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Old 09-02-2014, 09:23 PM   #41
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Default Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not

[QUOTis what I was thinking todat=CoverTwo;4247399]I would keep it but tweak the personnel:

DE - Lamin
NT - Dukes or Dixon Jr. (both are in the 320 - 330 range) or Surratt....
DE - Griffin

LB - English
LB - Moore
LB - Walton
LB - BAW

DB - Harris
DB - Williams
DB - Elder
DB - Lammons


That defensive front is BIG and very good talent wise. Put your pass rushers (English - BAW) on the edge.[/quote]

That is what I was thinking about today. We have the talent...it's up to the coaches to maximize it.
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:20 AM   #42
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Default Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoverTwo View Post
I would keep it but tweak the personnel:

DE - Lamin
NT - Dukes or Dixon Jr. (both are in the 320 - 330 range)
DE - Griffin

LB - English
LB - Moore
LB - Walton
LB - BAW

DB - Harris
DB - Williams
DB - Elder
DB - Lammons


That defensive front is BIG and very good talent wise. Put your pass rushers (English - BAW) on the edge.
since you brought it up.....Lamin isn't nearly quick enough to play DE. Green would probably be better there. Who's going to teach English how to play LB....he's been here a few years and he hasn't learned to play DE yet. Put Holloman as the 4th LB......
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:18 AM   #43
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Default Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not

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Originally Posted by ReadR00ster View Post
No defense works if you don't have players that can play it. They didn't "nickel and dime" us to death because we played the wrong defensive strategy. Our defense is bad because they are a bunch of newbs out there with bad instincts and bad tackling and they haven't gelled as a unit. It does not matter one iota where our DBs line up because they can not cover receivers as talented and as athletic as A&M's with their QB making perfect passes.

Stop guessing at what defense is going to work. It's our coaches job to try to figure it out.
Evidently the people guessing got a lot of help from the coaches' failure to make adjustments during the game and/or prepare them for the game. Mind you, if tackling was the only D problem last Thursday, we'd have had a shot at a W. What explained the cleanly caught 10 to 15 yard passes and / or runs? What would you say about the prevent and don't break scheme which not only kept us from winning but also demoralized the players.
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:29 AM   #44
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Default Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not

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Originally Posted by 75CarolinaFan View Post
I don't care what we run. But whatever we run, be aggressive. We are obviously not good enough to play straight up. We're going to have to blitz but we are also going to have to play tighter in coverage. We will get burned, but we will also cause more mistakes. 99 plays with 0 turnovers is pathetic. Playing safe causes confusion and hesitation which leads to poor tackling. It gave A&M players room in space which is exactly what their offense wants.

Langston Moore in the postgame made a great point. Great defenses, even when they make mistakes, play 100 mph. The players need to make a decision and go with it. If you get burned you learn from it later. But the hesitation and soft coverage is a recipe for more of what A&M gave us.

I was completely shocked that we continued to play such soft coverage for the entire game. We've got an offense that can keep up if the defense can get just a few stops. Defense does not have to be as great as it was a few years back for us to win games.
that's the point, players can't play fast if they are having to think about their responsibility depending on the defense called on that play.....especially having to play against an up tempo team with great players.....
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:00 AM   #45
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Default Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not

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Originally Posted by Latti View Post
It's not the scheme people.
I'm sure it's not 5 guys on the line and 15 yards behind them are the next 5 followed by a safety who is prepared for the fake punt at all times either.
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:02 AM   #46
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Default Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not

Quote:
Originally Posted by Order 66 View Post
[QUOTis what I was thinking todat=CoverTwo;4247399]I would keep it but tweak the personnel:

DE - Lamin
NT - Dukes or Dixon Jr. (both are in the 320 - 330 range) or Surratt....
DE - Griffin

LB - English
LB - Moore
LB - Walton
LB - BAW

DB - Harris
DB - Williams
DB - Elder
DB - Lammons


That defensive front is BIG and very good talent wise. Put your pass rushers (English - BAW) on the edge.
That is what I was thinking about today. We have the talent...it's up to the coaches to maximize it.[/quote]

You will get flamed for having a good idea of how to move around our players it is not our style apparently to do that.
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Old 09-03-2014, 06:01 AM   #47
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Default Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not

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Originally Posted by CockyLifer View Post
I'm sure it's not 5 guys on the line and 15 yards behind them are the next 5 followed by a safety who is prepared for the fake punt at all times either.

I meant the 3-4 in general. I agree the soft coverage needs to go. You give up the 5-7 yard route every play.
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Old 09-03-2014, 07:42 AM   #48
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Default Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not

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Originally Posted by b381l View Post
since you brought it up.....Lamin isn't nearly quick enough to play DE. Green would probably be better there. Who's going to teach English how to play LB....he's been here a few years and he hasn't learned to play DE yet. Put Holloman as the 4th LB......
It's just a pass rush lineup. Not a every down type deal.
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:49 AM   #49
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Default Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not

Not. It complicates the system too much and takes away practice reps. They can stand-up a DE once in a while and move him back a yard ala Melvin and Taylor in the past, but he needs to be assignment saavy and have a nose for the ball as those 2 were. Clowney was never much of a stand-up guy, but he was such a threat on backside pursuit and inside moves backing him off a yard made no sense.
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:07 PM   #50
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Default Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not

It's scheme and talent. There not world beaters, but when A&M throws and throws for 5 to 15 yard chunks and the closest defender is over 5 yards away it's scheme. I don't care if your position is lb or cb, if you line up over 10 yards off the ball I'm calling you a safety. We consistently ran 4 and 5 safety thursday.
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:15 PM   #51
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Default Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not

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Originally Posted by purebredcock View Post
It's scheme and talent. There not world beaters, but when A&M throws and throws for 5 to 15 yard chunks and the closest defender is over 5 yards away it's scheme. I don't care if your position is lb or cb, if you line up over 10 yards off the ball I'm calling you a safety. We consistently ran 4 and 5 safety thursday.
Did you see what happened when we tried to play some press?

Our guys whiffed at the LOS.

Whiffed.
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Old 09-03-2014, 03:28 PM   #52
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Default Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not

We've got to run more man coverage and prevent the quick routes. We also need more beef up front to tie up the Oline in order to give the blitz a chance to work. When the opponents can one-on-one block everybody and then pick up the blitz, we don't have a chance. We need make the QB hold the ball longer with man coverage on the short routes and put more pressure on him to force mistakes and get a sack now and then.
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Old 09-03-2014, 03:45 PM   #53
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Default Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoverTwo View Post
Did you see what happened when we tried to play some press?

Our guys whiffed at the LOS.

Whiffed.

Yeah, it doesn't matter a lot what the scheme is when the execution is that poor. The DB's couldn't jam, cover or tackle and the DL were like blocker magnets. LBs didn't do anything either.
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:52 PM   #54
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Default Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not

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Originally Posted by CoverTwo View Post
Did you see what happened when we tried to play some press?

Our guys whiffed at the LOS.

Whiffed.
We very rarely press. We show press, sometimes hand check, but most times never initiate any contact.
To answer your question yes I did see us actually press our DBs and it was one of the only successful plays defensively. Iirc it put them in a 3rd and over 10, then we went back to cover 5 and they converted
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:55 PM   #55
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Default Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not

They got rid of the ball so stinking fast we could of blitzed the student section and he'd got the ball off bc from the Los to 10 yards deep is undefended and sumlins early game plan was for hill to get rid of it fast. Easy to do when your receivers start the play open.
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Old 09-04-2014, 02:14 AM   #56
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Default Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not

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Originally Posted by CoverTwo View Post
Did you see what happened when we tried to play some press?

Our guys whiffed at the LOS.

Whiffed.
yep....we can run press against our guys in practice because they are small.....but it's not going to work against big WR.....
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Old 09-04-2014, 05:46 AM   #57
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Default Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not

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Originally Posted by CockOla View Post
Evidently the people guessing got a lot of help from the coaches' failure to make adjustments during the game and/or prepare them for the game. Mind you, if tackling was the only D problem last Thursday, we'd have had a shot at a W. What explained the cleanly caught 10 to 15 yard passes and / or runs? What would you say about the prevent and don't break scheme which not only kept us from winning but also demoralized the players.
Stop with the prevent defense rhetoric nonsense. It's not prevent defense. Yes, we played a lot of soft zone. We did the same under Ellis Johnson, and we did the same with Charlie Strong. They are still supposed to hit the receiver when the ball gets there, and if they throw behind the line of scrimage they are still supposed to tackle them for no more than a short a gain. It's a good defensive strategy if you can execute it. It's better than what you suggest. The players at least can face the action this way as opposed to running one way and having to look the other way in order to see the ball. That's too advanced for CBs right now. If they are catching 10 to 15 yard passes on them, obviously they can't cover even when they are near a WR, because they aren't lining up that far off.
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Old 09-04-2014, 10:03 AM   #58
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Default Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not

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Stop with the prevent defense rhetoric nonsense. It's not prevent defense. Yes, we played a lot of soft zone. We did the same under Ellis Johnson, and we did the same with Charlie Strong. They are still supposed to hit the receiver when the ball gets there, and if they throw behind the line of scrimage they are still supposed to tackle them for no more than a short a gain. It's a good defensive strategy if you can execute it. It's better than what you suggest. The players at least can face the action this way as opposed to running one way and having to look the other way in order to see the ball. That's too advanced for CBs right now. If they are catching 10 to 15 yard passes on them, obviously they can't cover even when they are near a WR, because they aren't lining up that far off.
You said stop calling it prevent and then explained away what essentially is our prevent defense to a tee, the only thing is you don't call it a prevent.

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Old 09-04-2014, 12:42 PM   #59
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Default Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not

It could be worse.

At least they didn't play Benny Hill music in the background during the game highlights.



Hopefully, things will go better for us next game and we won't have the urge to spaz so much.
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Old 09-04-2014, 05:25 PM   #60
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Default Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not

We had a lot of turnover on defense and the guys that did return had to learn a new system, plus it was the first game of the season. Of course they were going to look unprepared.

We need to lose the 3-4, don't have the personnel to run it and it is not effective against spread offenses. Alabama runs the 3-4, have been recruiting personnel to run it for years, and they have the best talent and coaching in the country - and they got torched by A & M's spread offense last year. We decided to run the 3-4 due to a lack of players on the D line, but we actually are very deep at tackle, we just lack at DEs. So we put in the 3-4 and then use two true DEs and only one DT - how does that help to cover up our weakness at DE? And we only use one DT when that is our deepest position??

The 4-2-5 is the best defense for the spread offense because it puts 5 DBs on the field at all times. Our returning players know the system, our coaches know the system, and all of our players were recruited to run it. If we had been practicing the 4-2-5, the new guys would have been ready to go the first week. This falls back on some poor coaching decisions and Spurrier is wasting no time in fixing it.
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