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Old 09-03-2014, 10:26 AM   #41
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Default Re: Why won't Spurrier implement the spread offense here?

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Originally Posted by Ph/JDCock View Post
High offensive numbers don't necessarily equate to wins. The coaching graveyard is littered with coaches who had a top-10 or -15 offense every year but left their defenses out to dry and had them gassed by the end of the third quarter. There is a synergy between offense and defense that we have hit on pretty well the past several years. Time of possession, third down conversion rates and rushing average all figure into how successful an offense is and how much of the collective weight of team success the unit is carrying. As good as our defense has been since 2010, some of the reason for their success is that they have been sitting on the sidelines while our offense was eating clock.
exactly ... im pretty sure Cal ran the most plays per game last year and won 1 or 2 games
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Old 09-03-2014, 10:28 AM   #42
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Default Re: Why won't Spurrier implement the spread offense here?

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Originally Posted by conwaycock2 View Post
Good point. But we weren't doing that before all the hurry up started either. 400 ypg I would take right now & that is pretty decent. Unless our defense comes together, that won't be enough against multiple teams we have yet to play.
Your right, the only way I see this team really being succesful is getting in the I, running the ball and play action keeping the ball for 35-40 minutes a game to keep or defense off the field.
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Old 09-03-2014, 10:44 AM   #43
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Default Re: Why won't Spurrier implement the spread offense here?

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Originally Posted by PageUSC View Post
We do. We're in a spread formation about 90% of the time. 3-4 WRs, TE, RB.

I'm assuming you're asking why we don't run an up tempo style offense
I'm sure Spurrier has considered it.

We are built more for a medium pace, where Dylan can read the defense a bit before going. Our O-line isn't the type to run rapid plays. At least, they don't seem like it to me.

I agree that uptempo is most effective in general if you are as athletic as the other team. I think there's more of an advantage in not reading the defense and just selecting a play based on the defensive personnel that is out there. If the safeties don't have time to think, they are just gonna react to what they see. This gives the advantage to the side that knows the play. If you give ball hawks and blitzers time to make a prediction, you open yourself up to more problems and ruin the element of surprise.

Spurrier tries to force defenders into tough spots by play design and the sequence in which he rolls them out, but then the offensive players must sell it perfectly. This kind of planned deception is easier in practice and really difficult on the road. It seems like maybe A&M predicted what we were trying to run pretty well. It might work with a super disciplined heady group on our side of the ball, but we aren't guaranteed that year in and out.

In summary, I'm all for what SOS is doing, but it requires many different things to click to be deceptive. It has worked great against some teams, and others has fallen a bit flat. Whereas, the hurry up seems inherently deceptive, you need the right players (and coach) to handle the pace.
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Old 09-03-2014, 10:45 AM   #44
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Default Re: Why won't Spurrier implement the spread offense here?

we should go option football, wing T, etc
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Old 09-03-2014, 10:50 AM   #45
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Default Re: Why won't Spurrier implement the spread offense here?

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Originally Posted by Spurticus View Post
I hope Steve Spurrier NEVER implements the "Spread" offense, and never
gives in to a bunch of knee jerk reaction fans who think the entire program
needs over hauling after one bad loss. Spurrier has coached against AND
BEATEN teams that use the "Spread / HUNH" offense.

Everyone wants to jump on what's "trendy" or fashionable because everyone
else is doing it, or they think we're going to get crushed in the wave of
those that are doing it. Y'all need to chill and let our coaches do what they
get paid to do, and that is run THEIR PROGRAM the way THEY WANT TO
RUN IT and make corrections / adjustments as needed.

33-6 in the last three years ....we lose one game and now everyone wants
coaches fired, and OH, BY THE WAY, "we need to do a complete overhaul of
our system, make our players learn it in a few weeks, and we'll be as good
as the rest of the teams that have decided to go with what's trending in
college football right now".
Wow, overreact much? I think it was a question of why won't he, not why won't he right now. Just for discussion purposes I hope and not really an expectation that we scrap the entire off season and change directions right now. Of all the time spent on this board you should expect some of the comments that come with a bad, very bad loss. Just hasn't happened in a while so the coach and system defenders get very touchy when it does. It's about as common as those who crown us or make bold predictions of post season awards, final rankings, and so forth after a good win. It's the nature of fans.
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Old 09-03-2014, 10:52 AM   #46
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Default Re: Why won't Spurrier implement the spread offense here?

I believe something got lost in the translation here. I don't believe the OP or anybody else said anything about a HU offense. I personally don't think it's anywhere close to the key to success. Methodically marching the ball down the field & scoring, rather than quick strikes would be my preference.

I just dumbfounded that anybody believes that a good offense somehow equates to having a bad defense or leaving them hung out to dry. Our defense, especially in the earlier years under Spurrier was plenty good to win numerous games but we couldn't do it because our offense just wasn't there. Those Big 8 teams that ran those HU offenses but played no defense eventually all got exposed. Those Alabama teams with very good offenses actually helped their already very good defenses & won multiple NC's.

A good offense doesn't mean your defense has to suck, far from it. Firing coaches would be a huge mistake at this point & would likely prolong the issues we face right now. Huge mistake, kill recruiting & I'd be shocked if Spurrier moved in that direction.
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:09 AM   #47
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Default Re: Why won't Spurrier implement the spread offense here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurticus View Post
I hope Steve Spurrier NEVER implements the "Spread" offense, and never
gives in to a bunch of knee jerk reaction fans who think the entire program
needs over hauling after one bad loss. Spurrier has coached against AND
BEATEN teams that use the "Spread / HUNH" offense.

Everyone wants to jump on what's "trendy" or fashionable because everyone
else is doing it, or they think we're going to get crushed in the wave of
those that are doing it. Y'all need to chill and let our coaches do what they
get paid to do, and that is run THEIR PROGRAM the way THEY WANT TO
RUN IT and make corrections / adjustments as needed.

33-6 in the last three years ....we lose one game and now everyone wants
coaches fired, and OH, BY THE WAY, "we need to do a complete overhaul of
our system, make our players learn it in a few weeks, and we'll be as good
as the rest of the teams that have decided to go with what's trending in
college football right now".
Trendy huh?

Answer this question for me. Is Steve Spurrier a better offensive coach than Gus Malzahn?

Yes or no. And if so, exactly what evidence do you have to show it? I mean based on the time Spurrier has been at Carolina.

Look, Malzahn and others use the hurry up for a reason. To tire the defense, make it hard for them to substitute, and not give them time to think. And sometimes it works really, really well.

Not all spread teams do this. Nevada under Ault was a ball control team, just like what Saban tries to do at Alabama, they just lined up in the pistol.

While it seems like most of these spread coaches seem to like the hurry up (for obvious reasons), it's not written into the dna of the offense.

Now I said earlier in this thread I think Air Raids, and Spreads are two different kinds of offense, at least classic Leach Air Raid compared to the variety of what I would actually call Spread offenses.

What puzzles me is why you think it is a gimmick (the Spread that is). Tell me exactly how it is a gimmick?

Here is the core of what I consider to be a Spread. The quarterback is every bit as much of an expected runner as a running back. This forces the defense to play 11 on 11. It is almost impossible to use double coverage in this situation, and for that and a couple of other reasons (roll outs, etc) you get much easier throws. Not to mention the "spread" the field and get guys open in space.

So how is it a gimmick? Explain that.

I want you to explain exactly how the pro set, or I, or any other formation where the qb takes the snap directly from center and drops into a pocket on passing plays is better theoretically (as much as football has theory).
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:10 AM   #48
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Default Re: Why won't Spurrier implement the spread offense here?

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Originally Posted by Evilchicken3 View Post
Kevin Sumlin, Gus Malzahn, Bobby Petrino, Chip Kelly use it, and the list goes on. Varieties such as the air raid, and pro-spread have proven to be very lethal to opposing defenses, so why won't Spurrier, the inventor of the FNG try and implement it? If Texas A&m can use it for evil purposes, why can't we? I'd love to see a flat out killer spread be used here.
Most of our plays over the last few years have come out of the shotgun and of all the teams in the sec, I think we were second in percentage of one on one tackles against our offense. That means that we got our players in one on one matchups in space. That makes us by definition a spread team, we just run hand offs for the most part and a pro style route tree. We aren't hung, we aren't option and we aren't air raid, but we are spread and gimmicky crap doesn't work against good teams unless they aren't fundamentally sound (us) or have a weakness in scheme (bama).
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:14 AM   #49
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Default Re: Why won't Spurrier implement the spread offense here?

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Originally Posted by sunbeam View Post
I have a personal definition of the spread. Basically the qb does not take snap directly from center, but it is a long snap. Additonally the qb is a designed runner.

Now even if I call it a spread, you can do it pass oriented like Clemson, or run like Malzahn, RichRod, or Nevada.

The Air Raid is often called a spread, and it does spread the field in a similar fashion. But the big difference to me is the qb really isn't a runner.

Though Sumlin and it looks like Holgorsen definitely seem to be adding qb runs to their spread versions. Sumlin rolled his qb out a lot, and he also ran a lot.

Maybe Halliday at Washington State is immobile, but Leach doesn't appear to be doing that. So maybe the Air Raid and Spread are converging.

I will say the line is kind of nebulous. The Chad seems to love to throw as much as Malzahn does to run.
You guys didn't take many snaps from center last year that I recall. Actually Clempscum does that more than you do.
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:16 AM   #50
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Default Re: Why won't Spurrier implement the spread offense here?

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Originally Posted by sunbeam View Post
Trendy huh?

Answer this question for me. Is Steve Spurrier a better offensive coach than Gus Malzahn?

Yes or no. And if so, exactly what evidence do you have to show it? I mean based on the time Spurrier has been at Carolina.

Look, Malzahn and others use the hurry up for a reason. To tire the defense, make it hard for them to substitute, and not give them time to think. And sometimes it works really, really well.

Not all spread teams do this. Nevada under Ault was a ball control team, just like what Saban tries to do at Alabama, they just lined up in the pistol.

While it seems like most of these spread coaches seem to like the hurry up (for obvious reasons), it's not written into the dna of the offense.

Now I said earlier in this thread I think Air Raids, and Spreads are two different kinds of offense, at least classic Leach Air Raid compared to the variety of what I would actually call Spread offenses.

What puzzles me is why you think it is a gimmick (the Spread that is). Tell me exactly how it is a gimmick?

Here is the core of what I consider to be a Spread. The quarterback is every bit as much of an expected runner as a running back. This forces the defense to play 11 on 11. It is almost impossible to use double coverage in this situation, and for that and a couple of other reasons (roll outs, etc) you get much easier throws. Not to mention the "spread" the field and get guys open in space.

So how is it a gimmick? Explain that.

I want you to explain exactly how the pro set, or I, or any other formation where the qb takes the snap directly from center and drops into a pocket on passing plays is better theoretically (as much as football has theory).
It's much better inside the five. Good example is last year, you guys were tackled behind the LOS near the end because your RB was taking the ball well behind the line. As opposed to a team in the I where the RB gets the ball much closer to the line in that situation. Also, much better clock killing from under center as again shown last year in the UGA/USC game.
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:23 AM   #51
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Default Re: Why won't Spurrier implement the spread offense here?

I'm a huge Spurrier fan, but I don't understand when he makes comments like he did in his presser yesterday, that you can't use four running backs in a game. Why not? We are not Georgia, but they did it the other night with impressive results. Just wish sometimes we would give it a shot.
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:29 AM   #52
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Default Re: Why won't Spurrier implement the spread offense here?

I thought we were using the spread.
We hardly take a snap from center and we spread the field.

Unless is the OP talking about using the hurry up spread like Oregon, Auburn and Clemson use where they snap the ball with 20 seconds to go on the play clock? In which case, with our Defensive situation, I'd say a big no to that.
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:37 AM   #53
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Default Re: Why won't Spurrier implement the spread offense here?

I want to see our offense be what it was against UCF in the second half last year. I still think that is the way to be the most successful this year.
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:46 AM   #54
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Default Re: Why won't Spurrier implement the spread offense here?

i think it should also be noted that their is a difference between running a hurry up offense as a scheme and running hurry up pace to establish a rhythm within the overall parameters and goals of your offense in fact many teams will quicken the pace of plays to keep defenses off balance .... hurry up offense all the time IMO is not the most successful or wise choice of schemes.... but using pace at times can be useful and even extremely effective when the game dictates
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:46 AM   #55
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Default Re: Why won't Spurrier implement the spread offense here?

got to run the ball and play great defense to win championships.

Our offense is fine.

We lose 1 game and we need to scrap and recreate everything.

CHill out.
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:50 AM   #56
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Default Re: Why won't Spurrier implement the spread offense here?

I honestly think our Offense will be fine as we go along...the big question is Defense. We don't need the spread/option because Thompson is not the right qb for it.
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:08 PM   #57
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Default Re: Why won't Spurrier implement the spread offense here?

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got to run the ball and play great defense to win championships.
Our offense is fine.
We lose 1 game and we need to scrap and recreate everything.

CHill out.
But we couldn't run the ball nor did we try very hard to do so. Hopefully you're right about the offense but that has yet to be determined. Spurrier didn't seem happy at all with the performance Thursday night. Hit a few deep balls, 1 or 2 after their defense broke down. That was basically it. The offense kept it from being a complete debacle on both sides of the ball so there is that. The defense speaks for itself.

Totally agree that you can't totally throw out what you worked on all year. That & firing coaches screams sheer panic. Things would likely go from bad to worse. Maybe going back to more 4-3 but only the coaches hopefully have any idea how much, if any, that would help.
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:13 PM   #58
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Default Re: Why won't Spurrier implement the spread offense here?

Dylan Thompson is a pro-style, stand-in-the-pocket QB. We can't run an option/spread/whatever with him. Also, I've said it 100 times, but the offense was not the problem last week.
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:31 PM   #59
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Default Re: Why won't Spurrier implement the spread offense here?

Is not some of this projecting our own porous defense onto the teams we play?

Are we not assuming they would play as badly as ours did against the Aggies?

A spread offense against a good defense is a quick 3-and-out most of the time, isn't it?

You can't assume our opponents defenses would play a hurry-up spread type offenses as softly as we did/do.

The long balls that DT threw last week would suck the life out of a team other than the Aggies.

One takeaway I had from the Bama/WVU game was that Saban said one of the reasons he went with LK was that not too many coaches outside of the NFL knew how to run the pro-style spread offense he does.

Winning with balance is what gets it done most of the time. I haven't seen too many other QBs who can throw the long ball like DT does and we should still try to leverage that.

You can lure defenses in close and throw the deep ball into single coverage just like was done last week. It's the opposite of spreading the defenses out, but we proved last week that it works. It just doesn't take nearly as much time off the clock that a dual-threat QB does.

We would have beat the Aggies in a close game last week if the lack of defense hadn't put us in a position where we had to score on every freaking possession.

We shouldn't be tied down to a single running back system if we have 3 good ones. Use the wishbone and I formations to confuse the defense the same way a zone read scheme would.

Luckily HBC sees the same thing we do, even on defense, and will get us headed back in the right direction very soon.
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:20 PM   #60
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Default Re: Why won't Spurrier implement the spread offense here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cockysousa View Post
Dylan Thompson is a pro-style, stand-in-the-pocket QB. We can't run an option/spread/whatever with him. Also, I've said it 100 times, but the offense was not the problem last week.

This this this!!! Why are we running the zone read with Dylan??? He is not Connor Shaw and no defense is going to be scared of him keeping the ball and running all over them. A&M keyed on the running back every time we ran the zone read because Dylan is nowhere near the threat Connor was. Where is the i formation and power football we saw at UCF last year?
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