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Old 06-27-2014, 01:43 AM   #81
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Default Re: Talent Level In Professional Soccer?

I wish too that our own University would do more for the Soccer program much less the rest of the nation. Too many soccer starts are getting lost before their World Cup days even begin.
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Old 06-27-2014, 08:56 AM   #82
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Default Re: Talent Level In Professional Soccer?

I don't think you necessarily have to dip into the NFL pool. Many of the NFL players, and NBA for that matter, make it to the next level based on their ability to physically impact another player, not necessarily based on skill. There are plenty of other body types that have elite speed and endurance.

I'm no soccer expert but given the flow/structure of the game, 2 halves without timeouts and minimal in-game coaching, some of the better players are also going to have coach-level mindset and intelligence. To me, that is what levels the playing field for smaller countries like Portugal to compete. Portugal has less population than combining Georgia and South Carolina. I don't think brute power, strength, speed and agility are going to impact the game as much as it does in Football and Basketball.
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Old 06-27-2014, 09:26 AM   #83
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Default Re: Talent Level In Professional Soccer?

If the MLS paid players on the same level as the Premier leagues of Europe, this problem would work itself out naturally...The salaries those guys get dwarf what our top paid atheletes receive in the US. That being said, I don't think that it is a simple as saying that our top athletes would translate to soccer if they were trained that way...if that were the case, you could say the same thing about them translating to others sports such as the big 3. There is no doubt that the US leads the world in American Football and Basketball, but beyond that I am not sure. I believe that the training that Euros receive for soccer is superior to anything that the US has to offer to any athlete regardless of sport. I would also say that the fitness level of these players in the WC is on a different level than the US power sports...so not only would you have to teach skill, you would have to increase fitness. I look at LeBron...one of the most dominant basektball players and he cramped playing a 48 minute basketball game in heat. I think that there is a lot of arrogance in this thread about American athletes. I have no doubt that if our best athletes played soccer, we would be far more competitive but I doubt we would be the best in the world. There are very few 6'8" successful soccer players in the world...I think that the lower center of gravity is a necessity...especially in the attacking positions.
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Old 06-27-2014, 09:29 AM   #84
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Default Re: Talent Level In Professional Soccer?

dont think we are the best in the world at baseball

but I agree with the OP's point.....Kobe could have been a world class striker, and to whoever said Lebron couldnt play in Brazil b/c he got cramps in SA in game 1, he totally could play soccer if he wanted to, his body would be alot different....he would have no need for all the bulk he has now, he is a world class athlete, i think he couldve succeeded in any sport had he started young and worked hard at it
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Old 06-27-2014, 09:32 AM   #85
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Default Re: Talent Level In Professional Soccer?

If kobe would be a great striker, then Donovan would easily be an nfl slot receiver
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Old 06-27-2014, 10:13 AM   #86
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Default Re: Talent Level In Professional Soccer?

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Originally Posted by ColaCock View Post
Right...and my point is that Deion Sanders could have developed that as well. Had he done that with his size and speed, then we come to the issue at hand...Messi as we know him today isn't as special.

I'm not talking purely size, speed, and weight. I am talking talent, too. The ability to shift gears and see the field like most WRs in the NFL do is sharpened talent.

...so in my little example of myself as a kid/young teen. I was a leading goal scorer and MVP of my team as a adolescent up until 12-13 years old. I was faster, more aggressive/tenacious, and simply more talented than quite a few of the others. I took my talents to football and baseball- the sports I also played, but really cared about. It's what I grew up on and my idols played. I couldn't name a single soccer player except for Pele.

Most of my future football/baseball teammates did the same...and left a pool of soccer players behind to play baseball/football. Those soccer players stayed with it through high school and ended up going to State Championship and winning individual awards for the area/league. I wasn't very impressed because I felt like if THAT KID who I schooled up and down the field at one time was "that good" in soccer, what does that say about the talent level? Also, growing up it wasn't "cool" to play soccer whenever football and baseball were available. That has changed quite a bit and is improving a lot, I can see that.

This is coming across as "soccer pulls the least talent of any sport" but that isn't at all what I am trying to say. If my hypotheses sounds like that in any way, it is only because (back to my original point) that America isn't the best at the sport (or near it) with the extreme talent and dominating players we have in the sports we DO focus at...then maybe there is a real talent gap for the professionals in soccer.
Did you grow up in the 80's? Soccer players got all the hot ass. Baseball players were all kinds dumb good ole boys and the football players were fat white guys or black dudes (except the QB who was BMOC).

LAX and soccer were the cool sports.
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Old 06-27-2014, 10:17 AM   #87
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Default Re: Talent Level In Professional Soccer?

^^^^^

Not trying to be derogatory when I say black dudes. I had some black friends - some were soccer teammates but the students at my school did seem to self segregate based on race when it camr to how the spent their time outside of the classroom, at the lunch table, etc. I'm sure a lot has changed in the last 18 yrs.

I don't think you are bashing soccer but are basing some opinions from antidotal evidence.
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:37 PM   #88
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Default Re: Talent Level In Professional Soccer?

Imagine if Ace Sanders grew up playing soccer...
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Old 06-27-2014, 01:34 PM   #89
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Default Re: Talent Level In Professional Soccer?

The greater point here is that we do not have a system in place to allow for even the most athletic players to truly shine. We have... Highschool soccer.

The soccer prodigies in Europe and South America go to Soccer academies that force them to eat, live and breathe soccer for their entire childhood.

Until we have a comparable system, Messi or Ronaldo would still be far superior to Calvin Johnson or Wes Welker or whomever you want out there.

Pure athleticism is only a fraction of the necessary components for a truly elite soccer player
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Old 06-27-2014, 01:53 PM   #90
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Default Re: Talent Level In Professional Soccer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballpoint Man View Post
The greater point here is that we do not have a system in place to allow for even the most athletic players to truly shine. We have... Highschool soccer.

The soccer prodigies in Europe and South America go to Soccer academies that force them to eat, live and breathe soccer for their entire childhood.

Until we have a comparable system, Messi or Ronaldo would still be far superior to Calvin Johnson or Wes Welker or whomever you want out there.

Pure athleticism is only a fraction of the necessary components for a truly elite soccer player

winner winner.

I've been researching the academies for a few months bc my dream is to have a sports academy for athletic development AND intensive academics...I'm tired of seeing super athletes that can barely spell their own GD name.

We have youth soccer "clubs" like the Augusta Arsenal, or Aiken-Augusta FC BUlls but those are teams...

it's not remotely an academy.

IMG Academy in BRadenton is one such academy but it's focus is baseball and football...although it does have soccer, it's very, very subpar
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Old 06-27-2014, 02:25 PM   #91
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Default Re: Talent Level In Professional Soccer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballpoint Man View Post
The greater point here is that we do not have a system in place to allow for even the most athletic players to truly shine. We have... Highschool soccer.

The soccer prodigies in Europe and South America go to Soccer academies that force them to eat, live and breathe soccer for their entire childhood.

Until we have a comparable system, Messi or Ronaldo would still be far superior to Calvin Johnson or Wes Welker or whomever you want out there.

Pure athleticism is only a fraction of the necessary components for a truly elite soccer player
JK made that point in an interview the other day. He said the elite Euro players didn't go to college, they went straight into professional league... sounds similar to the MLB process. He said our collegiate system was wasting 3-4 prime years.

No doubt soccer requires different skills than our contact sports.
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Old 06-27-2014, 02:58 PM   #92
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Default Re: Talent Level In Professional Soccer?

Case in point about Europe for a rising star in England. Adam Lallana, 26 years old, is expected to transfer to Liverpool. This would end his 14 YEAR CAREER at Southampton. Again, he's 26.
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Old 06-27-2014, 03:06 PM   #93
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Default Re: Talent Level In Professional Soccer?

PRIME example:

http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/stor...scom:FOXSoccer

A %50 million dollar fullback...
Quote:
Shaw said: "I am thrilled and excited to be joining Manchester United. I have been at Southampton since I was eight years old and I would like to thank them and the fans for everything they have done for me.
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Old 06-27-2014, 04:32 PM   #94
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Default Re: Talent Level In Professional Soccer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by uscjeremynca View Post
Case in point about Europe for a rising star in England. Adam Lallana, 26 years old, is expected to transfer to Liverpool. This would end his 14 YEAR CAREER at Southampton. Again, he's 26.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biocockanics View Post
PRIME example:

http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/stor...scom:FOXSoccer

A %50 million dollar fullback...
You are only reinforcing these players aren't physically talented like NBA and NFL players, but just play a lot and perfect their skill and maximize their D level athleticism.

Personally I will take our system over taking 8 year olds and putting them in sports factory. Sounds all too similar to communist Russia and China.
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Old 06-27-2014, 05:24 PM   #95
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Default Re: Talent Level In Professional Soccer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by uscjeremynca View Post
Case in point about Europe for a rising star in England. Adam Lallana, 26 years old, is expected to transfer to Liverpool. This would end his 14 YEAR CAREER at Southampton. Again, he's 26.
Liverpool needed a little good news the way this week is going. Didn't think this deal was going to get done. I'm hoping this doesn't scuttle the Shaqiri transfer. Without the cannibal for four months we are going to need to bring in as many attacking options as we can.
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Old 06-27-2014, 05:28 PM   #96
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Default Re: Talent Level In Professional Soccer?

Man you've realy eaten the exceptionalism crap hook line and sinker....

IMG Academy--a "sports factory" that churned out anmes like

Tyler Pastornicky
Nomar Garciaparra
Joe Mauer
Garry Sheffield

OUR OWN Renadlo Balkman

It's more known for football, however:

Anquan Boldin
Martin Gramatica
Darren McFadden
Cam Newton
Eli Manning
Dunta Robinson
--and many, many others.

ALso some soccer, since that is the topic here:
Aron Johansson
Freddie Adu ( I dont blame them for his suck and awe)
Jozy Altidore
Michael Bradley
Landon Donovan

So anyways back to the OP and away from the intentionally ignorant. Our top talent aren't ever developed in the sport bc of a lack of wide-spread legitimate youth infrastructure AND past cultural acceptance.
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Old 06-27-2014, 05:31 PM   #97
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Default Re: Talent Level In Professional Soccer?

Eli Manning went to Isidore Newman for Hs.
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Old 06-27-2014, 05:44 PM   #98
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Default Re: Talent Level In Professional Soccer?

Indeed, he took part in the professional development programs at IMG...like Kobe, Drew Brees and others

http://www.imgacademy.com/sports/ath...notable-alumni
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Old 06-28-2014, 08:23 AM   #99
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Default Re: Talent Level In Professional Soccer?

Don't forget there are 5 teams in the Top 15 of the FIFA rankings that have less than 12 million people in them, so it can be done with a small population (or percentage of one). Countries do not need to have the best leagues in the world to produce World Class international teams that compete among the best at every World Cup. South America does not have anything that compares to the Big 5 in Europe, yet they have been the best confederation at this summer's competition. The same is true for Belgium, the Netherlands, and Switzerland.

I think that US Soccer has 6 major things going for it:

-The MLS continues to show continuous growth and is currently seeing major investments from some of the World's economic elites

-The MLS TV contract increasing by a factor of 6 will accelerate the growth of the league's academy system

-Soccer is the preferred sport of Hispanic Americans, which is the mostly rapidly increasing demographic in our population today

-I think think American Football is going to eventually hit a wall in terms of youth participation due to the long term effects of concussion studies. Soccer is currently the top played sport by young Americans.

-The MLS does not have to go up against the NBA, the NHL, or the NFL. They have to go up against NASCAR, the PGA Tour, and the MLB over the summer months and all of those sport's tv ratings are falling like rocks.

-The youngest generation that we see today, is really the first generation where children's parents have played the game. Thus, parents (both moms and dads), not youth coaches, will plant the seeds of the sport in future USMNT and USWNT players.

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Old 06-28-2014, 10:36 AM   #100
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Default Re: Talent Level In Professional Soccer?

ALso to add yet another problem that has plagued US soccer....

For so long inept coaches at the YMCA have enforec "sharing" the ball...meaning as soon as the ball is at your feet pass it, this is...imho...why we dont see more people with the ability to make the ball ance under their feet...we're older when we finally have a coach who encourages creativity...


You've all heard about "selfish" child players....that's the utmost bullshit I've ever heard.
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