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Old 08-25-2014, 01:53 PM   #21
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Default Re: The 3-4

We will be running a 3-3-3-2 defense. If that makes any sense.

3 linemen
3 backers (Holloman,Moore, BAW)
3 safeties (elder, moody,golightly-mostly playing up closer to the line tho)
2 cb's

That's what our 3-4 will look like.

And our d ends in this in the Will be the widemans ans mclains and marquavious Lewis Kinda guys.
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Old 08-25-2014, 02:05 PM   #22
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Default Re: The 3-4

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Originally Posted by Emery View Post
No offense, but I can't wait for the game so all these hypothetical discussions about the new scheme can stop. I think I've read more about 3-4, 4-3, 4-2-5, 3-3-5 over the past few months than ever before. I don't care what they run as long as teams have more trouble rushing on us than they did the last few games.
Good luck with that but the discussions will not stop. If anything they will intensify.
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Old 08-25-2014, 03:36 PM   #23
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Default Re: The 3-4

Question: Why has this man had so many jobs?

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Old 08-25-2014, 04:58 PM   #24
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Default Re: The 3-4

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Originally Posted by ZenUSC View Post
We aren't the only team to be introducing this new style defense. It's not just a different formation it is a radical change in football as we know it.

The 3-4 will also cause changes on the other side of the ball too. Offenses will be able to do different things as well as not do things they used to do.

The 3-4 is not a formation change. It is a major change to the game of football as we knew it.
Huh??? The 3-4 has was invented in the 1940s, and has been a mainstay in the NFL and college for over 40 years.


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Originally Posted by ZenUSC View Post
It means there will be less big lineman on the field. No more will we see the typical 4 big guys on the line. It means if you want to play the interior line on defense in college football there will be less demand for your services. Speed is more important than size. Big means less now. If you're going to start on the interior D you need to be better than players were just a year ago since there are fewer job openings for the big framed DL guys and more jobs for the more agile, speedy mid size guys.
Again, what? I'm not sure you really know what a 3-4 defense is. Its almost the exact opposite of what you're saying. 3-4 defensive ends are much more akin to a 4-3 defensive tackle than an end. The 4-3 defensive end is designed to be more of a pass rusher, he lines up on the outside of the tackle or head up on a tight end. He has more responsibilities towards getting in the backfield, disrupting plays, holding the edge on running plays. 3-4 defensive ends usually play head up a tackle and are typically less athletic, bigger, stronger, and heavier than their 4-3 counterparts, and their job is to control run gaps, take on double teams, and generally control the line of scrimmage rather than shooting gaps. Its not unusual in a 3-4 defensive front to have 3 300 lb linemen. The whole point of us switching to a 3-4 front was because the coaches basically only have 2 4-3 DE's they feel comfortable playing and only one of those MIGHT transition well to 3-4 DE, and that's Gerald Dixon. Darius English I'm pretty sure is not going to be playing DE in the 3-4, nor are any of our backup 4-3 DEs, because he is not built to take on double teams on the interior of a DL. The whole point is we could use the fact that we have 6 DT's that our coaches are comfortable with, and that way we can get them on the field more and rest our DEs some.
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Old 08-25-2014, 05:04 PM   #25
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Default Re: The 3-4

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When we use it, we'll just remove Dixon (DT) and add BAW (starter).....all the other players stay the same......
This is incorrect, as I said in the previous post, the whole point to moving to a 3-4 was our lack of depth at 4-3 DEs, and our abundance of DTs. You'll most likely see English come out and/or Dixon (DE) and replaced by our other tackles. Now I'm not sure what our depth chart at NG/DE in the 3/4 looks like, cuz I don't think they've ever released that other than telling us the Rush OLB depth which was Bryson Allen Williams, Larenz Bryant, and Cedrick Cooper. However, I just don't see any way Darius English could be considered a DE in a 3-4, it would be very hard for a 6'6 250 lb guy to take on constant double teams from the OL and maintain his ground, especially a first year starter.
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Old 08-25-2014, 05:22 PM   #26
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Default Re: The 3-4

WE have tons of talent on our defense and whatever the coaches have decided to do will be fine because we have the players to pull it off.
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Old 08-25-2014, 06:45 PM   #27
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Default Re: The 3-4

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Originally Posted by Stonecoldcock View Post
This is incorrect, as I said in the previous post, the whole point to moving to a 3-4 was our lack of depth at 4-3 DEs, and our abundance of DTs.
The game of football is shifting towards getting more speed on the D side of the ball. The whole game is going that way. The 3-4 isn't something that just Whammy thought up. He's just keeping up with modern trends in football.
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Old 08-25-2014, 06:48 PM   #28
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Default Re: The 3-4

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Originally Posted by ZenUSC View Post
The 3-4 isn't something that just Whammy thought up. He's just keeping up with modern trends in football.
I don't know if it's as much that, or if it's using the scheme that maximizes our talent level on the field.
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Old 08-25-2014, 07:09 PM   #29
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Default Re: The 3-4

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Originally Posted by ZenUSC View Post
We aren't the only team to be introducing this new style defense. It's not just a different formation it is a radical change in football as we know it.

It means there will be less big lineman on the field. No more will we see the typical 4 big guys on the line. It means if you want to play the interior line on defense in college football there will be less demand for your services. Speed is more important than size. Big means less now. If you're going to start on the interior D you need to be better than players were just a year ago since there are fewer job openings for the big framed DL guys and more jobs for the more agile, speedy mid size guys..

The 3-4 will also cause changes on the other side of the ball too. Offenses will be able to do different things as well as not do things they used to do.

The 3-4 is not a formation change. It is a major change to the game of football as we knew it.
Not necessarily. The original 3-4 lineup was actually a bigger lineup. It featured a mammoth nose guard along with 2 DTs. The OLBs took the place of the DEs in certain situations. Three good big down lineman can tie up an entire offensive line and leave the LBs free to pursue the ball, rush the QB, or fall back into coverage as the situation dictates. It was basically a variation of the 50 defense with the DEs walked off the line a bit so they could drop into coverage easier when it was called for. Some teams run it now with 2 DEs, but that is mostly to get pressure on the QB with more quickness on the field. The trouble is that combo doesn't work so well against the run.
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Old 08-25-2014, 07:21 PM   #30
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Default Re: The 3-4

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Not necessarily. The original 3-4 lineup was actually a bigger lineup. It featured a mammoth nose guard along with 2 DTs. The OLBs took the place of the DEs in certain situations. Three good big down lineman can tie up an entire offensive line and leave the LBs free to pursue the ball, rush the QB, or fall back into coverage as the situation dictates. It was basically a variation of the 50 defense with the DEs walked off the line a bit so they could drop into coverage easier when it was called for. Some teams run it now with 2 DEs, but that is mostly to get pressure on the QB with more quickness on the field. The trouble is that combo doesn't work so well against the run.
Look back 25 yrs in football. The ratio of run vs pass has changed more towards pass. There are no more powerhouses running the wishbone to a national championship. Look at how Clemson has been stacking the box against us to no avail. Putting a bunch of big guys on the D line wont stop an offense like it used to. Speed is what stops offenses today.
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Old 08-25-2014, 08:50 PM   #31
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Default Re: The 3-4

ive said it a million times...

Ward runs a hybrid defense (alot of coaches do). Depending on the personnel he will run a 4-2-5, 3-3-5, 4-3, 3-4, 4-4, or a 5-2.

Its not rocket science. It's schematic play calling. It's all about whatever stops the offense.
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Old 08-26-2014, 02:48 AM   #32
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Default Re: The 3-4

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Originally Posted by ZenUSC View Post
The game of football is shifting towards getting more speed on the D side of the ball. The whole game is going that way. The 3-4 isn't something that just Whammy thought up. He's just keeping up with modern trends in football.
Did you ignore my other post for any particular reason?

You know, the more and more I see you post, the more I'm convinced you're just trolling subtly enough to get away with it for a long time. Either that or you're one of those people who literally believe anything they hear on TV or read on the internet without actually doing any fact checking. Like three years ago when you tried to convince everyone that there are people out there running sub 4.0 40 yard dashes.

http://www.cockytalk.com/showthread....ight=yard+dash

If you are trolling, then touche sir, you've been doing a good job for a long time, if not then I'll just say...

Your "modern trends of football" as you say is not so modern anymore. The trend towards faster more athletic players started around 20 years ago and Spurrier at Florida was one of the main reasons for this trend. South Carolina made this trend switch basically back in the year 2000 when we switched to a 4-2-5 base defense and have pretty much used that as a base ever since. The reason for the switch to a 3-4 now has nothing to do with your statement that I've quoted in this post. Just like many have stated we are going to really be running a hybrid 3-4 that is more a 3-3-5 most of the time, same as we ran a hybrid 4-3 that was really a 4-2-5 most of the time. The 3-4 is designed for the 3 down lineman to eat up space, take on double teams, and generally control the line of scrimmage while leaving the LBs to make plays. With out current depth at DT, and lack of depth at 4-3 DEs, we can generally get our best players on the field more while hiding our lack of depth at DE by using this front.

Any way, I'm sure you'll either ignore my post, or just claim you're right based on information that is not backed up by facts of any kind as is your normal routine. Have a good night.
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Old 08-26-2014, 02:15 PM   #33
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Default Re: The 3-4

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Originally Posted by ZenUSC View Post
Look back 25 yrs in football. The ratio of run vs pass has changed more towards pass. There are no more powerhouses running the wishbone to a national championship. Look at how Clemson has been stacking the box against us to no avail. Putting a bunch of big guys on the D line wont stop an offense like it used to. Speed is what stops offenses today.
The ratio of pass/run has not changed to the extent you may think. Most teams still try for close to a 50-50 split. It may actually turn out to be more like 55-45 or 60-40, but in most cases teams aim for a balanced attack. Defenses are too good these days. A team that is one dimentional on offense won't make it.

The reason clemsux stacked the box is because they didn't have the strength up front to stop the run out of their base 4-3. They really had no choice. I think if you look at Alabama, you won't see them stacking the box too much and they still can stop the run. That's because they have size, strength, AND athleticism up front.
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:10 PM   #34
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Default Re: The 3-4

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Originally Posted by GamecockSuperFan View Post
ive said it a million times...

Ward runs a hybrid defense (alot of coaches do). Depending on the personnel he will run a 4-2-5, 3-3-5, 4-3, 3-4, 4-4, or a 5-2.

Its not rocket science. It's schematic play calling. It's all about whatever stops the offense.
Exactly. Putting in the personnel that match-up the best with the offensive personnel on the field.
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Old 08-27-2014, 04:48 AM   #35
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Default Re: The 3-4

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Originally Posted by Stonecoldcock View Post
Did you ignore my other post for any particular reason?

You know, the more and more I see you post, the more I'm convinced you're just trolling subtly enough to get away with it for a long time. Either that or you're one of those people who literally believe anything they hear on TV or read on the internet without actually doing any fact checking. Like three years ago when you tried to convince everyone that there are people out there running sub 4.0 40 yard dashes.

http://www.cockytalk.com/showthread....ight=yard+dash

If you are trolling, then touche sir, you've been doing a good job for a long time, if not then I'll just say...

Your "modern trends of football" as you say is not so modern anymore. The trend towards faster more athletic players started around 20 years ago and Spurrier at Florida was one of the main reasons for this trend. South Carolina made this trend switch basically back in the year 2000 when we switched to a 4-2-5 base defense and have pretty much used that as a base ever since. The reason for the switch to a 3-4 now has nothing to do with your statement that I've quoted in this post. Just like many have stated we are going to really be running a hybrid 3-4 that is more a 3-3-5 most of the time, same as we ran a hybrid 4-3 that was really a 4-2-5 most of the time. The 3-4 is designed for the 3 down lineman to eat up space, take on double teams, and generally control the line of scrimmage while leaving the LBs to make plays. With out current depth at DT, and lack of depth at 4-3 DEs, we can generally get our best players on the field more while hiding our lack of depth at DE by using this front.

Any way, I'm sure you'll either ignore my post, or just claim you're right based on information that is not backed up by facts of any kind as is your normal routine. Have a good night.
I'm not a huge football scheme guru by any means, but this exactly what I was thinking when I hear 3-4.
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Old 08-27-2014, 05:52 AM   #36
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Default Re: The 3-4

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This is incorrect, as I said in the previous post, the whole point to moving to a 3-4 was our lack of depth at 4-3 DEs, and our abundance of DTs. You'll most likely see English come out and/or Dixon (DE) and replaced by our other tackles.
id still expect him to start at de if we come out in the 3-4, but we do have guys who are bigger options like deon green who have practiced as a 3-4 end. the typical 3 dl occupying blockers may not apply because of personnel the other team is using and down distance situation.

youre aware of this im sure, but its not just the lack of depth of our 4-3 ends, its the lack of an experienced pass rusher that we felt confident in giving us all sec production going into the offseason. keeping both of the 4-2 defensive ends on the field in the 3-3 may be the plan. we'll see how it works if thats the case. going into last season the plan was to have clowney play dt in the rabbit package. we tried that in the opener then basically scrapped it the rest of the season as far as putting his hand in the dirt from a dt position.
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Old 08-27-2014, 12:20 PM   #37
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Default Re: The 3-4

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id still expect him to start at de if we come out in the 3-4, but we do have guys who are bigger options like deon green who have practiced as a 3-4 end. the typical 3 dl occupying blockers may not apply because of personnel the other team is using and down distance situation.

youre aware of this im sure, but its not just the lack of depth of our 4-3 ends, its the lack of an experienced pass rusher that we felt confident in giving us all sec production going into the offseason. keeping both of the 4-2 defensive ends on the field in the 3-3 may be the plan. we'll see how it works if thats the case. going into last season the plan was to have clowney play dt in the rabbit package. we tried that in the opener then basically scrapped it the rest of the season as far as putting his hand in the dirt from a dt position.
Now obviously we're all simplifying these defenses and making generalizations for the purpose of discussion, and both the 4-3 and 3-4 are both very flexible and can employ a lot of different looks. And I'm certainly not saying you'll never see English in as a DE in the 3-4. However, just like last year the coaches weren't comfortable with English being an every down DE in the 4-3 because he struggled against the run, the reason I don't see him STARTING as a 3-4 DE is the exact same reason, his strength right now is not against the run, and if he struggles with this as a 4-3 DE, he's going to struggle a lot more as a 3-4 DE. Now he may have improved leaps and bounds, but I can't see him being a viable every down 3-4 DE... just don't see it.

As far as depth chart in the 3-4 we only know the non spur OLB position which has Bryson Allen-Williams, Larenz Bryant, and Cedrick Cooper. My guess for the 3 man front would definitely have Gerald Dixon Jr and Phillip Dukes at NG. Surratt could probably go NG or DE. Lamin could probably go NG or DE, I'm guessing DE. Griffin could probably do NG or DE. Deon Green is definitely a DE, Gerald Dixon and David Johnson are certainly DEs. I could see English being a DE or an OLB in the system but we know he's not playing the one OLB spot, maybe they have a base 3-4-4 that doesn't employ the spur too, I dunno. However, English at DE in a 3-4 I would see more as the non covered DE in pass rushing situations, so you'd see him rushing from one end and Bryson Allen Williams coming from the other. I would not be shocked AT ALL to see us run a 3 man front like Alabama where you got 3 300 lb monsters holding the line of scrimmage, maybe Abu Lamin and JT Surratt at DE, and Gerald Dixon Jr at NG, backed up by Dixon/Griffin/Green at DE and Dukes at NG.
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Old 08-27-2014, 06:04 PM   #38
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Default Re: The 3-4

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Originally Posted by Stonecoldcock View Post
Now obviously we're all simplifying these defenses and making generalizations for the purpose of discussion, and both the 4-3 and 3-4 are both very flexible and can employ a lot of different looks. And I'm certainly not saying you'll never see English in as a DE in the 3-4. However, just like last year the coaches weren't comfortable with English being an every down DE in the 4-3 because he struggled against the run, the reason I don't see him STARTING as a 3-4 DE is the exact same reason, his strength right now is not against the run, and if he struggles with this as a 4-3 DE, he's going to struggle a lot more as a 3-4 DE. Now he may have improved leaps and bounds, but I can't see him being a viable every down 3-4 DE... just don't see it.

As far as depth chart in the 3-4 we only know the non spur OLB position which has Bryson Allen-Williams, Larenz Bryant, and Cedrick Cooper. My guess for the 3 man front would definitely have Gerald Dixon Jr and Phillip Dukes at NG. Surratt could probably go NG or DE. Lamin could probably go NG or DE, I'm guessing DE. Griffin could probably do NG or DE. Deon Green is definitely a DE, Gerald Dixon and David Johnson are certainly DEs. I could see English being a DE or an OLB in the system but we know he's not playing the one OLB spot, maybe they have a base 3-4-4 that doesn't employ the spur too, I dunno. However, English at DE in a 3-4 I would see more as the non covered DE in pass rushing situations, so you'd see him rushing from one end and Bryson Allen Williams coming from the other. I would not be shocked AT ALL to see us run a 3 man front like Alabama where you got 3 300 lb monsters holding the line of scrimmage, maybe Abu Lamin and JT Surratt at DE, and Gerald Dixon Jr at NG, backed up by Dixon/Griffin/Green at DE and Dukes at NG.
You are wrong. I will tell you for sure that a DT will be removed and BAW or Bryant come in. Green and Dixon is a possibility to come in the second team with Green playing on the End. English will be on the end for most 3-4 alignments. It is possible for speed to cause just as much disruption on the line than power.

Last edited by CockFighter; 08-27-2014 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 08-27-2014, 07:55 PM   #39
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Default Re: The 3-4

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Originally Posted by CockFighter View Post
You are wrong. I will tell you for sure that a DT will be removed and BAW or Bryant come in. Green and Dixon is a possibility to come in the second team with Green playing on the End. English will be on the end for most 3-4 alignments. It is possible for speed to cause just as much disruption on the line than power.
First off, I'm not wrong, as I never said that English will never play DE in the 3-4. Second, you don't know any more than I do the actual depth chart for the 3-4, we'll all find out a lot more come tomorrow. Third, I'm just giving my opinion based on my knowledge of 3-4 and 4-3 defenses and our current players, I'm not pretending to be an expert and the coaches certainly aren't ringing my phone asking for my opinion. And finally, GENERALLY speaking the ends in 3-4 aren't meant to disrupt from shooting gaps and getting into the backfield therefore SPEED is a less desirable quality in 3-4 DEs than size and strength. 3-4 DE disrupt by holding up blockers and not allowing them to get into the second level.

So you really think even though we have a lack of 4-3 DEs, and the coaches have stated as much that they brought in the 3-4 due to this and to better fit our personnel, that they are NOT going to use the 6 4-3 DTs we have sitting around, but instead continue to use the 2 4-3 DEs that they are really comfortable with? When are Dixon and English going to ever rest then? Can no one grasp this concept just because they can't get past the fact they are called defensive ends? A DE in a 3-4 is NOT the same as a DE in the 4-3, its not that hard to grasp.
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Old 08-27-2014, 08:28 PM   #40
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Default Re: The 3-4

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Originally Posted by zambam View Post
the 3-4 is a new defense?
Change the game of football? What year is this?

Must be the late 70's since the 3-4 was hot then too.
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