Gamecock football Long Term Future and the SEC

[Aggie96]

Yes it can be done, Oregon has done it well, but several of the kids have returned home and some are even now playing for us. We have another running back that just came back from there named James White a freshman that you guys didn't get to see. Like I said, you can get a few here and there, but also remember that Oregon has that younger "cooler" coach with his style and jazzy uniforms. The kids see that as a destination spot and let's be honest here, USC is not that destination spot that will be able to draw those kids very often in your current situation. You can pour a ton of resource into it, but I am just saying your money and time would be better spent closer to home. You still don't have the younger and cooler coach part fixed either to draw those guys. People do pull kids from Texas, but it is top notch perennial teams that do and they get the kids that often times aren't recruited from the closer schools and hence are not the best. We won all of the head to head battles this year with Oregon. You can probably pull some 3* and occasional 4* but is that what you really want when you can pull better than that at home and spend less resource?

[kick_ball]

Aggie96 has a point went it comes to having a cool, sexy brand of football/coach that spills over into facilities, uniforms, recruiting etc as well as just general attitude of the program. A&m has a lot of "swag"/ attitude/ winning mindset or at least they showed it off las Thursday.... However it could also be argued we have a blue collar/grinding/win anyway with less flash but solid foundation and built for more long term success ? I don't know

[JTJGarnet]

Originally Posted by 18IsTheMan

Eh...Dantonio is already 58.

I also don't want an NFL guy. No matter what they say during the interview process, any NFL guy will head back for the pros if he has success in college.

This may be blasphemy, but what about Chad Morris?

[18IsTheMan]

Originally Posted by JTJGarnet

This may be blasphemy, but what about Chad Morris?

I'm fine with the concept as in a Chad Morris type. But we've seen far too often that a good D totally shuts his offenses down.

[18IsTheMan]

It's useless to speculate right now anyway about our next coach. There's no telling who's going to be the hot, available coach when SOS steps down. It will be a critical hire however. We aren't an Alabama than can go through a funk and just turn things around on a dime with the right coach. It's always going to take more effort to win here than at other more high profile schools. Coaches are going to have to work harder for recruits and, in many cases, do more with less. So while SOS has set our program up nicely, if we don't get the right coach to follow him, we very well could revert back to the early to mid 90s Gamecocks.

[sunbeam]

Originally Posted by Aggie96

J Sure you might be able to pull one or two kids, but reality of it is one of the huge benefits for us in coming to the SEC was that now the kids from Texas that want to play in the SEC can do it from home now. LSU has seen a drop in their Texas footprint and so has Arkansas. Both of those places are reasonably close to Houston and Dallas, but after that it becomes a big burden. That is also why you don't see a lot of kids from even Central or West Texas going much farther, unless their parents have money and means to travel. It is even tough for some of the Texas schools to pull kids from out west and in the panhandle. Hell it is an 11 hour drive from El Paso to Houston doing 80 most of the way.

Stuff you have mean in a purely academic light can be taken the wrong way, so don't view this as any kind of insult.

Is what you said about A&M coming into the conference negatively affecting LSU and Arkansas recruiting in Texas a demonstrated effect? Or just your impression?

That sounds like an entirely reasonable theory, what you have put forward. But I could put forward a pretty reasonable one that says a kid in Dallas watches LSU play a game with A&M every year, and is more likely to go there.

So is your theory backed up by facts on the ground?

Another thing is that... LSU for one just has absolutely no reason to go to Texas for anything other than a 4 or 5 star. Unless they get a warm fuzzy about some kid from Texas that isn't ranked super high by the sites, they can fill their roster with 3 stars without leaving Louisiana.

Dunno, just don't see how A&M coming into the conference can hurt their Texas recruiting directly. Maybe it is more a case of Sumlin beating out Miles directly as a recruiter for kids that LSU does want.

And well Arkansas isn't exactly where most kids want to spend four years. If I were a high school player I also wouldn't want to play for Bielema.

Then too southern kids (and I will include Texas kids in this one) seem to want to stay closer to home than recruits from other parts of the country. So maybe that backs up your theory.

Of course there are some guys that just want to go somewhere different, then even a school like LSU has to compete with Stanford and the like.

Again I know if I were a high school star and Stanford offered me, I'd tell everyone, Aggies, Longhorns, Tide, LSU, Oklahoma to take a hike.

If you can get in, you are crazy not to want to go to Stanford. Academics aside though the West Coast is a lot cooler at least to me than Texas. I've been to Texas (though not Austin) and the West Coast. Just no comparison. That cool, low humidity air in the upper part of the West Coast makes me a happy, happy man.

When I am there and come back home, I always feel so sad when I leave the airport and the... miasma hits me. I ask myself "Family why did you stay there back in the day? Don't you know you could have gone to other sections of the country instead of staying on this crap piece of agricultural land England gave you in the early 1700's? For the amount of effort you put into farming that, you could have gotten a lot better returns in a lot of other areas."

As an aside my dad absolutely hated Fort Hood. Worse than any other duty station to him. It was either "Hot as Hell, or Cold as Hell." He was totally thrilled to go back to Fort Bragg when he had the chance.

[sunbeam]

Originally Posted by JTJGarnet

This may be blasphemy, but what about Chad Morris?

As 18 said the idea is ok, maybe not Chad though.

But I have a theory, actually I have lots of theories.

I think we need to be a strong running team, if I had my way we run 2/3 of the time and pass 1/3. Unless they are stacking the box, then we will be happy to take what you give us.

It really does seem like defenses and athletes have caught up with the option. If they see it regularly they do very well against it.

But we need to run the ball without Stanford, Wisconsin, or Alabama's OL. So to me that means we run a spread.

Chad may have Malzahn connections but he is way too pass happy. My take on Malzahn is that he will use the strength of his players, and take what the defense is giving.

But in the end he is a run first coach, unless he is stronger passing than running or the defense is giving the pass.

Chad is just too pass happy to suit me.

Ideally to me we run something like Nevada did when Ault was there. Obviously the pistol, but that was a ball control team.

The hurry up works, but I would rather control the clock more.

But I really think that we will never be able to get the kind of linemen consistently it takes to run the I formation and power over people here.

An air raid would work, and maybe the fans would be happier with it. But given my druthers I want to control the clock and run the ball.

[wincocks84]

We need someone with fire. I think Shawn Elliot could be the guy. Now I know some will say that he hasn't produced, but this is a highly sought after man and he can recruit. Maybe he would be a better OC than OL coach. I think passion is what we need and he has it. Look at Dabo..say what you will about him, but he has fire and passion. He also has pretty good coordinators. I think being a head coach is all about management as opposed to running one side of the team.

[Aggie96]

Originally Posted by sunbeam

Stuff you have mean in a purely academic light can be taken the wrong way, so don't view this as any kind of insult.

Is what you said about A&M coming into the conference negatively affecting LSU and Arkansas recruiting in Texas a demonstrated effect? Or just your impression?

That sounds like an entirely reasonable theory, what you have put forward. But I could put forward a pretty reasonable one that says a kid in Dallas watches LSU play a game with A&M every year, and is more likely to go there.

So is your theory backed up by facts on the ground?

Another thing is that... LSU for one just has absolutely no reason to go to Texas for anything other than a 4 or 5 star. Unless they get a warm fuzzy about some kid from Texas that isn't ranked super high by the sites, they can fill their roster with 3 stars without leaving Louisiana.

Dunno, just don't see how A&M coming into the conference can hurt their Texas recruiting directly. Maybe it is more a case of Sumlin beating out Miles directly as a recruiter for kids that LSU does want.

And well Arkansas isn't exactly where most kids want to spend four years. If I were a high school player I also wouldn't want to play for Bielema.

Then too southern kids (and I will include Texas kids in this one) seem to want to stay closer to home than recruits from other parts of the country. So maybe that backs up your theory.

Of course there are some guys that just want to go somewhere different, then even a school like LSU has to compete with Stanford and the like.

Again I know if I were a high school star and Stanford offered me, I'd tell everyone, Aggies, Longhorns, Tide, LSU, Oklahoma to take a hike.

If you can get in, you are crazy not to want to go to Stanford. Academics aside though the West Coast is a lot cooler at least to me than Texas. I've been to Texas (though not Austin) and the West Coast. Just no comparison. That cool, low humidity air in the upper part of the West Coast makes me a happy, happy man.

When I am there and come back home, I always feel so sad when I leave the airport and the... miasma hits me. I ask myself "Family why did you stay there back in the day? Don't you know you could have gone to other sections of the country instead of staying on this crap piece of agricultural land England gave you in the early 1700's? For the amount of effort you put into farming that, you could have gotten a lot better returns in a lot of other areas."

As an aside my dad absolutely hated Fort Hood. Worse than any other duty station to him. It was either "Hot as Hell, or Cold as Hell." He was totally thrilled to go back to Fort Bragg when he had the chance.

To answer your questions, yes we have seen a drop in big named Texas kids going to LSU. We have not lost any big named kids that we were head to head with them on from Texas. Myles Garrett, Heard of him right? We are also now pulling kids from their backyard too that we're not an option before as often either. Speedy Noil is a fine example of that.
Plus it isn't just about an education for most of these kids that are stud ball players. They are looking for that big NFL payday.
Much truth to what I said.

[SCBLACKDOG]

Originally Posted by BuCockyfan

Uhh, those schools are a little different than us, guy.

We have to think outside the box. There is nothing wrong with recruiting expansion. We have to get our heads out of the sand.

[SCBLACKDOG]

Originally Posted by Wisercock

Knoxville, Gainesville, Athens, Tuscaloosa, Lexington ... I've been to those places and they have nothing on Columbia. With the exception of UK, what those schools have is tradition. We've been winning big for 4 seasons. UT, Florida, UGA and Bama have been winning for decades.

The problem right now is that there are no Lattimores and Clowneys in SC. We are going to have to sneak into Georgia, Florida and NC and steal some top players. Forget about Texas. We will never be a player in that part of the country.

Focusing on the geographic area this is what I think:

Clemson - nicer place to spend 4 years of college than Columbia. League they play in is suspect but they have lots of money. I'm still not convinced Dabo can coach - he has some very good assistants, but lose those and Clemson will fall off a cliff.

UGA - Georgia is rich for recruiting and they have a top DC now. What I don't like is their offense. It is boring (but gets the job done) and won't attract a top QB. A very good defensive team will stop their running game and force them to pass. I don't think they can win the national championship on Gurley's shoulders. (although he might win the Heisman this year)

UT - this is the school we should worry about. Knoxville is a grubby city with nothing to attract players and Tennessee is no hotbed of recruits, but Butch Jones is a top coach. They absolutely demolished Utah State last night and looked good doing it. Their game against UGA later this month in Athens will tell us a lot about how far they have come.

UF - I'm just not convinced that Muschamp can get it done. But Florida rarely makes the same mistake twice. If Muschamp is out after this year they will bring in another championship maker and not promote a coordinator. They are still a few years out.

I would say that right now (haven't see UK and Vandy play yet but Missouri looks like they are rebuilding as well) we are 3rd in the East behind UGA and UT with the possibility we could slip to 4th. Unless we get a big break recruiting it looks to me like we have slipped at least one notch and could slip another.

Depending on how the rest of the season goes I would say we need a new defensive coordinator. We'll have to pay them dearly, but we need a guy who can manage the roster so we don't enter a season with all new linebackers (last year) or all new cornerbacks and no DEs (this year).

Wisercock, I respectfully disagree with you. Athens, Gainesville, Tuscaloosa, Auburn, Baton Rouge, College Station, have better facilities by far. We are on par with Fayetteville, Knoxville, Clemson, Tallahassee, Oxford (Yes I mentioned two ACC schools but we do recruit against them).

[spurfan93]

Since Spurrier will be here for another 2-4 years, those thinking about a future head coach can't think about who's hot now because they'll likely be taken (Chad Morris).

The one guy that stands out to me is Rhett Lashlee of Auburn. He's worked with Malzahn his whole career and look at what they're doing at Auburn. He's only 31 so in 2-4 years, I think he'll have the experience of being a big time coordinator ready to be a head coach.

[18IsTheMan]

Hopefully, whenever SOS steps down, there will be a coach of the Charlie Strong type out there. Someone who's been working their way up the position coach and coordinator pipeline.

[ccured]

Sumlin's or Art Briles current QB coach. The OC will be gone in two years. The QB coach will be the new OC and then we can take him.

[Cockypantherfan]

Originally Posted by splinters

Still a fan of dana holgorsen....comes from the briles, sumlin tree. He is definitely on the hot seat at wvu but i think he would be great at Carolina

He might make a good OC, but not a head coach. He hasn't done much at WVU, what makes you think he would be great at USC?

[Garnet Gamecock]

Okay, this is a pet peeve of mine.

South Carolina has its drawbacks but it has major positives when it comes to recruiting -- we simply don't present them properly.

I have lived in Texas for 52 of my 55 years and the other three I spent when I relocated our family to Columbia.

I spent 15 years running a college guidance consulting firm and took a great deal of interest in the "intangibles" that each college has to offer.

Looking at things from a Texas perspective, here are just a few...

1) Texas beaches suck -- big time. Sure, you can go to South Padre and get drunk and play in the waves a bit, but the water is clear as mud. If you go swimming in Corpus Christi you get covered in freaking tar balls that you have to wash off with this God-awful solvent that's probably carcinogenic.

As a contrast, Texas students need to see the contrast that Charleston, Hilton Head and Myrtle Beach offer, and they are reasonably close to Columbia. That's the part everyone misses about Texas -- any nice place you want to go is a hell of a long drive. (Except the Highland Lakes and Hill Country around Austin).

2) 99% of Texas is flat as a pancake and boring to look at. The natural beauty of South Carolina is absolutely stunning to a Texan. Nearly every Texan I talk to that hasn't visited the Palmetto state is oblivious to all the natural beauty. Those that have come to visit on vacation, etc. are hooked.

3) Access. From Columbia, you can get to cool places like Charleston, Savannah, Hilton Head, Wilmington, Greenville and the Upstate in less than two hours. These places have beauty but they also have history and culture. To a Texan, being able to drive to such marvelous places (forgot Aiken -- big mistake on my part) in less than two hours is something they can't even comprehend. I live in Dallas and it can take up to 12 hours to get the hell out of the state, depending on the direction you go.

4) All I am saying is that South Carolina as a state kicks ass. USC shouldn't just promote Columbia when we recruit -- the entire state should be part of the offering. The history (Revolutionary and Civil War), the food (Texans go nuts over mustard-base barbeque sauce once they experience it), the culture, the natural beauty (hills all over the place, even some mountains in upstate -- and beautiful rivers with natural lakes -- Texas has one, just one natural lake!)

This is what Texans would die for if presented properly.

Add all that to a great institution where you can get a tremendous education... it's a winning combination.

Years ago I put together a college guidance portfolio of my own for USC for my daughter and her friends to look over when she was considering colleges. All these Texas kids (from the top public school in the nation) were totally blown away.

And yes, some did enroll at USC.

If we ever learn to take recruiting seriously, that's exactly what will happen with top-drawer recruits.

"Nothin' Could be Finer".

[HeadCockFan]

Enjoyed that^

[splinters]

Originally Posted by Cockypantherfan

He might make a good OC, but not a head coach. He hasn't done much at WVU, what makes you think he would be great at USC?

Young guy (43)....grinder (spends all his time on football not golf) single, i think he still lives in a hotel. His offenses have always been successful ( top 13 in offense 2007-2012) ( hiccup last year..he rotated 3 QBs due to injury etc)....this year will be the test to see if he survises at WVU...outside the box offense...recruits heavily in Texas ( even to west virginia). He has 9 Texans on roster this year.....and beat Clemson 70-33 in 2012 orange bowl :)

[splinters]

Originally Posted by splinters

Young guy (43)....grinder (spends all his time on football not golf) single, i think he still lives in a hotel. His offenses have always been successful ( top 13 in offense 2007-2012) ( hiccup last year..he rotated 3 QBs due to injury etc)....this year will be the test to see if he survises at WVU...outside the box offense...recruits heavily in Texas ( even to west virginia). He has 9 Texans on roster this year.....and beat Clemson 70-33 in 2012 orange bowl :)

bob stoops tree includes: sumlin and leach
Leach tree includes: briles, holgorsen, dykes
Sumlin tree: holgorsen, kingsbury

[FloridaVol]

The thing that South Carolina needs is a head coach that is young and recruits hard. SOS has never liked the recruiting grind and he never will. Great coach, but if you could get somebody who was relentless recruiting and expanded the recruiting footprint of Scar it would really help Scar out long term.

Without that, I could see you slipping back considerably.