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Old 06-26-2014, 10:54 AM   #141
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Default Re: D.Thompson vs mizz u.

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Originally Posted by CoverTwo View Post
I don't think there is much wrong with trying to do what Petrino did at Arkansas. I'd argue that talent wise, the offensive line we have right now is better than any of the ones Petrino had in Fayetteville. I also think that Dylan Thompson has the ability to be every bit as good as Tyler Wilson was. In fact I think our entire offensive personnel might be better than what he had at Arkansas .. Wide Receiver may be a push.

I think the one big difference between what Petrino did and what Spurrier wants to do is that Spurrier's run game is finesse, Petrino's was power.
"I also think that Dylan Thompson has the ability to be every bit as good as Tyler Wilson was."

I disagree with this statement but we will be a better team than what Petrino put on the field back then.
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Old 06-26-2014, 11:03 AM   #142
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Default Re: D.Thompson vs mizz u.

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60/40 pass.

What could be argued his best years at Florida:

In 2001:

Grossman - 395 pass attempts

Graham/Gillespie/Cothron - 255 rush attempts combined

In 1995:

Wuerffel/Kresser - 437 pass attempts combined

Jackson/Williams/Taylor - 284 rush attempts combined


I rummaged through the other years at Florida and the ratio came out about the same.

Whats interesting though is at Florida, most years he had 2 backs with about equal number of carries.
1996: UF National Championship under Spurrier

32 passes a game. 34 rushes a game.

LINK
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Old 06-26-2014, 11:15 AM   #143
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Default Re: D.Thompson vs mizz u.

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1996: UF National Championship under Spurrier

32 passes a game. 34 rushes a game.

LINK
5 rushes a game that were sacks. Need to account for that.
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Old 06-26-2014, 11:26 AM   #144
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Default Re: D.Thompson vs mizz u.

Ah that's right, they won the 'ship in 96 not 95. Still though:

1990: Matthews 378 / Rhett-McClendon 275 (58%)
1991: Matthews 361 / Rhett 224 (62%)
1992: Matthews 463 / Rhett 250 (65%)
1993: Wuerffel-Dean 473 / Rhett 247 (66%)
1994: Wuerffel-Dean 392 / Taylor-Williams 294 (57%)
1995: Wuerffel-Kresser 437 / Jackson-Williams-Taylor 284 (61%)
1996: Wuerffel 360 / Williams-Taylor-Jackson 289 (55%)
1997: Johnson 269 / Taylor-Carroll 256 (51%)
1998: Johnson-Palmer 397 / Jackson-Gillespie-McCaslin 245 (62%)
1999: Johnson-Palmer 432 / Graham-Carroll-Gillespie 287 (60%)
2000: Palmer-Grossman 435 / Gillespie-Graham 246 (64%)
2001: Grossman 395 / Graham-Gillespie-Cothran 255 (61%)

Now this isn't perfect but it gives an idea .. I didn't include guys that had like 60+ less pass attempts or carries because that is basically garbage time. I'm sure if everything is added then it might balance out some. But for the most part with the guys that got the majority of the touches, they were about 60% pass.
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Old 06-26-2014, 11:34 AM   #145
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Default Re: D.Thompson vs mizz u.

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...Spurrier wants to do is that Spurrier's run game is finesse, Petrino's was power.
Can't believe you posted that....Marcus Lattimore, Brandon Wilds, and Mike Davis are not finesse running backs. It's clear to me that SOS has found a way to combine a power running game with his old passing game....supplemented with some QB runs.
It's a hybrid offense...we do just about everything...tossed salad.
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Old 06-26-2014, 11:36 AM   #146
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Default Re: D.Thompson vs mizz u.

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Now this isn't perfect but it gives an idea...
Aw Yazz...done went and did it again. Yea, 60-40/pass-run is what is about the avg.
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Old 06-26-2014, 12:07 PM   #147
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Default Re: D.Thompson vs mizz u.

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So you think we didn't stretch the field with Connor Shaw?
I know this much...I do not want us to revert back to an offense that kept us in the middle of the SEC-E. The zone plays and blocking have been game changers for our offense...it ain't broke.

I could not agree more.
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Old 06-26-2014, 12:29 PM   #148
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Default Re: D.Thompson vs mizz u.

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Originally Posted by CoverTwo View Post
What I want to happen is to have a balanced offense that is similar to what Oklahoma does.

What history has shown us to date when Dylan is in at QB is heavy pass. A lot of intermediate routes. 2nd half of UCF being an anomaly.

There has been nothing shown that leads me to believe that Spurrier is going to keep the same mixture of run/pass that he did with Shaw.

Again, I think it's false hope to expect that.. Just like saying this is the year where out tight ends are used heavily.
Again very valid point based on some, not all, past behavior. But here is some more truth. During the drop back & sling it years we were debating this same offensive strategy argument. A few of us didn't like what we were trying to do, rightly or wrongly. You took the opposite view. You defended that offense tooth & nail saying all we needed was better personnel specifically a better OL & there was nothing wrong with what we're trying to run. (an honest difference of opinion).

Fast forward to now, we have on paper based on draft projections the most talented OL in the last 50 yrs & likely forever. 2 OT's with high draft potential, an All-American Guard, a returning starter at Center, and another guard who was a former starter at OT. We have a 5th year Sr at QB that SOS hand picked, adequate receivers, and a stable of quality RB's. USC has never been set up better to run what you argued was a great scheme & now you're scared to death that Spurrier will run that scheme & you want to go to an Oklahoma type offense.

Look I agree with what I think you want to see, I just don't understand why you've done a 180. Did your thoughts just evolve? Still don't think we have personnel? What changed your mind?

BTW Nothing wrong with changing your mind. I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from.

Last edited by conwaycock2; 06-26-2014 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:01 PM   #149
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Default Re: D.Thompson vs mizz u.

Man i had such a good post wrote up in response to Flameout. But for some reason it didnt post and is gone. Ill retype it when i gey home.

But it basically said that,, the offense we were running isnt what kept us in the middle of the SEC. It was the talent we had trying to excuttte it. Spurriers FnG can still work great. Its been proven,
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:05 PM   #150
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Default Re: D.Thompson vs mizz u.

One thing about the Florida running play numbers is the amount of draw plays Spurrier called. That was the bread and butter of his running offense.

I read somewhere, no idea where now, that about 50% of the running plays he called at Florida were draws. I guess that kind of goes along with CoverTwo's point about a finesse running game.

At Florida the pass set up everything. There were a couple of long days at Florida playing some teams with equal or better talent. And Florida had a losing record against FSU during his time there (though I guess pretty much everyone had a losing record against FSU except Miami).

But let's not consider the zone read or anything like that for the moment. The UCF game is about the only game I can remember where we made off tackle runs and got good results from it.

I really don't know what is up with that. We have recruited well on the line. I have seen other teams with what looks like lesser talent on the field and on paper, have a lot better results running that play, even against teams like mighty Alabama.

Marcus Lattimore made us look better than we were running the ball sometimes. I really don't understand our offense, at least the pre-zone read one. I have seen tons of pass oriented teams, BYU, San Diego (NFL), some others, and I have seen teams like that run off tackle plays and get yards.

If we don't run the zone read, I just don't know where the rushing yards are going to come from. And if they don't respect our run game, they are going to tee off on our qb.
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:33 PM   #151
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Default Re: D.Thompson vs mizz u.

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Originally Posted by TonyVercetti View Post
Spurriers FnG can still work great. Its been proven,
Which part? The passing game or the running game? And show us where SOS' old running game worked here with any consistency.

There's a reason SOS went out and hired G.A. Mangus and Eric Wolford/Shawn Elliott.
And in case you or anyone else didn't notice, our OL in '10 & '11 were some of the weakest OLs in the SEC. Marcus Lattimore would have never gotten all those yds in '10 if we were still running SOS' old UF running plays.
And if we'd been running Mangus' and Elliott's running plays in '06, Cory Boyd would have been a 1K yd rusher....Boyd was a beast and maybe as good as Lattimore.

As far as the "vertical" passing game...some of you seem to be clueless...I guess no one noticed those beautiful bombs Shaw launched last year that went for big plays. We just graduated argueably our best deep-pass QB ever...if there ever was a "vertical" passing game at USC, it was '13.
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:38 PM   #152
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Default Re: D.Thompson vs mizz u.

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But let's not consider the zone read or anything like that for the moment. The UCF game is about the only game I can remember where we made off tackle runs and got good results from it.
Do you know the difference between a zone read and an inside/outside zone play? Both can go off-tackle if the RB cuts outside while the DE goes for the QB. I don't think we have a straight off-tackle play that's not some kind of read and react for the RB based upon zone blocking schemes. Maybe if it's something run with a FB or H-B.
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Old 06-26-2014, 02:11 PM   #153
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Default Re: D.Thompson vs mizz u.

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Originally Posted by Flameout12 View Post
Do you know the difference between a zone read and an inside/outside zone play? Both can go off-tackle if the RB cuts outside while the DE goes for the QB. I don't think we have a straight off-tackle play that's not some kind of read and react for the RB based upon zone blocking schemes. Maybe if it's something run with a FB or H-B.
Go back and look at the UCF game. We had the fb on the field a ton that half.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vIoV3KnpI4 About the 1:12:00 or so. We come out first play the 2nd half and line up I formation, and run what looks to be an off tackle play to the right. Davis goes out the next play for something, then we line up in a spread and run Wilds. Davis comes back and we run I formation, with a bunch of runs through the middle of the line.

I'm not going to record every play of that half, with the formation and what hole they are going through. But my memory tells me we ran I formation a LOT, and we ran a lot of atypical for Spurrier power running plays.

To be honest I can't remember any other game since he's been here that we did that. Or at least got enough positive yards to keep on doing it. But it is in the playbook.

Somewhere.

That said, I'm not sure it would have worked if Central Florida's ends hadn't been so small.
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Old 06-26-2014, 02:11 PM   #154
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Default Re: D.Thompson vs mizz u.

I do not think SOS will revert back to the old offense, since Mitchell we have had a QB that ended the season with positive rushing yards, Syvelle Newton opened his eyes....

DT is a fast, athletic QB with good size at 6'3 220, I think he ends the season with positive rushing yards to include some crucial 3rd, 4th downs and 4-6 TD's as he has proven he can do in the past. I think he will put up stats similar to Garcia in 2010 to include 3000 -3500yds passing, 20-25 or more TD's, 6-12 or less Int's, with 25-30 sacks giving him over 300yds rushing. With the RB's behind him pounding the OL and LB's, DT should have quite a few easy 8-15yd roll outs this year and he will take a few 20-30yds with his size and athleticism. DT is a faster Garcia in my book...
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Old 06-26-2014, 02:34 PM   #155
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Default Re: D.Thompson vs mizz u.

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Originally Posted by sunbeam View Post
Go back and look at the UCF game. We had the fb on the field a ton that half.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vIoV3KnpI4 About the 1:12:00 or so. We come out first play the 2nd half and line up I formation, and run what looks to be an off tackle play to the right.
Good post & thanks!
We've had spurts in the past few years where the I formation kicked butt....and spurts where it got crunched. Seems that bad start v. ECU in '11 was lots of I where they blitzed and jammed the plays for nothing.
I think it would be cool to see the I do well for us like the days of Big George, but those zone plays are the bomb for us.
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Old 06-26-2014, 02:41 PM   #156
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Default Re: D.Thompson vs mizz u.

The zone plays work if you have a QB that'll make defenses pay time and time again. I think everyone is overstating Thompson's running ability. He is a bigger threat in the redzone than in between the 20's. Even Spurrier said that he tries to run more than they would like for him to.
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Old 06-26-2014, 02:47 PM   #157
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Default Re: D.Thompson vs mizz u.

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Again very valid point based on some, not all, past behavior. But here is some more truth. During the drop back & sling it years we were debating this same offensive strategy argument. A few of us didn't like what we were trying to do, rightly or wrongly. You took the opposite view. You defended that offense tooth & nail saying all we needed was better personnel specifically a better OL & there was nothing wrong with what we're trying to run. (an honest difference of opinion).

Fast forward to now, we have on paper based on draft projections the most talented OL in the last 50 yrs & likely forever. 2 OT's with high draft potential, an All-American Guard, a returning starter at Center, and another guard who was a former starter at OT. We have a 5th year Sr at QB that SOS hand picked, adequate receivers, and a stable of quality RB's. USC has never been set up better to run what you argued was a great scheme & now you're scared to death that Spurrier will run that scheme & you want to go to an Oklahoma type offense.

Look I agree with what I think you want to see, I just don't understand why you've done a 180. Did your thoughts just evolve? Still don't think we have personnel? What changed your mind?

BTW Nothing wrong with changing your mind. I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from.
I may have been unclear and I'm sorry.

I have always been a big proponent of the pass and Spurrier's passing plays. Nothing has changed there. Petrino has shown you can do it in this league. He also did it with less talent (if you believe in recruiting rankings) than what we currently have now. My Oklahoma reference is because they run a ton of shotgun but are balanced. They throw just as well as they run out of the shotgun. That's the kind of success I want to have here.

I like the zone read stuff we have done. It has worked with the personnel we have had in the past. I think it definitely has its place in our offense but we don't have the guy that'll make you pay time and time again for selling out on Davis. We are going to have to find some other ways to get rushing yardage. Whether its more under center formations or whatnot.

My argument however is against the 'we will be a primarily running football team'. I'm sorry but if Dylan Thompson is our QB, no we won't. Its going to be more pass heavy than what we have been accustomed to. Given what we have seen from the offense when Thompson is in, I don't see how anyone could argue against that until its shown otherwise.
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Old 06-26-2014, 03:06 PM   #158
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Default Re: D.Thompson vs mizz u.

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I may have been unclear and I'm sorry.

I have always been a big proponent of the pass and Spurrier's passing plays. Nothing has changed there. Petrino has shown you can do it in this league. He also did it with less talent (if you believe in recruiting rankings) than what we currently have now. My Oklahoma reference is because they run a ton of shotgun but are balanced. They throw just as well as they run out of the shotgun. That's the kind of success I want to have here.

I like the zone read stuff we have done. It has worked with the personnel we have had in the past. I think it definitely has its place in our offense but we don't have the guy that'll make you pay time and time again for selling out on Davis. We are going to have to find some other ways to get rushing yardage. Whether its more under center formations or whatnot.

My argument however is against the 'we will be a primarily running football team'. I'm sorry but if Dylan Thompson is our QB, no we won't. Its going to be more pass heavy than what we have been accustomed to. Given what we have seen from the offense when Thompson is in, I don't see how anyone could argue against that until its shown otherwise.
Agree, we will look to run off the pass while DT is the QB, the short and intermediate passes have to be accurate and when the homerun is open he has to hit it for our offensive game plan to be successful next year. Thompson will also have to make them pay with his legs to keep defenses honest, to be successful this can't be a go to play though or more than a 2-3 times a game play like Cooper in the WildCock.
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Old 06-26-2014, 03:10 PM   #159
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Default Re: D.Thompson vs mizz u.

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Originally Posted by Flameout12 View Post
Which part? The passing game or the running game? And show us where SOS' old running game worked here with any consistency.

There's a reason SOS went out and hired G.A. Mangus and Eric Wolford/Shawn Elliott.
And in case you or anyone else didn't notice, our OL in '10 & '11 were some of the weakest OLs in the SEC. Marcus Lattimore would have never gotten all those yds in '10 if we were still running SOS' old UF running plays.
And if we'd been running Mangus' and Elliott's running plays in '06, Cory Boyd would have been a 1K yd rusher....Boyd was a beast and maybe as good as Lattimore.

As far as the "vertical" passing game...some of you seem to be clueless...I guess no one noticed those beautiful bombs Shaw launched last year that went for big plays. We just graduated argueably our best deep-pass QB ever...if there ever was a "vertical" passing game at USC, it was '13.
The passing. It worked with Mitchell. Just not consistently. I watched the 2005 independence bowl last nite. And it was vintage spurrier. A ton of draw plays followed by deep passes. Same thing the next year in the liberty bowl. And 2012 when thompson was starting.

And your right about shaw. He was pretty good on the deep ball. But he didnt throw it much. And as far as intermediate routes shaw very seldom even attempted them.

Id have to say Garcia 2009 season had more deep throws than Shaw had last year. Many seem to forget that we went deep a lot that year more than 2010 actually. Had 4 300 yard games that year.
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Old 06-26-2014, 03:14 PM   #160
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Default Re: D.Thompson vs mizz u.

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Originally Posted by CoverTwo View Post
I like the zone read stuff we have done. It has worked with the personnel we have had in the past. I think it definitely has its place in our offense but we don't have the guy that'll make you pay time and time again for selling out on Davis.
How many running plays are zone-read plays?
I think you may have overestimated this....a lot of those are just straight hand-offs with the RB reading the zone blocking....no QB option included.
The bigger problem IMO, is not the QB keepers...it's the OL whiffing on the stunts/blitzes/overloads or 5 OL trying to block 6 or 7 people. This is where Thompson can be dangerous...he can make the opposing defense pay for trying to jam the zone run plays by picking on man coverage. If they blitz, they are giving up something....(e.g. Michigan).

And don't forget Pharoah....

The main issue is what you've posted multiple times: Can Dylan up his game, his accuracy, and his mental toughness on the road in hostile places?
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