why. After that, Spiller returned it for a TD. And that was it for Clemson.

He left the game later. And recalling the stats from my head alone, I believe he had 32 yards rushing that day. We DESTROYED Clemson in that game. It wasn't even close. The score made it look closer than it was. The sad thing is that ESPN showed the highlights of the game and showed Spiller's kickoff TD. Made it look like he did something that day when the entire day he was a complete joke. Anyone who watched that game knew that it was laughable to consider him the best player in the country.
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Old 05-15-2014, 01:31 PM   #78
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Default Re: CAROLINA vs CLEMSON (Five Years Later)

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Originally Posted by TAFC 5 1981 View Post
There is some merit to this. I do think SC was the better team in 2008, but stunk up the field. I do find it interesting if that game helped Dabo get the job, that losing 5 straight had no negative impact on him getting a renewal.
A fair point, but from what I recall there wasn't really much else done that year by Clemson that would warrant so easily giving him the job, and it's not like he had the resume for it or something. As far as keeping him on now, if he was only winning 7 or 8 games a year and losing to us he would be gone. He's winning enough of the others that losing to us isn't going to cost him his job, especially when we are a highly ranked team and it's not just them folding to some untangled 6-5 team every year.
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Old 05-15-2014, 08:18 PM   #79
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Default Re: CAROLINA vs CLEMSON (Five Years Later)

One of the big differences, I think, is that Clemson tries to recruit a couple of big name players, Watkins, Nuk, etc.. people who can have some big plays.

They try to find the flash, but they don't get and/or develop the more core players that make those players be able to do what they need to do.

Sure, playing crappy ACC teams, those flash players won't have trouble, but when you play real teams like Carolina and FSU (yes, it hurt to say that, but it's true) then other than a couple of times they can bet the coverage, they are rendered almost totally impotent.


(Hopefully no one else said that, I admit I didn't read all 4 pages, LOL)
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Old 05-15-2014, 08:30 PM   #80
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Default Re: CAROLINA vs CLEMSON (Five Years Later)

[quote=gamecockgal;4158368]One of the big differences, I think, is that Clemson tries to recruit a couple of big name players, Watkins, Nuk, etc.. people who can have some big plays.

They try to find the flash, but they don't get and/or develop the more core players that make those players be able to do what they need to do.


Good point. The CU team of the 80s had less flash but was more physical.
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