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Old 09-02-2014, 05:12 PM   #21
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

Our young guys like BAW, Larenz, and Walton DO have talent. Thats why they are on the field. The issue is that they aren't good football players yet. You need a good year of playing in college to get up to speed. Players like Mason Harris and Darius English don't have any talent. Thats why we moved to a 3-4 to get them off the field, and let our young linebackers on the field.
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:14 PM   #22
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

Sorry, but talent played a huge factor.
Their Oline was WAY better than our Dline...their WRs manhandled our DBs.

Not saying coaching wasn't an issue, it was...but you also have to admit, TAMU just had better athletes at certain positions. Part of that goes simply to where they are...when you have the state of Texas to draw talent, it isn't hard to find.

Put it this way...3-star guys in Texas would probably be four and five star here in Carolina, with the exception of a Gilmore, Lattimore or Clowney.
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:16 PM   #23
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

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Originally Posted by USC843 View Post
Our young guys like BAW, Larenz, and Walton DO have talent. Thats why they are on the field. The issue is that they aren't good football players yet. You need a good year of playing in college to get up to speed. Players like Mason Harris and Darius English don't have any talent. Thats why we moved to a 3-4 to get them off the field, and let our young linebackers on the field.
So why was Mason Harris on the field in a 3-4?

Again, goes back to personnel. Why put a 235 pound speed rusher in on a 3-4 line package...not his forte or what he is trained to to. Mason is not going to eat blockers to allow LBs to fly freely...Harris is going to go after the QB. Again, poor decision by our coaches putting players in a position to fail.

Same with English...he is not a 3-4 end...he is a 4-3 containment guy like Devin Taylor. We have speed rush ends...LET THEM RUSH OUT OF A 4-2!!!
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:23 PM   #24
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

Ok I am soooo tired of hearing this no talent crap. Their receiving corp was much more physical then our DBs sure, but that very well could be coaching and not talent. Heck their WRs are bigger than just about every team's DBs in the SEC. Our line did not get pressure as much as last years team. I will give you that but after re-watching the game I am convinced this was numbers and a scheming issue more than anything. If it were a talent issue we would not have gone 11-3 the last three years. GA and FL out recruit us every year but we have managed to beat them.

I will say this as well. You should be ashamed of yourself for constantly degrading our players. Do you not know they read these sites? If you think you can do better, we still have a walk on process, or if you are too old for that, I am sure your coaching record can land you Steve's job. Team's have bad games. We just had one. Get over it.

The only place I think we need to recruit better is on this forum.

This may be a rebuilding year and it may not be , only time will tell. But if we turn it around I hope certain individuals will come on this board and publicly apologize to all the "no talent" players we have on this team.
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:24 PM   #25
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

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So why was Mason Harris on the field in a 3-4?

Again, goes back to personnel. Why put a 235 pound speed rusher in on a 3-4 line package...not his forte or what he is trained to to. Mason is not going to eat blockers to allow LBs to fly freely...Harris is going to go after the QB. Again, poor decision by our coaches putting players in a position to fail.

Same with English...he is not a 3-4 end...he is a 4-3 containment guy like Devin Taylor. We have speed rush ends...LET THEM RUSH OUT OF A 4-2!!!
Maybe, just maybe we lack talent at coaching sometimes and at certain positions. Surely Whammy has coached enough football to realize that we don't have the horses up front nor at LB to run a traditional 3-4. We have a speedy, finesse type group and needed a more physical group to run this scheme and especially in the match up vs A&M. I honestly can see playing the DBs off more to allow them a little more time to catch up to the speed of the game but eventually they have to play FB. We saw UGA do it as another poster mentioned, although we aren't quite ready to man up and try to out physical big quick strong WRs like that. The whole thing is really a mess when you start breaking down all the issues. Gives me even more concern for this week's game and especially the one after. We could help several QBs and RBs have career games.....
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:27 PM   #26
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

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Sorry, but talent played a huge factor.
Their Oline was WAY better than our Dline...their WRs manhandled our DBs.

Not saying coaching wasn't an issue, it was...but you also have to admit, TAMU just had better athletes at certain positions. Part of that goes simply to where they are...when you have the state of Texas to draw talent, it isn't hard to find.

Put it this way...3-star guys in Texas would probably be four and five star here in Carolina, with the exception of a Gilmore, Lattimore or Clowney.
Our DB's just weren't ready to play, they have a ton of talent/potential but it's going to take time to get there.

And that last part is false. The guys that do the ratings, do them for everybody the same way. 3 star guys are 3 star guys for a reason. You can't say that 3 star guys from Texas would be 4 stars in SC. The reason Texas seems better is because there are just so many more high schools in the state of Texas than there are in SC. There are 6.8 million people living in the DFW area alone. SC as a state has under 5 million. So of course they are going to put up more players. It's simple math.

We have talent, right now we just don't have the impact players needed. People are going to have to step up. That's all there is to it. IMO
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:28 PM   #27
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

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True!!! And Lawing isn't here to coach them up.
Lawing being here or being in Florida has nothing to do with it.

Quite frankly, it's getting old hearing the whining about Lawing not being here. If you look back, our DL that was coached by him was curbstomped on numerous occasions.

TAMU scored how many against Bama last year? 42?
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:29 PM   #28
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

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So why was Mason Harris on the field in a 3-4?

Again, goes back to personnel. Why put a 235 pound speed rusher in on a 3-4 line package...not his forte or what he is trained to to. Mason is not going to eat blockers to allow LBs to fly freely...Harris is going to go after the QB. Again, poor decision by our coaches putting players in a position to fail.

Same with English...he is not a 3-4 end...he is a 4-3 containment guy like Devin Taylor. We have speed rush ends...LET THEM RUSH OUT OF A 4-2!!!
I have been thinking this all along! We've been recruiting to one scheme and all of a sudden we go away from that scheme just because we lack depth on the back end and have a surplus of depth at linebacker.

I can understand wanting to help out the young secondary in coverage but giving up the pass rush doesn't help either.
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:30 PM   #29
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

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Ok I am soooo tired of hearing this no talent crap. Their receiving corp was much more physical then our DBs sure, but that very well could be coaching and not talent. Heck their WRs are bigger than just about every team's DBs in the SEC. Our line did not get pressure as much as last years team. I will give you that but after re-watching the game I am convinced this was numbers and a scheming issue more than anything. If it were a talent issue we would not have gone 11-3 the last three years. GA and FL out recruit us every year but we have managed to beat them.

I will say this as well. You should be ashamed of yourself for constantly degrading our players. Do you not know they read these sites? If you think you can do better, we still have a walk on process, or if you are too old for that, I am sure your coaching record can land you Steve's job. Team's have bad games. We just had one. Get over it.

The only place I think we need to recruit better is on this forum.

This may be a rebuilding year and it may not be , only time will tell. But if we turn it around I hope certain individuals will come on this board and publicly apologize to all the "no talent" players we have on this team.

When you blitz 6 or 7 defenders and don't even make the QB move off his spot, there isn't anything you can do scheme wise to change that.

And you can't compare our previous teams to this one. Every team is different year in and year out.

Its almost like us making fun of UT fans for living in the past.
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:32 PM   #30
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

Blitzing from 6 yards away against a team that throws in less than 5 seconds is not a blitz.
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:33 PM   #31
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

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Ok I am soooo tired of hearing this no talent crap. Their receiving corp was much more physical then our DBs sure, but that very well could be coaching and not talent. Heck their WRs are bigger than just about every team's DBs in the SEC. Our line did not get pressure as much as last years team. I will give you that but after re-watching the game I am convinced this was numbers and a scheming issue more than anything. If it were a talent issue we would not have gone 11-3 the last three years. GA and FL out recruit us every year but we have managed to beat them.

I will say this as well. You should be ashamed of yourself for constantly degrading our players. Do you not know they read these sites? If you think you can do better, we still have a walk on process, or if you are too old for that, I am sure your coaching record can land you Steve's job. Team's have bad games. We just had one. Get over it.

The only place I think we need to recruit better is on this forum.

This may be a rebuilding year and it may not be , only time will tell. But if we turn it around I hope certain individuals will come on this board and publicly apologize to all the "no talent" players we have on this team.
Go back and look at all the players on those teams we no longer have, unfortunately our recruiting the past 2 years has not been as good as it was during the years we built those teams that went 11-2. Was it all an issue of talent? No, but we matched up really poorly with A&M at certain key positions. Only so far a scheme will take you when your db is 5'9" and most of their receivers are 6'5"

As for the other teams that have out recruited us that we still beat listen to Spurrier even he admitted today that we've gotten a lot of really good breaks and gotten away with playing poorly at times and yet still come away with the W. Jimmies and Joes play more a factor than you might think.
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:36 PM   #32
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

Also I will say that I think we got be by a gimmick offense that exposes conditioning and lack of experience. Count the number of missed tackles in the game. That is fundamental defensive coaching and can be fixed. We had a lot of 4 star guys out their wiffing at tackles as well. I prefer these guys than the 2 star wiffers that we had in the 90s.
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:37 PM   #33
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

not many SEC teams have 6'2 210 pound dbs. That argument does not hold water.
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:40 PM   #34
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

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Also I will say that I think we got be by a gimmick offense that exposes conditioning and lack of experience. Count the number of missed tackles in the game. That is fundamental defensive coaching and can be fixed. We had a lot of 4 star guys out their wiffing at tackles as well. I prefer these guys than the 2 star wiffers that we had in the 90s.
True, but sometimes it's just a case of their guy being better than yours, look at someone like Lattimore or Gurley, some pretty talented players tried to tackle both of them quite a few times and they've broken many a tackle and even carried 2-3 guys with them. I don't think anyone is saying were awful and have no talent but we were certainly outgunned this past Thursday and yes cut out a few of the mistakes and we still would have a had shot to win which is still remarkable considering our talent level even 10 years ago.
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:41 PM   #35
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

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not many SEC teams have 6'2 210 pound dbs. That argument does not hold water.
Not many of them are starting true freshmen either.
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:44 PM   #36
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

I will give you that but that agrees with the fact that this may be experience and coaching issue, not a talent issue.
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:47 PM   #37
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

Some of you confuse talent with skill. Talent you can not teach, skill you can. Our DB's are not as deficient in talent as they were in skill. You can attribute that to coaching. Talent doesn't create 10 yards of separation, it gives you an ability the defender does not have. Skill creates 10 yards of separation. Every A&M receiver was able to find 10 yards in separation. Call it how you will, I'll call poor coaching.
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:50 PM   #38
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

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Some of you confuse talent with skill. Talent you can not teach, skill you can. Our DB's are not as deficient in talent as they were in skill. You can attribute that to coaching. Talent doesn't create 10 yards of separation, it gives you an ability the defender does not have. Skill creates 10 yards of separation. Every A&M receiver was able to find 10 yards in separation. Call it how you will, I'll call poor coaching.
I agree with this! and I think the season will prove this out.

if we eliminate just half of the arm tackles from Thursday night we would have a much different result. We may have still lost but it would have been much more competitive.
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Old 09-02-2014, 06:22 PM   #39
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

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Our young guys like BAW, Larenz, and Walton DO have talent. Thats why they are on the field. The issue is that they aren't good football players yet. You need a good year of playing in college to get up to speed. Players like Mason Harris and Darius English don't have any talent. Thats why we moved to a 3-4 to get them off the field, and let our young linebackers on the field.
Running all those different defenses confused our LBs and safeties.They were either out of place or reacting slowly. The poor tackling by the whole defense was because we need to be full go in practice. Whenever you have that many missed tackles your timing must be off (You need to practice like you play). English and Harris do have talent but not when you set them up to fail.Three down lineman is a bad idea for this team. 3 4 ends have different responsibilities than 4 3 ends. Their biggest asset is their speed not trying to bull rushing OTs so that LBs can make a play. Our CBs were just out matched and targeted frequently mostly because of their experience.

Credit must be given to A&M they had a great game plan, impressive OL and WR, and a QB with an extremely quick release. The game hurt but the lessons learned with very valuable and might help this program take steps to the next level.
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Old 09-02-2014, 06:33 PM   #40
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

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Ok I am soooo tired of hearing this no talent crap. Their receiving corp was much more physical then our DBs sure, but that very well could be coaching and not talent. Heck their WRs are bigger than just about every team's DBs in the SEC. Our line did not get pressure as much as last years team. I will give you that but after re-watching the game I am convinced this was numbers and a scheming issue more than anything. If it were a talent issue we would not have gone 11-3 the last three years. GA and FL out recruit us every year but we have managed to beat them.

I will say this as well. You should be ashamed of yourself for constantly degrading our players. Do you not know they read these sites? If you think you can do better, we still have a walk on process, or if you are too old for that, I am sure your coaching record can land you Steve's job. Team's have bad games. We just had one. Get over it.

The only place I think we need to recruit better is on this forum.

This may be a rebuilding year and it may not be , only time will tell. But if we turn it around I hope certain individuals will come on this board and publicly apologize to all the "no talent" players we have on this team.
Boo freaking hoo. Man up. No one said our players had NO talent. They said our talent isn't good enough right now. Which is obvious to everyone who watched that game Thursday. So, so what if people are saying it? If the truth upsets you, don't read here.

We're not going to pretend like everything is as it should be right now so that you won't go into a tizzy. If the players have their feelings hurt THAN GOOD, because it will help toughen them up. If they are going whine about it like you than we are REAL trouble and need to get new players because they don't have the fortitude to face their failures head on.
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