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Old 07-11-2014, 12:53 PM   #21
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Default Re: Messi vs Germany

Argentina doesn't stand a chance.
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Old 07-11-2014, 12:57 PM   #22
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Default Re: Messi vs Germany

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Originally Posted by uscjeremynca View Post
Do you think I'm some dumb American who doesn't know the game? You think you are an expert on this board? I watch the sport all year round. I've seen most of the matches in the World Cup.

It's one thing to know the game. It's another to let your bias keep you from seeing reality. Everyone on the planet but you would agree that Messi has been the most important player for Argentina. They wouldn't be in this World Cup without him. Yes, Higuain had a crucial goal. Mascherano has been underrated and not gotten the attention for the little things he has done. Di Maria has played a vital role.

However, for you to say that Messi has been in overrated in this World Cup is ignorant. He has been the most important player for his team even when he wasn't scoring. All the time, he has 2 or 3 players on him when he has the ball. Yet he creates space, passes, scores, and doesn't always fall down when guys are physical with him (Ronaldo could learn something from this).

Your statement about Messi being overrated, especially in this World Cup, shows your bias.

Personally, I think Germany has played the best football in this tournament and definitely the most beautiful football. I like Argentina but think they are lucky to be here. They had an easy group, haven't played that great, and aren't that fun to watch. Germany should beat them. However, Messi deserves the credit for them getting here (not ignoring the contributions of other players noted above).
Messi has no excuses for not winning this tournament.

You think beating Belgium and Holland is easy?

His teammates came up big when he didn't show up. Viglia is the new Gattusso. Rojo is the new big thing, Mascerao is great at his real position which is dm, Garay, Zavaleta and DeMichelis have been solid.

The engine of this team was/is DiMaria, Lavezzi and Perez have been doing their part.

Higuain finished Hollan, the ref messed it up but Higuain is there.

Point is, Messi has no excuses, this is a freaking strong team.
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Old 07-11-2014, 01:03 PM   #23
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Default Re: Messi vs Germany

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Originally Posted by uscjeremynca View Post
Everybody talks about Ronaldo and how he scores goals and how good he is. Here's the stat that jumps out to me - Shot attempts.

See my stats above - Ronaldo played 3 games in the World Cup and is 3rd in the entire World Cup is shot attempts.

In these stats, Ronaldo had 1018 shot attempts. Messi is 2nd with 735. Ibra is 3rd with 564. Just goes to prove that Ronaldo scores because he is the most selfish player on the planet.

Love this stat about shots outside the penalty area:

Ronaldo takes more than twice as many shots from this distance, but still has fewer goals overall (than Messi).
Yep, he needs to worry about being the best Ronaldo of all time before he wants to be the best player of all time. I'd still take the fat little Brazilian pie boy over Cristiano anyday.
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Old 07-11-2014, 01:17 PM   #24
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Default Re: Messi vs Germany

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Originally Posted by Kaka View Post
Let see if the most overrated soccer player of all times doesn't choke this time.

That's the least he can do, win this game.
You might not like the guy, but don't be a fool.
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Old 07-11-2014, 01:34 PM   #25
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Default Re: Messi vs Germany

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Originally Posted by Kaka View Post
Messi has no excuses for not winning this tournament.

You think beating Belgium and Holland is easy?

His teammates came up big when he didn't show up. Viglia is the new Gattusso. Rojo is the new big thing, Mascerao is great at his real position which is dm, Garay, Zavaleta and DeMichelis have been solid.

The engine of this team was/is DiMaria, Lavezzi and Perez have been doing their part.

Higuain finished Hollan, the ref messed it up but Higuain is there.

Point is, Messi has no excuses, this is a freaking strong team.
Ask anyone. They haven't played like a strong team. They've been incredibly weak. For all the names on the back of the jerseys, they've been abysmal and boring at times. If it weren't for Messi, Argentina doesn't advance out of the weakest group. Everyone may be playing a part but they aren't doing it that well. Players have stepped up in key moments but they haven't been great overall. Their offense has been horrible - not just the scoring but passing. No, Higuain didn't finish Holland - he beat Belgium. On a deflected pass from Messi.

Just because a team is strong on paper doesn't mean it's a great team. Despite what you read and see on the back of the jerseys, Argentina have not been a great team. Give them credit for their defensive performance though. Belgium was the same way. They underperformed as well despite the talent they had.

Belgium and Holland weren't easy. But look at Brazil - they had Colombia and Germany. Germany had France and Brazil. Netherlands had Costa Rica and Argentina but they also had a much tougher group. Every team in the quarters faced a MUCH MUCH tougher group that Argentina.

Argentina had the easiest group in the tournament, one of the easiest routes to the finals, and still have looked boring and abysmal at times.
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Old 07-11-2014, 01:59 PM   #26
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Default Re: Messi vs Germany

Is there 11 messi's? Nope. ok This feels like Germany's year. Argentina has barely skated by in this World Cup and Germany has methodically done well over and over. Will there be a poll or bet on this game here? Seems like many of you give ARG a chance.
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Old 07-11-2014, 02:02 PM   #27
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Default Re: Messi vs Germany

Germany was lucky vs France, and that Brazil game doesnt mean much, this is the worse Brazilian team I have seen, they got help to get to semifinals a d they lost their 2 best players.

Don't let the last game fool you, Germany couldnt beat Ghana, beat Portugal with a man up, struggled vs the US and France.

Argentina is solid, their defense is playimg great, now is up to Messi to make it happen, if he is the player some of you think he is, the least he can do is win this thing.

Big boys win big games...
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Old 07-11-2014, 02:03 PM   #28
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Default Re: Messi vs Germany

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Originally Posted by CockyLifer View Post
Is there 11 messi's? Nope. ok This feels like Germany's year. Argentina has barely skated by in this World Cup and Germany has methodically done well over and over. Will there be a poll or bet on this game here? Seems like many of you give ARG a chance.
Believe me, even without DiMaria, is a 50/50 game.
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Old 07-11-2014, 02:07 PM   #29
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Default Re: Messi vs Germany

Here is the way, statistically, the best players in the world are ranked. I'll use spacial analysis (at least I think that's what it's called):

#1. Messi
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#2.CR7
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#3Everyone else.

Argentina are a one man team. If they don't win, it's b/c they are a one man team, and no one should begrudged Messi if they don't win. But if there is one guy in the world that can win it on his own. It's Messi.
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Old 07-11-2014, 02:09 PM   #30
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Default Re: Messi vs Germany

I used to like this guy, but your homerism is clearly clouding your judgement.

CAN Argentina beat Germany, sure.

however, don't be a fool. Germany has the most dominant midfield in the WC and THAT has been their key. They are analytical, they feel out your weaknesses.

vs Portugal? They shot themselves in the foot and Germany beat them handily.
vs Ghana, a very physical very fast team that exposed Lahm NOT being the right back.
vs USA, Germany had nothing to prove on a pitch that was soaked...can you say play to not be injured and score if yo can without being overly risky?

I'm as big a fan oc soccer and of USA soccer as anyone bu i'm not blind enough to think that we can go toe to toe with Germany talentwise. Can we beat them? sometimes sure, are we as talented? no. as good? no.



Many people were claiming they were the best team in the WC...I disagreed, they played some weak teams but they matched up very well vs Germany BUT they didn't utilize the wings which is where Germany is most vulnerable...until they brought Lahm back to RB.

Argentina tries to drive down your throat into the heart of the German team. Messi will create his opportunities, but Lavezzi will be contained and Higuain will be controlled.

Airborn crosses won't work vs the massive German defenders. You're not going to outwit Lahm on the dribble.

Neuer is the best GK in the world right now, you're not going to beat him with less than technical shots.
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Old 07-11-2014, 02:11 PM   #31
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Default Re: Messi vs Germany

Aite! Well points well taken. I honestly think the United States were pretty good and are being accused of the traditional let down.
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Old 07-11-2014, 02:14 PM   #32
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Default Re: Messi vs Germany

Kaka has gone cuckoo. His blind homerism for Real Madrid players clouds his judgment.

Germany had a tough group but they've gotten better and better as the tournament has gone on. Argentina just played one of the most boring, lackluster matches of the entire World Cup.

Yet Kaka wants you to think this is the greatest team on the face of the earth - because Di Maria is on it.
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Old 07-11-2014, 02:31 PM   #33
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Default Re: Messi vs Germany

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Originally Posted by uscjeremynca View Post
Kaka has gone cuckoo. His blind homerism for Real Madrid players clouds his judgment.

Germany had a tough group but they've gotten better and better as the tournament has gone on. Argentina just played one of the most boring, lackluster matches of the entire World Cup.

Yet Kaka wants you to think this is the greatest team on the face of the earth - because Di Maria is on it.
They beat Robben and Holland without DiMaria right?

Tell me the Germans didnt struggle vs France... Benzema penetrated the Germans any time he wanted to, Pogba made their mids look bad, not to mention Hummels pushed Varane on that lonely goal they had.

Yes, they had a one hit wonder vs a terrible Brazilian team, let see if they can do it again, I doubt it, that happens 1 in a million chances.
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Old 07-11-2014, 02:34 PM   #34
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Default Re: Messi vs Germany

Messi won't do sh!t in this game... if the Dutch can shut him down what can the Germans do?
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Old 07-11-2014, 02:36 PM   #35
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Default Re: Messi vs Germany

Can someone direct me to a thread about picking a professional soccer team to cheer for. I see the reasons for cheering for Seattle but it's Seattle. I really only follow the USA team and local soccer. Wish Florida could get a team to stick or the Atlanta team that has been mentioned. I hear the German league is fun to watch and I think FC Barcelona will be a goal scoring machine.
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Old 07-11-2014, 02:46 PM   #36
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Default Re: Messi vs Germany

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Can someone direct me to a thread about picking a professional soccer team to cheer for. I see the reasons for cheering for Seattle but it's Seattle. I really only follow the USA team and local soccer. Wish Florida could get a team to stick or the Atlanta team that has been mentioned. I hear the German league is fun to watch and I think FC Barcelona will be a goal scoring machine.
You mean this one?

http://www.cockytalk.com/showthread.php?t=207723
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Old 07-11-2014, 02:49 PM   #37
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Default Re: Messi vs Germany

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They beat Robben and Holland without DiMaria right?

Tell me the Germans didnt struggle vs France... Benzema penetrated the Germans any time he wanted to, Pogba made their mids look bad, not to mention Hummels pushed Varane on that lonely goal they had.

Yes, they had a one hit wonder vs a terrible Brazilian team, let see if they can do it again, I doubt it, that happens 1 in a million chances.
Um, they beat Holland on PKs in which both team sucked, watching paint dry was more fun, and the game was set back 50 years with that style of play. So yeah, if you want to say Argentina "beat" Holland without Di Maria then that's accurate. Yet Argentina sucked and were boring to watch.

So Germany had a bad game. Has Argentina had a good one? No, didn't think so. Their best match was against Belgium and you won't ever see that match on a highlight reel to teach kids how to play soccer.

Germany have been vastly superior to Argentina in nearly every phase of the game. Germany's midfield makes Argentina's play look like 6 year olds in a rec league game.
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Old 07-11-2014, 05:25 PM   #38
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Default Re: Messi vs Germany

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Originally Posted by uscjeremynca View Post
Um, they beat Holland on PKs in which both team sucked, watching paint dry was more fun, and the game was set back 50 years with that style of play. So yeah, if you want to say Argentina "beat" Holland without Di Maria then that's accurate. Yet Argentina sucked and were boring to watch.

So Germany had a bad game. Has Argentina had a good one? No, didn't think so. Their best match was against Belgium and you won't ever see that match on a highlight reel to teach kids how to play soccer.

Germany have been vastly superior to Argentina in nearly every phase of the game. Germany's midfield makes Argentina's play look like 6 year olds in a rec league game.
Other than the good game vs Brazil, what other "great" game they had vs a top opponent? Dump Pepe gave them 3 points.

If you actually did watch the Argentina vs Holland game, you will know that Higuain had a legit goal and it was called outside which it was a huge mistake by the ref.

Not saying Germany is a bad team but they are not as strong, both teams are playing better than at the beginning.
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Old 07-11-2014, 05:33 PM   #39
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Default Re: Messi vs Germany

Germany wins the game unless something happens and Mertesacker gets absolutely torched and is the reason they give up 2 goals. Still think it will take Argentina 3 goals to beat Germany. 2-0 or 3-1 Germany
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Old 07-11-2014, 05:33 PM   #40
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Default Re: Messi vs Germany

Messi is a badass who is not overrated. He makes his team better vastly.

Germany is the superior team.

These are my beliefs going into Sunday. I guess we will see how this plays out.
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