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Old 06-18-2014, 06:50 PM   #661
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Default Re: Discussion: 2015 Recruiting Impressions

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Originally Posted by paynemd2 View Post
Yeah I think the Thomas situation caught our coaches by surprise. He was on track when we took the commitment. It sucks that this has happened but honestly I don't think it makes much of a difference on this years team (other than the Thomas situation in my opinion as He could be an early contributer from Juco).

Would you prefer to pass on Wideman/Sawyer and take a lesser talent who will qualify but not play this year anyway or take Sawyer/Wideman have them go somewhere else and play and develop and then come back to us next year ready to go?

For me give me the guys with the most talent in Sawyer and Wideman. If it doesn't work out then we have space to take more talent this year. None of the DE's we were in it with would be starting on our line this year anyway (maybe Thomas) they would be depth and likely redshirts. That means that getting Sawyer and Wideman a year later is essentially the same as redshirting
Agreed. Only think I would add is they miss out on the time with our S&C coach and learning our playbook but both of those are minimal issues.
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Old 06-18-2014, 06:50 PM   #662
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Default Re: Discussion: 2015 Recruiting Impressions

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Originally Posted by CHSgc View Post
Hindsight is 20/20 but these academic issues didn't take us entirely by surprise, let's be real.

As for who we should've gone after instead, that's a question for the coaches (I remember us being in the thick of it w/ Andrew Williams, though, for a bit, and there was a lengthy DE from NC that I always wondered why we didn't pursue aggressively). My point is simply that our "strategy" did not produce much, and going forward I think we should be more careful a/b recruiting guys w/ suspect academics (or at least not recruit 3 guys at the same position of need w/ suspect academics). I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that the staff probably learned a bit from this, too.



This is an example of our staff working to SAVE our strategy, it was not their original intent to sign 3 DEs who can't qualify. And while what you say may be the intent of our staff going forward, we'll see how it pans out.



A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. I'd rather have players in the program now, learning now, working out now, bonding now. And it may be your supposition that some lower ranked guys couldn't have pushed for PT, but the fact is w/o having them in the program we'll never know. And god forbid we get the injury bug at that position. If you want to recruit DEs on a two year cycle then that's fine, but too often we've seen this sort of thing play out where it leads to strange gaps in depth.

Well all the other birds had plenty of chances to get in the hand and chose not to. We had 5 commits on the last day. It's not like the coaches didn't offer others, visit others, encourage others and have them visit us. It was a tough cycle, we weren't getting certain guys that were at one point sure fire Gamecocks and we got chances on some that were a flat surprise to me. (like McClain) I am not sure the coaches could have done anything else. We weren't exactly slow playing people to my knowledge so these guys would commit.

And as far as the ones who have left the program, we have a few guys worthy of scholarships right now that weren't getting them like Orth and Whitehurst, maybe even Gist. I don't know what conversations they had with the coaches, but unfortunate situations arise now and then and that is exactly what they are, unfortunate circumstances.

Now maybe I'm wrong, if someone can point me to a quality prospect at DE or DT we turned down or slow played so we could get some of the guys that didn't qualify, I'll gladly eat my words.
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Old 06-18-2014, 07:33 PM   #663
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Default Re: Discussion: 2015 Recruiting Impressions

GoGamecocks reporting that Blue will qualify.
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Old 06-18-2014, 07:41 PM   #664
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Default Re: Discussion: 2015 Recruiting Impressions

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These two posts.
So you would rather have 2 players with marginal talent who may never contribute instead of waiting for the prep stars to qualify, who would you rather have on campus now then waiting for Sawyer, Thomas....
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Old 06-18-2014, 07:42 PM   #665
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Default Re: Discussion: 2015 Recruiting Impressions

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Originally Posted by trapper82 View Post
Well all the other birds had plenty of chances to get in the hand and chose not to. We had 5 commits on the last day. It's not like the coaches didn't offer others, visit others, encourage others and have them visit us. It was a tough cycle, we weren't getting certain guys that were at one point sure fire Gamecocks and we got chances on some that were a flat surprise to me. (like McClain) I am not sure the coaches could have done anything else. We weren't exactly slow playing people to my knowledge so these guys would commit.
That's a good point, to be sure. There's just a lot we don't know a/b a very opaque process. We very well could've exhausted a lot of our options in anticipation of the risk of these guys not qualifying. Thomas had to have caught the staff by surprise, though.

Excellent news a/b Tyrek Cole and Blue, too.
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Old 06-18-2014, 07:44 PM   #666
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Default Re: Discussion: 2015 Recruiting Impressions

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Hindsight is 20/20 but these academic issues didn't take us entirely by surprise, let's be real.

As for who we should've gone after instead, that's a question for the coaches (I remember us being in the thick of it w/ Andrew Williams, though, for a bit, and there was a lengthy DE from NC that I always wondered why we didn't pursue aggressively). My point is simply that our "strategy" did not produce much, and going forward I think we should be more careful a/b recruiting guys w/ suspect academics (or at least not recruit 3 guys at the same position of need w/ suspect academics). I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that the staff probably learned a bit from this, too.



This is an example of our staff working to SAVE our strategy, it was not their original intent to sign 3 DEs who can't qualify. And while what you say may be the intent of our staff going forward, we'll see how it pans out.



A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. I'd rather have players in the program now, learning now, working out now, bonding now. And it may be your supposition that some lower ranked guys couldn't have pushed for PT, but the fact is w/o having them in the program we'll never know. And god forbid we get the injury bug at that position. If you want to recruit DEs on a two year cycle then that's fine, but too often we've seen this sort of thing play out where it leads to strange gaps in depth.
It is not a strategy, it is recruiting and you have to change your strategy numerous times when dealing with kids but to say it is "dumb strategy" by the coaches is just wrong IMO
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Old 06-18-2014, 07:47 PM   #667
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Default Re: Discussion: 2015 Recruiting Impressions

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Well all the other birds had plenty of chances to get in the hand and chose not to. We had 5 commits on the last day. It's not like the coaches didn't offer others, visit others, encourage others and have them visit us. It was a tough cycle, we weren't getting certain guys that were at one point sure fire Gamecocks and we got chances on some that were a flat surprise to me. (like McClain) I am not sure the coaches could have done anything else. We weren't exactly slow playing people to my knowledge so these guys would commit.

And as far as the ones who have left the program, we have a few guys worthy of scholarships right now that weren't getting them like Orth and Whitehurst, maybe even Gist. I don't know what conversations they had with the coaches, but unfortunate situations arise now and then and that is exactly what they are, unfortunate circumstances.

Now maybe I'm wrong, if someone can point me to a quality prospect at DE or DT we turned down or slow played so we could get some of the guys that didn't qualify, I'll gladly eat my words.
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Old 06-18-2014, 07:57 PM   #668
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Default Re: Discussion: 2015 Recruiting Impressions

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Don't be foolish. We're only getting a/b 18. That leaves 4 spots open. And even if they couldn't have contributed this year, they'd still be in our S&C program and learning our playbook and bonding w/ our team (and perhaps even pushing our 2 deep guys, who may get complacent w/ their de facto roles as contributors).
the coaches did the right thing...at the time nobody knew what grades they would make in the future. and there weren't any other players waiting for us to offer. there is a very good chance the 2015 class will be a full class and have a few extra that are EE. it's easy to criticize after the fact. utimately both Sawyer and Wideman will play football for us and that's a good thing. the only thing that needs to be determined is when.
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Old 06-18-2014, 07:58 PM   #669
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Default Re: Discussion: 2015 Recruiting Impressions

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CHS makes good points. I have to agree with him.
he makes zero good points.....
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Old 06-18-2014, 08:01 PM   #670
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Default Re: Discussion: 2015 Recruiting Impressions

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Hindsight is 20/20 but these academic issues didn't take us entirely by surprise, let's be real.

As for who we should've gone after instead, that's a question for the coaches (I remember us being in the thick of it w/ Andrew Williams, though, for a bit, and there was a lengthy DE from NC that I always wondered why we didn't pursue aggressively). My point is simply that our "strategy" did not produce much, and going forward I think we should be more careful a/b recruiting guys w/ suspect academics (or at least not recruit 3 guys at the same position of need w/ suspect academics). I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that the staff probably learned a bit from this, too.



This is an example of our staff working to SAVE our strategy, it was not their original intent to sign 3 DEs who can't qualify. And while what you say may be the intent of our staff going forward, we'll see how it pans out.



A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. I'd rather have players in the program now, learning now, working out now, bonding now. And it may be your supposition that some lower ranked guys couldn't have pushed for PT, but the fact is w/o having them in the program we'll never know. And god forbid we get the injury bug at that position. If you want to recruit DEs on a two year cycle then that's fine, but too often we've seen this sort of thing play out where it leads to strange gaps in depth.
getting better players a year late is better than taking mediocre players a year early.....if these guys were our only players, I might agree, but we have more depth now than we've ever had.....
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Old 06-18-2014, 08:05 PM   #671
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Default Re: Discussion: 2015 Recruiting Impressions

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It is not a strategy, it is recruiting and you have to change your strategy numerous times when dealing with kids but to say it is "dumb strategy" by the coaches is just wrong IMO
The goals last year were to fill our class w/ four or so DE prospects who can continue our success at the position and make sure one or two of those four were capable of contributing immediately. The results? We landed one, and he doesn't appear to be ready to play. Clearly something went wrong, and we need to do a better job assessing academic risks in our recruiting evaluations. If you can't see that, then we're never gonna agree.
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Old 06-18-2014, 08:07 PM   #672
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Default Re: Discussion: 2015 Recruiting Impressions

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getting better players a year late is better than taking mediocre players a year early.....if these guys were our only players, I might agree, but we have more depth now than we've ever had.....
It's still a risk. We wait on players all the time who never make it in. And we're not talking a/b taking mediocre players vs the guys we target. The south is absolutely littered w/ DE talent. It wasn't Wideman and Sawyer and then everyone else was two steps behind. Wake the **** up.

EDIT: Also, we're deep at DE? Didn't realize that, what w/ experimenting w/ the 3-4, talk of blitzing LBs far more, having a lot of players converted from other positions to DE, and having very little returning sack production.
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Old 06-18-2014, 08:09 PM   #673
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Default Re: Discussion: 2015 Recruiting Impressions

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utimately both Sawyer and Wideman will play football for us and that's a good thing.
Name your figure. I bet one of these guys never makes it in.
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Old 06-18-2014, 08:09 PM   #674
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Default Re: Discussion: 2015 Recruiting Impressions

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So you would rather have 2 players with marginal talent who may never contribute instead of waiting for the prep stars to qualify, who would you rather have on campus now then waiting for Sawyer, Thomas....
We have little to no depth at DE this year, so it would be nice to have players who can play. How do you know how much a player will contribute? Sawyer and Wideman may never contribute here, but obviously I hope they do make it here and contribute in a big way. You have to accept the fact that those two may never play here.

As far as marginal talent goes, couldn't our coaches develop that? Everyone on this board tells us that our coaches are great at developing players, so why couldn't they develop a "marginal talent?"

Last edited by garnet_black215; 06-18-2014 at 09:00 PM.
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Old 06-18-2014, 08:54 PM   #675
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Default Re: Discussion: 2015 Recruiting Impressions

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It's still a risk. We wait on players all the time who never make it in. And we're not talking a/b taking mediocre players vs the guys we target. The south is absolutely littered w/ DE talent. It wasn't Wideman and Sawyer and then everyone else was two steps behind. Wake the **** up.

EDIT: Also, we're deep at DE? Didn't realize that, what w/ experimenting w/ the 3-4, talk of blitzing LBs far more, having a lot of players converted from other positions to DE, and having very little returning sack production.
it's part of the business.....and if you want more wins, you better learn to accept it because it's not likely to change.....
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:00 PM   #676
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Name your figure. I bet one of these guys never makes it in.
that could be, but that's not what I'm arguing.....you're missing the point.....how could we know if either will make it in......answer, you can't.....the coaches will continue to recruit kids they think, based on information they have, will make it in.......some will, some won't.....as I said before, I'd rather have either or both these guys a year late than never....
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:00 PM   #677
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Default Re: Discussion: 2015 Recruiting Impressions

I warned y'all not to count your chickens when it came to the JUCO's.
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:02 PM   #678
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Default Re: Discussion: 2015 Recruiting Impressions

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We have little to no depth at DE this year, so it would be nice to have players who can play. How do you know how much a player will contribute? Sawyer and Wideman may never contribute here, but obviously I hope they do make it here and contribute in a big way. You have to accept the fact that those two may never play here.

As far as marginal talent goes, couldn't our coaches develop that? Everyone on this board tells us that our coaches are great at developing players, so why couldn't they develop a "marginal talent?"
maybe this is the reason the coaches want to take at least 4-5 DE in this class because they don't know who's going to make it.....
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:03 PM   #679
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Name your figure. I bet one of these guys never makes it in.
No way I would bet on this.
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:08 PM   #680
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I warned y'all not to count your chickens when it came to the JUCO's.
so says the resident albarn football genius.....you win some you lose some, that's how the game is played.....I don't remember seeing the list of auburn recruits headed to medical school....those being the same ones you were recruiting....
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