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Old 09-01-2014, 08:49 PM   #41
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Default Re: The Demise of the 3-4

One thing not to forget is that, production aside, Clowney occupied 2 o-linemen most of the time. We no longer have that luxury and I think it's going to hurt a lot more than was anticipated.
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Old 09-01-2014, 08:54 PM   #42
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Default Re: The Demise of the 3-4

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Originally Posted by ReadR00ster View Post
My understanding is they we were not planning on playing one style but being multiple and going more with what worked better... which was nothing we did. I have hard time believing that trying to play tight man coverage would have made a difference. They would have burned by Seals-Jones and Noil either way. We just have no one that can cover those dudes.
When is the last time the team played tight man coverage? Johnson brought the bend then break pass defense and Ward is just continuing the tradition.
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Old 09-01-2014, 09:40 PM   #43
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Default Re: The Demise of the 3-4

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The 3-4 is not a bad defense, it just takes time for it to be imbedded into a system personnel wise. Alabama, UGA, Oklahoma and other top teams have been using is effectively for years.

We didn't get beat by the 3-4 on that side of the ball, our players just didn't execute their assignments. I hope we don't totally scrap it because of the perception that it is bad.

It just seemed like a crazy change.
Not only do we not have the personnel to run it, our current Dline under Deke Adams have a philosophy that is counter-intutitive to running a 3-4. As a Dlineman, your job in the a 3-4 is not to disrupt, but to act like an offensive lineman, eat up blockers and keep the line off your linebackers.

Our Dlineman for hte past few years have been taught to go get the ball, and that is something Adams has really pushed, using a bull rush exclusively.

If you go back and watch the game (I know...I haven't wanted to either) you will see our linemen shooting up field likey they are playing in a 4-2...but that allowed the the Olinemen to get the the second level and take out our LBs.

I agree though, it really wouldn't have mattered what D we ran when we give a 10-yard cushion to every pass.
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Old 09-01-2014, 09:42 PM   #44
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Default Re: The Demise of the 3-4

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When is the last time the team played tight man coverage? Johnson brought the bend then break pass defense and Ward is just continuing the tradition.
I would love to see our corners get in the guys face and go one-on-one next week. If the guys get beat, they get beat...but anything would be better than seeing us give guys easy quick throws (the thing TAMU thrives on and we played right into it...and it is the same thing ECU thrives on).

I'm serious, this Saturday is a gut check for Ward and the defensive staff.
Do they make the necesarry changes, or do they stubbornly stick to what they did last week, thinking it will finally start working.
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Old 09-01-2014, 09:42 PM   #45
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Default Re: The Demise of the 3-4

How the heck did UGA steal DC Jeremy Pruitt from Florida State? The guy won National Championships at Bama and FSU the last couple years as a DC.....and UGA got him now? And they looked CRAZY good the 2nd half vs Clemson!!

We need a guy like that.
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Old 09-01-2014, 09:50 PM   #46
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Default Re: The Demise of the 3-4

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When is the last time the team played tight man coverage? Johnson brought the bend then break pass defense and Ward is just continuing the tradition.
We had a safety and true freshman right out of HS staring at CB. Who are they going to be able to cover in man coverage? I like the fact that we lay off the WRs. It's worked great in many games. But you can't allow yourself to be blocked and you have to close on time take the right angle and finish tackles.

What happened to Smith? Are they trying to redshirt him? Because he a physical CB that we could use out there. There is no reason why he shouldn't at least be competing for the job right away.
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Old 09-01-2014, 09:53 PM   #47
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Default Re: The Demise of the 3-4

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We had a safety and true freshman right out of HS staring at CB. Who are they going to be able to cover in man coverage? I like the fact that we lay off the WRs. It's worked great in many games. But you can't allow yourself to be blocked and you have to close on time take the right angle and finish tackles.
In some ways man coverage is much easier than playing zone. In man you at least know who you should cover rather than trying to get to a spot and remembering who is supposed to go where based on the route.
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Old 09-01-2014, 10:22 PM   #48
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Default Re: The Demise of the 3-4

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Originally Posted by ReadR00ster View Post
We had a safety and true freshman right out of HS staring at CB. Who are they going to be able to cover in man coverage? I like the fact that we lay off the WRs. It's worked great in many games. But you can't allow yourself to be blocked and you have to close on time take the right angle and finish tackles.

What happened to Smith? Are they trying to redshirt him? Because he a physical CB that we could use out there. There is no reason why he shouldn't at least be competing for the job right away.
I know Al Harris Jr tried once to play tight man. He got tossed aside like a rag doll. He is smaller than Elliott fry. Fry is 6 ft 165. Harris is 5"11 162 according to the roster. BAW is the only player over 230 not on the line I believe and he is 231 on the roster. They are so small.
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Old 09-01-2014, 10:38 PM   #49
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Default Re: The Demise of the 3-4

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How the heck did UGA steal DC Jeremy Pruitt from Florida State? The guy won National Championships at Bama and FSU the last couple years as a DC.....and UGA got him now? And they looked CRAZY good the 2nd half vs Clemson!!

We need a guy like that.
Mark Richt has gained control of his defense. Pruitt may be the one piece UGA needed to make a serious run.
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Old 09-01-2014, 10:42 PM   #50
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Default Re: The Demise of the 3-4

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Originally Posted by TAFC 5 1981 View Post
Mark Richt has gained control of his defense. Pruitt may be the one piece UGA needed to make a serious run.
As long as they have Bobo in the booth, the offense will not be as good as they should be and that should work in our favor.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:37 AM   #51
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Default Re: The Demise of the 3-4

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Nothing to do with the 3-4 being good or bad, but the fact that Ward has always had a poor scheme for passing attacks. Ward has been overhyped during his time at USC.
Neither he nor any of our coaches has a background in the 3-4.....it sounded easy enough, just put in a LB and take out a DT.....plus we don't have DE or OLB that fit the scheme.
I think we go back to "dance with the one that brung ya" and go from there.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:38 AM   #52
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Default Re: The Demise of the 3-4

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Originally Posted by GSC2013 View Post
How the heck did UGA steal DC Jeremy Pruitt from Florida State? The guy won National Championships at Bama and FSU the last couple years as a DC.....and UGA got him now? And they looked CRAZY good the 2nd half vs Clemson!!

We need a guy like that.
DING, DING, DING!!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!!
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Old 09-02-2014, 03:17 AM   #53
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Default Re: The Demise of the 3-4

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I know Al Harris Jr tried once to play tight man. He got tossed aside like a rag doll. He is smaller than Elliott fry. Fry is 6 ft 165. Harris is 5"11 162 according to the roster. BAW is the only player over 230 not on the line I believe and he is 231 on the roster. They are so small.
I know the play you're referencing. The Tamu guy was 6-4 and didn't even notice Harris was trying to jam him.
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Old 09-02-2014, 03:20 AM   #54
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Default Re: The Demise of the 3-4

I'm not totally sold on Jeremy Pruitt as a DC yet. That FSU team had twice as much talent on defense as everyone in the ACC.
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:31 AM   #55
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Default Re: The Demise of the 3-4

It's been proven time and time again, you have to have the right players to run a 3-4 or it doesn't work. Some people are bashing the players and recruiting, and don't get me wrong, the players played a big role in getting killed the other night. But even in the NFL, where every player is talented, personnel adjustments have to be made to run a 3-4. They don't just show up for training camp and say, hey let's run a 3-4 with these guys. For the coaching staff to look at our defense, and know we are not built for a 3-4 and decide to run it anyway is a terrible coaching decision. I am far from being a defensive guru and I could tell you we aren't built to run a 3-4. I guess if they stick with it over time we will get better. But until you have the right players it will be an uphill battle. Yes, the players tackled like creampuffs and that should be corrected, but the scheme is the #1 problem.

I'm not sure exactly why they switched from the 4-3, but its hard for me to believe that Surratt, the Dixon boys, and English can't make a decent front four. I'm not saying great, but decent or good, which is way better than what we had on Thursday.
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Old 09-02-2014, 06:39 AM   #56
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Default Re: The Demise of the 3-4

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I know the play you're referencing. The Tamu guy was 6-4 and didn't even notice Harris was trying to jam him.
It was pretty funny actually
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Old 09-02-2014, 06:53 AM   #57
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Thumbs up Re: The Demise of the 3-4

I saw a bunch of dazed and confused faces on the field Thursday. They're all young. Put them in a defense that they know how to execute and can be taught without a total learning overhaul - or it's going to be a very long season.

Put the blame for this loss on the coaches for not having our guys ready and in the best position to make the plays (hardly ever).

Other than that, the offense looked alright.

The season is early...

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Old 09-02-2014, 08:48 AM   #58
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Default Re: The Demise of the 3-4

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Originally Posted by U-S-C till i D-I-E View Post
It's been proven time and time again, you have to have the right players to run a 3-4 or it doesn't work. Some people are bashing the players and recruiting, and don't get me wrong, the players played a big role in getting killed the other night. But even in the NFL, where every player is talented, personnel adjustments have to be made to run a 3-4. They don't just show up for training camp and say, hey let's run a 3-4 with these guys. For the coaching staff to look at our defense, and know we are not built for a 3-4 and decide to run it anyway is a terrible coaching decision. I am far from being a defensive guru and I could tell you we aren't built to run a 3-4. I guess if they stick with it over time we will get better. But until you have the right players it will be an uphill battle. Yes, the players tackled like creampuffs and that should be corrected, but the scheme is the #1 problem.

I'm not sure exactly why they switched from the 4-3, but its hard for me to believe that Surratt, the Dixon boys, and English can't make a decent front four. I'm not saying great, but decent or good, which is way better than what we had on Thursday.
That is a good post. If the coaches want to run a 3-4 when we don't have a 3-4 team then shame on them! I am not a defensive mastermind, either, but I think we do have four decent players to stick on the D-line. Of course, I am also biased because I have never liked 3-4 defenses.
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Old 09-02-2014, 09:01 AM   #59
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Default Re: The Demise of the 3-4

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After listening to Spurrier post game I got the impression we won't see
the D use the 3-4 anymore. Reminds me of those deer whistles you used to see on motorcycles and cars a few years back. The whistles sold well but
the deer couldn't hear them so the whistles are all gone now. Great idea though...........in theory. I wonder if Charlie Strong may have invented the 3-4 and the deer whistle.
I'm confused, on 8/24 you started a thread http://www.cockytalk.com/showthread.php?t=209251 claiming the 3-4 was a new evolution in football (even though it's been in use for 40+ years), now you're comparing it to deer whistles.

Have you been playing Madden too much?
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:52 AM   #60
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Default Re: The Demise of the 3-4

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I'm confused, on 8/24 you started a thread http://www.cockytalk.com/showthread.php?t=209251 claiming the 3-4 was a new evolution in football (even though it's been in use for 40+ years), now you're comparing it to deer whistles.

Have you been playing Madden too much?
I was basing my present comments about the demise of the 3-4 on Spurrier's body language, facial expression and voice when he asked the media post game about what they thought about the 3-4. I truly got the impression he wanted to scrap the 3-4 entirely.

Did Spurrier feel the 3-4 put the game momentum in TAMU's favor early and demoralized a young defense? Dunno.
I do know we didn't burn the house down last year on game one either.
I'm really surprised how well UGA and TAMU played game one. Clemson had new faces on D too.

It would be tough to keep a season long pace like UGA and TAMU showed in game one. Can you play that well all the time even as other teams get settled in and gain identity?
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