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Old 09-03-2014, 12:43 AM   #81
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

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Originally Posted by conwaycock2 View Post
Ward for the 1st time ever implemented the 3-4 & did so for a very good reason even though we really don't have the personnel to run it. Why do you suppose he went away from what has been very successful in the past? You think he did that for grins? He did so because he felt the only way he was going to be able to get consistent pressure was going to be by bringing a LB. It's no secret, Ward will tell you straight out that's why he felt forced to make that move. He has only been partially correct to this point. He's not getting pressure from the DL nor the LB's.

As soon as he gets some horses back in the stable I will absolutely guarantee you he will go back to a 4-3 just like he's always done.
Conway, no disrespect meant by this because I love the area you are from :), but I am still not sold on Ward as a DC. This same guy who thought we did not have the personnel to run the 4-3 also said before last Thurs. that our guys were ready, which by any judge of game was absolutely not true. I do not expect us to beat the powerhouses of our conference this year, but a year or two from now the people on this board will be singing the praises of a bunch of them. As I have stated many times in this thread, go count the arm tackles. That is a basic coaching technique. If we make half of those, the game is much closer. Also look at LB gap assignments. This is basic X's and O's not Jimmie and Joes.
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:44 AM   #82
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

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Our terrible defensive performance last week was a combination of 3 things:

1.) Young guys in the secondary and linebackers who are struggling with the scheme. You could see they were unsure who they were suppose to cover. To much thinking, not enough acting, poor tackling didn't help, but tackling a guy for a 10 yard gain every play would not have helped. They were wide open virtually every play.

2.) Running up against a very good offense right out of the gate. You don't have time to think against good teams like A&M. This was a nightmare matchup for this defense.

3.) Very poor job of preparation on the part of our defensive coaches. They acted like they had never seen this offense before. No attempt to change scheme, no idea how to slow down that offense.
I agree totally with you.
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Old 09-03-2014, 09:04 AM   #83
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

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Originally Posted by gromweat View Post
Conway, no disrespect meant by this because I love the area you are from :), but I am still not sold on Ward as a DC. This same guy who thought we did not have the personnel to run the 4-3 also said before last Thurs. that our guys were ready, which by any judge of game was absolutely not true. I do not expect us to beat the powerhouses of our conference this year, but a year or two from now the people on this board will be singing the praises of a bunch of them. As I have stated many times in this thread, go count the arm tackles. That is a basic coaching technique. If we make half of those, the game is much closer. Also look at LB gap assignments. This is basic X's and O's not Jimmie and Joes.
It's all good. And we're likely not as far apart as it may seem. USC, I think, has some good talent in the secondary with the young guys but right now they are undersized, and trying to learn on the fly. Walton, Moore, & Diggs are all still young, have some talent & will get better. There are some younger DT's that would seem to have potential so maybe they develop, maybe not. Where we are absolutely hurting is at DE. Show me one guy at that position that has the size & speed combination to really be a difference maker.

At QB we have Thompson & nobody who has proven anything. Our OL is chock full of upperclassmen & couldn't budge what is presumed to be a mediocre defense. I seriously don't have any idea what the problem is there but I absolutely believe the players there are very capable. TE we gave great talent. RB is decent with Davis out.

Back to our DB's. Where is all the talent if Williams has to move from his natural position to play another position? If we're so talented, how does a 160 lb CB come in this summer & earn a starting position? How does Lammons come in much later than even Harris & play substantial minutes in the opener? On a team loaded with talent those guys would have been handled much differently & not thrown to the wolves right from the get go.

No argument from me the entire staff did a very poor job of preparing this team. Very poor from the head man on down. With the JUCO's we're bring in 2015 should look like a very different defense with major talent upgrades. If these guys all get in & we struggle next year then some serious questions about coaching and recruiting will need to be answered. But right now all the pieces are not there imo. Because of recruiting misses, academic casualties, etc we are just in a bad spot. The defense will get better but not to the level of prior years. I'd be very surprised if we don't see at least a couple more really bad performances.

A&M's offense is light year's ahead of us. They put up 628 yards against Bama last year even in a loss.

Last edited by conwaycock2; 09-03-2014 at 09:17 AM.
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Old 09-03-2014, 10:24 AM   #84
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

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You seem to be saying that essentially the same coaching staff that won 33 games & lost 6 over the past 3 years has mysteriously forgotten how to coach. We have a severe lack of talent at several positions. Don't take my word for it, watch our DL & see if you see any consistent explosion. There's not a QB in this league who couldn't make the throws Hill made the other night. We have OK talent at LB but certainly not overwhelming. In the secondary we have some young talent that is very inexperienced forcing us to play our best guy out of position because that's the best option available right now. Why? We've got a bunch of DB's on the roster.

So my questions are simple? At what point in time did our coaches forget how to coach? And with all this talent why is USC forced to play 2 true freshmen who are clearly not physically ready at cb? We also may be replacing a OG & Center with two guys who have played very sparingly. If you have to ask why then you paid absolutely no attention to the game Thursday. It was ugly in there.
Yeah I am gonna say no on this. For instance I saw DT miss a bunch of easy throws that night. Go back and watch tape. Kenny put the ball right on for a lot of those tight WR screens and quick slants. It wasn't just the guys being wide assed open.
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Old 09-03-2014, 10:46 AM   #85
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

Let me break it down like this:

Not a talent issue to win 8-10 games...? No

Is it a talent issue if we want to win an SEC championship and get over that hump...? Yes it absolutely is. We are just not there talent wise
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Old 09-03-2014, 10:48 AM   #86
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

Those DEs don't pass the eyeball test to me. The tackles should be good enough, so it must be coaching. The secondary is full of green players and guys out of position. Its a lack of experienced talent at the right positions. The OL has plenty of talent they just don't seem to ever perform consistently. Just a poor effort all around and hope they can get it sorted.

You have to wait three or four games to really have an idea. Maybe A&M's OL is just that good and they will shread everyone. Maybe we have to stop playing two-hand touch in practice. Maybe clemson's defense is garbage and UGA won't rush for 600 yards on us.
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:21 AM   #87
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

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Originally Posted by gamecock88 View Post
Maybe, just maybe we lack talent at coaching sometimes and at certain positions. Surely Whammy has coached enough football to realize that we don't have the horses up front nor at LB to run a traditional 3-4. We have a speedy, finesse type group and needed a more physical group to run this scheme and especially in the match up vs A&M. I honestly can see playing the DBs off more to allow them a little more time to catch up to the speed of the game but eventually they have to play FB. We saw UGA do it as another poster mentioned, although we aren't quite ready to man up and try to out physical big quick strong WRs like that. The whole thing is really a mess when you start breaking down all the issues. Gives me even more concern for this week's game and especially the one after. We could help several QBs and RBs have career games.....

Nice post...Instead of horses I would go with MONSTERS

Fully agree however about the size and talent of the WR of TAM...they were men among boys
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:22 AM   #88
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

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So wait, first stars don't matter so long as we're winning. Then stars matter because we're blown completely out of a game. I get it now.

What took you so long!? ;-)
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:27 AM   #89
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

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Yeah I am gonna say no on this. For instance I saw DT miss a bunch of easy throws that night. Go back and watch tape. Kenny put the ball right on for a lot of those tight WR screens and quick slants. It wasn't just the guys being wide assed open.
Yeah, and I will have to say no. Your guys were wide assed open. DT made some bad ones but he made some beautiful ones too. Did Hill even throw past 15 yards? Product of the system.
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:35 AM   #90
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

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Yeah I am gonna say no on this. For instance I saw DT miss a bunch of easy throws that night. Go back and watch tape. Kenny put the ball right on for a lot of those tight WR screens and quick slants. It wasn't just the guys being wide assed open.
Yeah, unfortunately for us it mostly was. I wish it were not true & Kenny was just that good threading needles, etc. But the vast majority of time the A&M receivers were standing there wide open & to Kenny's credit he hit them. He also missed several guys wide damn open on some longer throws. He hit most all the short ones.

But if you want to believe USC played well at all, be my guest. We absolutely sucked out there with mass confusion, huge cushions, poor tackling, etc. A&M has a excellent offense, we made them & Hill look even better than they are by contesting about two passes the entire game. If you really think we provided legitimate opposition then you should be thinking NC, seriously. A&M will roll up big yards against a lot of people this year but it won't be nearly as easy as we made it for you. Congrats on the win, we were clearly outclassed for the beginning.
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:42 AM   #91
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

I know the coaches are working furiously to fix things on the defensive side but I doubt they are just whistling in the wind hoping for wholesale improvement. We're going to need to score a lot of points. Just curious to see if this affects our offensive game plan. Do you guys think we'll see a little more wide open, more attacking offensive philosophy?
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:49 AM   #92
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

There were a number of reasons we lost. Coaching was one. But IMO, you can primarily attribute the loss to inexperience. Proven air attack versus 3 new starters, including freshmen in the secondary is a recipe for disaster....
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:55 AM   #93
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

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Originally Posted by MrED View Post
I know the coaches are working furiously to fix things on the defensive side but I doubt they are just whistling in the wind hoping for wholesale improvement. We're going to need to score a lot of points. Just curious to see if this affects our offensive game plan. Do you guys think we'll see a little more wide open, more attacking offensive philosophy?
That would be the worst thing to do, need to line up in the I run and play action. Hold on to the ball and keep the clock moving. Basically help the D by keeping them off the field.
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Old 09-03-2014, 03:37 PM   #94
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

Stars??? That's just plain stupid. We have guys with lots of "stars" too, but it doesn't mean squat. I don't care how many damn stars a guy has, if he is 215 LB going against a 300 lb Guard followed by a 220 lb RB, he is going to get his lunch eaten. We recruit too many undersized guys to play in this league.
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Old 09-03-2014, 04:57 PM   #95
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

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Yeah I am gonna say no on this. For instance I saw DT miss a bunch of easy throws that night. Go back and watch tape. Kenny put the ball right on for a lot of those tight WR screens and quick slants. It wasn't just the guys being wide assed open.
To be honest, it's really easy to hit a receiver in the chest when you're basically playing 7 on 7. No pressure + DB's being 5 yards away = really simple completions.
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:06 PM   #96
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

It isn't simply that aTm is a world beater, although I do believe that they have a lot of athletes but still suck on defense.
It isn't that Ward got instantly stupid over the last year after 3 years of a pretty good defense, although I do believe that he was never as good a coordinator as his reputation.
It isn't that SOS doesn't run the "right" offense, although Coach has not a really powerful offense since he has been here.

Despite the fact that we have played only 1 game, what is painfully obvious is that this year's USC team would get its brains beat in by last years Gamecock squad. We are far weaker at DT, DE, DB, QB, and WR. The added experience in the OL, RB, and LB don't begin to compensate for this.

On defense, the DL looks like a bunch of back-ups forced into action. The issues should not shock - the reason that Ward is experimenting with the 3-4 is that he has extremely weak DTs and DEs, and he has few real DTs. aTm did not even have to worry about the blitz because rushing 5, 6, and a couple of times 7 did not matter hardly at all. Additionally, as far as the OL goes, we had more than a little trouble running against some teams last year with the same OL and RBs, but the inability of the OL to sustain blocks in the run and pass game was clouded by Connor Shaw's ability to convert 3rd downs with HIS feet. Personnel issues stemming from the inability to recruit SEC quality players in any kind of quantity from outside of SC has placed our guys in a position to struggle whenever quality HS talent at certain positions is down. That reality has been further exacerbated by the fact that we had potential recruiting upgrades this year not qualify.

I hope that I'm just plain wrong, but I saw way too much time to throw and open receivers running around in scrimmages this preseason to not have had any concerns with us, in effect, playing replacement football.
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:39 PM   #97
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

It's a lot of things, not just talent. I think the talent is there, cause they wouldn't be playing if it wasn't. I just think a lot of first timers playing in an environment like that can overwhelm you. Even if it was at home nerves can still get the best of you. I didn't realize how young of a team we had until I watched the game. I wouldn't blame coaching either cause Spurrier thought everything was ok. Sometimes you don't know until you play the game.
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:45 PM   #98
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Default Not a talent issue

Recruit better stars, get better results.

Do you know how many times I've heard "If Spurrier had Sabans recruits, he would be unstoppable"

You don't see teams that are loaded with 2 & 3 stars win championships.

Spurrier publicly stated that we don't have many stars. Just one pre-season All Americans. Well really, I wonder why??

No matter how some fans try and spin it, what matters is highly recruited talent and debt. Something we do not have.
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:47 PM   #99
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

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Recruit better stars get better results.

You don't see teams that are loaded with 2 & 3 stars win championships.

Even Spurrier said we don't have any All
Americans. Well really, I wonder why??

No matter how some fans try and spin it, what matters is highly recruited talent and debt. Something we do not have.
Yep. That's why Bama is good every single year. They recruit 4 & 5 stars like it's nothing. So far our 2015 class is finally turning the corner on where we need to be in recruiting. Hopefully it stays that way and keeps building.
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:50 PM   #100
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Default Re: Not a talent issue

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Yep. That's why Bama is good every single year. They recruit 4 & 5 stars like it's nothing. So far our 2015 class is finally turning the corner on where we need to be in recruiting. Hopefully it stays that way and keeps building.
I think it is because they have good coaching and a good system. Look at Florida, They recruit pretty much as good as Alabama does every year but they won 4 games last year.

Also they play a Tennessee team that has been down lately every year. The play one decent FBS out-of-conference game.
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