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Old 09-02-2014, 11:38 AM   #61
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Default Re: Gamecock football Long Term Future and the SEC

Isn't our 2015 recruiting class ranked in the top 5?


Guys, it was one bad game. Jeesh.
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Old 09-02-2014, 03:21 PM   #62
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Default Re: Gamecock football Long Term Future and the SEC

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Originally Posted by Garnet Gamecock View Post
Okay, this is a pet peeve of mine.

South Carolina has its drawbacks but it has major positives when it comes to recruiting -- we simply don't present them properly.

I have lived in Texas for 52 of my 55 years and the other three I spent when I relocated our family to Columbia.

I spent 15 years running a college guidance consulting firm and took a great deal of interest in the "intangibles" that each college has to offer.

Looking at things from a Texas perspective, here are just a few...

1) Texas beaches suck -- big time. Sure, you can go to South Padre and get drunk and play in the waves a bit, but the water is clear as mud. If you go swimming in Corpus Christi you get covered in freaking tar balls that you have to wash off with this God-awful solvent that's probably carcinogenic.

As a contrast, Texas students need to see the contrast that Charleston, Hilton Head and Myrtle Beach offer, and they are reasonably close to Columbia. That's the part everyone misses about Texas -- any nice place you want to go is a hell of a long drive. (Except the Highland Lakes and Hill Country around Austin).

2) 99% of Texas is flat as a pancake and boring to look at. The natural beauty of South Carolina is absolutely stunning to a Texan. Nearly every Texan I talk to that hasn't visited the Palmetto state is oblivious to all the natural beauty. Those that have come to visit on vacation, etc. are hooked.

3) Access. From Columbia, you can get to cool places like Charleston, Savannah, Hilton Head, Wilmington, Greenville and the Upstate in less than two hours. These places have beauty but they also have history and culture. To a Texan, being able to drive to such marvelous places (forgot Aiken -- big mistake on my part) in less than two hours is something they can't even comprehend. I live in Dallas and it can take up to 12 hours to get the hell out of the state, depending on the direction you go.

4) All I am saying is that South Carolina as a state kicks ass. USC shouldn't just promote Columbia when we recruit -- the entire state should be part of the offering. The history (Revolutionary and Civil War), the food (Texans go nuts over mustard-base barbeque sauce once they experience it), the culture, the natural beauty (hills all over the place, even some mountains in upstate -- and beautiful rivers with natural lakes -- Texas has one, just one natural lake!)

This is what Texans would die for if presented properly.

Add all that to a great institution where you can get a tremendous education... it's a winning combination.

Years ago I put together a college guidance portfolio of my own for USC for my daughter and her friends to look over when she was considering colleges. All these Texas kids (from the top public school in the nation) were totally blown away.

And yes, some did enroll at USC.

If we ever learn to take recruiting seriously, that's exactly what will happen with top-drawer recruits.

"Nothin' Could be Finer".
Wow, you ever consider being a recruiting coordinator or something for USC.... You could do the promotional stuff for the university and athletics. That would be awesome.

I agree with this. Columbia and USC (academically/aesthetically) are both getting better. I graduated 2 years ago, visited campus for the first time in almost a year for the A&M game the other day and noticed lots of much needed changes. I was impressed.

Right now, USC is investing a lot of its money in non-revenue sports, getting them up to par I guess.. Once they are up to snuff then I'm hoping we turn our attention and resources to football. Our other big sports are fine (baseball/basketball), they don't need any major facility upgrades for at least another 5 to 10 years.

We, the fans/donor, need to buck up and invest more into the football program. This in turn will hopefully encourage the university to consider "dream projects" for football. I'm glad We're doing the plaza after this season, but that shouldn't be the end of the improvements around WB, it should be the beginning. If I could bulldoze everything south of rosewood, except WB, I would. Just start over. Nothing takes away from WB and it's gameday atmosphere more than that industrial feel around there. Nothing is wrong with an off campus stadium but then you combine that with an industrial area and it's an eyesore. Instead of the that stupid mixed use development that Columbia is building on Bull Street they need to consider putting it and the minor league stadium down by Williams Brice just to improve that entire area. Columbia is no longer a textile/mill town. We need to let that go.

As far as coaching, I love Spurrier and I think we'll be in great hands when he leaves. I think people are forgetting that Spurrier has said that when he leaves he's still going to be a part of the University. Like a previous poster has said, I'm sure he's going to assist the university in finding an appropriate coach. Personally, I would love to see us hire a young offensive minded coach. Somebody that can build an attractive offense with an identity that young players today will want to play in. Young people today are attracted to flashy offenses and we need a young coach with the brain to put his stamp on one. The HC should be a young guy that lives and breathes recruiting (A dabo), then a strong DC. Contrary to popular belief on here, I don't think Ward is going anywhere for the time being.... and I don't think he should... UNLESS this season absolutely tanks.

For proof of what a young, flashy HC can do to a university... look no further than Texas Tech. Who in their right mind would want to spend four years in Lubbock.... when you have a young hotshot coach with an attractive offense then nothing is ever off the table to recruits. Imagine what a "Kingsbury-like" HC could do at South Carolina. We could become THE college football program in the Carolinas, which is a huge coup for recruiting. You can build championship teams just be locking down the elite talent in SC and NC, especially NC (Gurley?). The population in the Carolinas is expected to grow by over 3 million over the next 20 years. That's a lot of people and I'm sure plenty will be playing football.

Keep your eye on Jake Spavital. The current OC at A&M. He's 29 but by the time Spurrier leaves he'll be in his mid 30's with lots of experience. I doubt we have a shot but I like Sumlin and I'm willing to take anybody that's learned under him.
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:14 PM   #63
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Default Re: Gamecock football Long Term Future and the SEC

No way Urban Liar would have won without Tebow and Harvin -- especially Tebow.

If he doesn't have 2x or 3x the talent of the other team he's just an average coach, at best; and a much less than average person.

The way he lied and left Florida TWICE -- who treated him like a king -- showed what trash he really is.

Then you find out about all the no-discipline and all the arrests he allowed . . . just for a few more Ws.

Whoever we get after Coach Spurrier needs to have the same integrity.

We need more than just any up-and-coming young coach.

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Originally Posted by 18IsTheMan View Post
The risk with doing the Urban Meyer thing is risk getting a Darrin Horn. Coaches from the non-major conference schools are hit and miss. Urban Meyers and Jim Tressels are rare finds. I would lean towards a young offensive-minded coach who can bring a top shelf DC. But I'd also be ok with a Nick Saban.

No matter what, it'll be a crap shoot and we just have to hope we guess right.
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:25 PM   #64
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Default Re: Gamecock football Long Term Future and the SEC

This has been a really good thread so far. Kudos to everyone for the good discussion and insight/opinions.

My first thought is that this thread seems to show that the Old Carolina is still alive and well within Gamecock fans. One bad loss and all of a sudden the wheels are about to fall off the whole program.

I think the future is very bright for Carolina football and the athletics program in general. We have a stellar recruiting class lined up for next year. We have more money flowing in than we ever have before, from the SEC, from TV, and from alumni and donors. I think it's important to recognize we have done such a great job that other schools are making improvements to keep up with us. We will eventually have to upgrade again, but the money will be available to make those improvements - a huge difference from 15 years ago.

I agree that the question of who will be the next head coach is arguably THE most important decision that the Carolina AD will every make regarding football and the future success of our program. But let's not forget that Spurrier has agreed to stay on as a 'consultant' or 'adviser' or something to that effect after he retires. He will still be around to help sell our program, and I assume be a part of the hiring process for the next guy.

I think someone from the SEC or ACC would be ideal because they will be more likely to have the ability to quickly establish recruiting connections.

I've always been of the mindset that we should think big. I'd like to see us make a pitch to Saban. Sure he's won at LSU and Alabama and will go down as one of the greatest coaches in SEC history if he does nothing... but how many coaches have done it at three schools? He's young enough and potentially egotistical enough to be sold on it. Plus who wants to live in Tuscaloosa anyway?

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Originally Posted by CockyGuy View Post
I keep hearing Mark Dantonio, maybe even Pat Narduzzi. Problem is no one knows how long SOS will stay, and top tier coaches don't last forever.
Dantonio is from the midwest - I think Ohio - so I can't imagine him coming back to Carolina. Too much family up there.

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Originally Posted by sunbeam View Post
Plus I think people need to face facts. Columbia just isn't that attractive to a lot of recruits. Be honest about it, wine and cheese cracks aside. Would you rather go to school in the Triangle area if you have no connections to Columbia, or Columbia?
Disagree. Columbia isn't the prettiest city in South Carolina, but it's actually very nice as a whole. Lexington, Tuscaloosa, Starkville and Knoxville are are garbage dumps compared to Columbia. I've never been to the other SEC cities, though I've heard College Station is rather boring. Nashville is amazing, but it's also proof that if the city was the only thing that mattered, Vandy would dominate every year.

And let's be honest, Clemson barely qualifies as a town. They have TWO blocks of anything interesting and a total of like four roads - including a bypass road with some strip malls and fast food. Columbia has a cosmopolitan atmosphere, with multiple entertainment districts and is in the heart of a solid, economically prosperous, medium sized metropolitan area. Further, no everyone wants to go to college in a 'college town.' I bet many kids from small towns would love to be in a city for a change of pace. I didn't play sports, but the fact that Columbia was a much larger city than where I grew up (Spartanburg) was a major draw for me.


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Originally Posted by SCBLACKDOG View Post
3. We need to go big on facility upgrades. Stop chipping at this $10 million every other year. WB needs to be beautified, modernized, upgraded, etc. Stop diverting so much funds to non-revenue sport facilities. Those will come in time.
We have to fund non-revenue sports (ie: Title IX). I want Carolina to win at all sports, not just football and baseball.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnet Gamecock View Post
Okay, this is a pet peeve of mine.

South Carolina has its drawbacks but it has major positives when it comes to recruiting -- we simply don't present them properly.

I have lived in Texas for 52 of my 55 years and the other three I spent when I relocated our family to Columbia.

I spent 15 years running a college guidance consulting firm and took a great deal of interest in the "intangibles" that each college has to offer.

Looking at things from a Texas perspective, here are just a few...

1) Texas beaches suck -- big time. Sure, you can go to South Padre and get drunk and play in the waves a bit, but the water is clear as mud. If you go swimming in Corpus Christi you get covered in freaking tar balls that you have to wash off with this God-awful solvent that's probably carcinogenic.

As a contrast, Texas students need to see the contrast that Charleston, Hilton Head and Myrtle Beach offer, and they are reasonably close to Columbia. That's the part everyone misses about Texas -- any nice place you want to go is a hell of a long drive. (Except the Highland Lakes and Hill Country around Austin).

2) 99% of Texas is flat as a pancake and boring to look at. The natural beauty of South Carolina is absolutely stunning to a Texan. Nearly every Texan I talk to that hasn't visited the Palmetto state is oblivious to all the natural beauty. Those that have come to visit on vacation, etc. are hooked.

3) Access. From Columbia, you can get to cool places like Charleston, Savannah, Hilton Head, Wilmington, Greenville and the Upstate in less than two hours. These places have beauty but they also have history and culture. To a Texan, being able to drive to such marvelous places (forgot Aiken -- big mistake on my part) in less than two hours is something they can't even comprehend. I live in Dallas and it can take up to 12 hours to get the hell out of the state, depending on the direction you go.

4) All I am saying is that South Carolina as a state kicks ass. USC shouldn't just promote Columbia when we recruit -- the entire state should be part of the offering. The history (Revolutionary and Civil War), the food (Texans go nuts over mustard-base barbeque sauce once they experience it), the culture, the natural beauty (hills all over the place, even some mountains in upstate -- and beautiful rivers with natural lakes -- Texas has one, just one natural lake!)

This is what Texans would die for if presented properly.

Add all that to a great institution where you can get a tremendous education... it's a winning combination.

Years ago I put together a college guidance portfolio of my own for USC for my daughter and her friends to look over when she was considering colleges. All these Texas kids (from the top public school in the nation) were totally blown away.

And yes, some did enroll at USC.

If we ever learn to take recruiting seriously, that's exactly what will happen with top-drawer recruits.

"Nothin' Could be Finer".
This is a great post, but I want to point out that South Carolina doesn't have any 'natural' lakes. All of ours are man-made. There are swamps and a geological anomaly called the Carolina Bays, but that's about it. That said, our lakes still are quite beautiful.
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:43 PM   #65
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Default Re: Gamecock football Long Term Future and the SEC

An outsider's two cents.....

postives:
Steve has made you relevant. You're doing a much better job of getting the elite talent in state to stay home.

You've improved facilities. You're not lightyears behind like you used to be.

There is enough talent in the Carolinas, that if you beat out others for what is left over in Georgia and Florida you can build a fine team.

negatives:
Clemson: It's ashamed you have another team that is a recruiting magnet in state. Thankfully UGA does not have that problem.

WB stadium: Your fans and atmosphere are great, but that stadium is not one of the best in the conference as far as beauty goes. I'm sure most of you won't like that I say this, but I'm being objective. I hate UF and UTK with passion but I can't deny they have good stadiums.

SEC: It's a recruiting draw, but it's much easier for Clemson to stay in the top ten than you guys. There can only be two to three dominant teams in the East year to year. UTK looks like they are on the right track, UF and UGA will always be able to sign elite classes because of instate talent. It's really a dog eat dog world in the SEC and very hard to stay on top for a long time.


As a whole though, right now I think you guys are in the best shape you've ever been for long term success. Your next HCing hire will be huge.
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:53 PM   #66
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Default Re: Gamecock football Long Term Future and the SEC

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Yes I know that we are only one game into the season and I do not want this to be mistaken as a overreaction/under-reaction thread about what happened on Thursday. I am just hoping for a genuine discussion on what South Carolina's future looks in relation to the other teams in the SEC.

EAST:

UGA- Always has great athletes, haven't gotten over the hump in recent years but will continually recruit well/always have solid coaching/good facilities

TENN- I honestly believe is a sleeping giant possibly bigger than where they use to be. Fans and players have bought into what Butch Jones is selling and he is recruiting really well. They have improved facilities and could be really trouble in the next few years.

UK- I think Mark Stoops has done well in recruiting and efforts to improve their football facilities and standing in a "basketball" school. I could see them flip flopping with Vandy in the aspect of possibly reaching 8-9 wins for a couple years in a row.

Vandy - James Franklin leaving might have set this program back further than anyone could have realized.

Mizzou- An enigma to me. They are improving their stadium and seem to like Pinkel but I just cant buy into them being a contender year in and year out but will come up every 2-3 years and surprise people (i.e. last year)

UF - Muschamp is making strides to improve their offense. They will ALWAYS have athletes but he is not liked well and I do not see him lasting there much longer even if he does have a better season this years

I want do into all the West but:

Auburn with Malzahn is here to stay, Bama is Bama

Texas A&M - Since we play them every year Ill say this. They have money we could only dream of, a coach that I think is out to prove something and could turn into a giant in the game. They have a rich recruiting base that doesn't have cycles it just reloads. This is a game we are going to dread having to play year in and year out. However will Sumlin get plucked up by the NFL only time will tell? Also have you seen their new football facilities? Makes our new upgrades look 5-10 years behind.


With all that said our unprecedented success has been great, however is it sustainable, do you think we recruit well enough to provide us a foundation to whomever comes after the HBC? I mention all this for the seemingly lack of swagger and attitude of a building program that many of these other teams have. We seem to have some similar issues year in and year out (i.e. starting slow, trouble vs. lesser opponents, dropping that one game a year we shouldn't) Solutions? Am I a crazy?
We would really benefit from clempson taking a giant step back. We still split some in state talent with them, as well as some guys from the border states. The dominos are in place. Morris has his deal up this year, Venables is a hot name in coaching for some reason, and Dabo will be left holding the bag.

If Butch Jones gets taken by Michigan, that wouldn't hurt either. But with the funds we have coming in our facilities will catch up and we can see some sustained success.
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:59 PM   #67
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Default Re: Gamecock football Long Term Future and the SEC

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Originally Posted by Garnet Gamecock View Post
Okay, this is a pet peeve of mine.

South Carolina has its drawbacks but it has major positives when it comes to recruiting -- we simply don't present them properly.

I have lived in Texas for 52 of my 55 years and the other three I spent when I relocated our family to Columbia.

I spent 15 years running a college guidance consulting firm and took a great deal of interest in the "intangibles" that each college has to offer.

Looking at things from a Texas perspective, here are just a few...

1) Texas beaches suck -- big time. Sure, you can go to South Padre and get drunk and play in the waves a bit, but the water is clear as mud. If you go swimming in Corpus Christi you get covered in freaking tar balls that you have to wash off with this God-awful solvent that's probably carcinogenic.

As a contrast, Texas students need to see the contrast that Charleston, Hilton Head and Myrtle Beach offer, and they are reasonably close to Columbia. That's the part everyone misses about Texas -- any nice place you want to go is a hell of a long drive. (Except the Highland Lakes and Hill Country around Austin).

2) 99% of Texas is flat as a pancake and boring to look at. The natural beauty of South Carolina is absolutely stunning to a Texan. Nearly every Texan I talk to that hasn't visited the Palmetto state is oblivious to all the natural beauty. Those that have come to visit on vacation, etc. are hooked.

3) Access. From Columbia, you can get to cool places like Charleston, Savannah, Hilton Head, Wilmington, Greenville and the Upstate in less than two hours. These places have beauty but they also have history and culture. To a Texan, being able to drive to such marvelous places (forgot Aiken -- big mistake on my part) in less than two hours is something they can't even comprehend. I live in Dallas and it can take up to 12 hours to get the hell out of the state, depending on the direction you go.

4) All I am saying is that South Carolina as a state kicks ass. USC shouldn't just promote Columbia when we recruit -- the entire state should be part of the offering. The history (Revolutionary and Civil War), the food (Texans go nuts over mustard-base barbeque sauce once they experience it), the culture, the natural beauty (hills all over the place, even some mountains in upstate -- and beautiful rivers with natural lakes -- Texas has one, just one natural lake!)

This is what Texans would die for if presented properly.

Add all that to a great institution where you can get a tremendous education... it's a winning combination.

Years ago I put together a college guidance portfolio of my own for USC for my daughter and her friends to look over when she was considering colleges. All these Texas kids (from the top public school in the nation) were totally blown away.

And yes, some did enroll at USC.

If we ever learn to take recruiting seriously, that's exactly what will happen with top-drawer recruits.

"Nothin' Could be Finer".
Very well stated and I agree totally. A previous poster to this thread said "Clemson - nicer place to spend 4 years of college than Columbia." For some yes, for others NO! Clemson has the small town feel and perhaps a prettier campus with more trees, but Columbia has so much more to offer as you just explained. Myself, as well as my sons, all had the opportunity to go to Clemson and we all chose USC ...We all love Columbia, the most conveniently located city in the state!
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Old 09-03-2014, 10:37 PM   #68
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Default Re: Gamecock football Long Term Future and the SEC

Exactly... I grew up in a small town and there was no way in hell i was going to spend four years of college in ANOTHER small town. With a little more cooperation between USC and the City of Columbia more could be done... but Columbia is really not a bad place to go to college. Its not too small or too big. Lots of nightlife, houses to rent for students, cheap and good food, close to the beaches/mountains/larger cities (Charlotte and Atlanta).. Columbia is set up perfectlyl for a major university actually.
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:52 AM   #69
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Default Re: Gamecock football Long Term Future and the SEC

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UT - this is the school we should worry about. Knoxville is a grubby city with nothing to attract players and Tennessee is no hotbed of recruits, but Butch Jones is a top coach. They absolutely demolished Utah State last night and looked good doing it. Their game against UGA later this month in Athens will tell us a lot about how far they have come.
Knoxville is no worse a city than Columbia and in MANY people's opinion much better. It is at the foot of some of the most beautiful land in the country and downtown Knoxville is really nice now. The city of Columbia does nothing for USC that Knoxville doesn't do for UT. They are very similar. Honestly with the way our Stadium is right next to Downtown and campus and the river it is generally considered much better.

IF you look at the facts TN is actually in a much better position in state recruiting than SC currently is. The past 3 years the state of TN has had more 4 and 5 star recruits than SC each year. Nashville is booming with football talent. In the class of 2013, there was one Middle Tennessee prospect in the Rivals100. In the class of 2014, there were three --- and EIGHT 4-star prospects. In 2015, there are NINE 4-star prospects and already there are FIVE in the class of 2016. This is just in Nashville.

Also Tennessee has no major in state recruiting competition like SC has with Clemson. We have a better donor pool, bigger fanbase, better tradition and our facilities are better. It will be very hard for South Carolina to stay consistently ahead of Tennessee where they currently reside. I have been telling you all this for 5 years now as we made every wrong decision as a program for about 4 yaers from 07-2011 to dig ourselves a big hole.

South Carolina in my opinion needs to somehow connect their football stadium with their campus and city life better to improve the Gameday atmosphere. You all also need to start investing more time and money into recruiting Florida like your evil twin to the North has been doing, not Texas.

Spurrier is a once in a generation coach and is not dead yet, I would focus on the top 5 recruiting class he is pulling in and hope you can somehow grab an SEC Title before he hangs it up.

JMO.

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Old 09-04-2014, 12:45 PM   #70
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Default Re: Gamecock football Long Term Future and the SEC

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Knoxville is no worse a city than Columbia and in MANY people's opinion much better. It is at the foot of some of the most beautiful land in the country and downtown Knoxville is really nice now. The city of Columbia does nothing for USC that Knoxville doesn't do for UT. They are very similar. Honestly with the way our Stadium is right next to Downtown and campus and the river it is generally considered much better.
I spend a lot of time in Knoxville, as I only live about 90 miles from it. Knoxville is not an attractive place to live, at all. We can argue back and forth about this, and I'm sure we will, but most of the population shifts in Tennessee are to areas away from Knoxville. Nashville is growing, as is Chattanooga, but Knoxville is becoming less and less relevant in its own state.

It's tough for people in Tennessee to swallow, but UTK is an unattractive campus, period. Perhaps the same can be said about the city of Columbia to residents of SC, but the USC campus is objectively attractive.

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IF you look at the facts TN is actually in a much better position in state recruiting than SC currently is. The past 3 years the state of TN has had more 4 and 5 star recruits than SC each year. Nashville is booming with football talent. In the class of 2013, there was one Middle Tennessee prospect in the Rivals100. In the class of 2014, there were three --- and EIGHT 4-star prospects. In 2015, there are NINE 4-star prospects and already there are FIVE in the class of 2016. This is just in Nashville.
Nashville is not solely "Big Orange Country" anymore. It's become a transient city just like Atlanta has, and has alumni from all across the SEC footprint living and working there. Just last week UGa took a prospect out of Nashville as if it were neutral territory. Because it is. One of the fastest-growing USC Alumni chapters is in Nashville, not to mention all of the Dwags (sic), Bammers, Aubies, Ole Miss, State, LSU, Arky and Cat fans. This area is even more up for grabs than Atlanta is.

East Tennessee is all Vol all the time, but there's very little talent in this part of the state. The high school talent in Chattanooga, for example, is laughably bad.

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Also Tennessee has no major in state recruiting competition like SC has with Clemson. We have a better donor pool, bigger fanbase, better tradition and our facilities are better. It will be very hard for South Carolina to stay consistently ahead of Tennessee where they currently reside. I have been telling you all this for 5 years now as we made every wrong decision as a program for about 4 yaers from 07-2011 to dig ourselves a big hole.
Vandy may have possibly lost the momentum that they had going when Franklin was there, but if Mason can have some success there, this will continue to be a bigger and bigger deal. Vandy will never have the sidewalk fan contingent that UTK has, for sure, but they can absolutely offer something that UTK can't - a Vanderbilt diploma. Franklin recognized the value in that, and if Mason can continue to sell the same, the state of Tennessee gets a helluva lot smaller, and fast.

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South Carolina in my opinion needs to somehow connect their football stadium with their campus and city life better to improve the Gameday atmosphere. You all also need to start investing more time and money into recruiting Florida like your evil twin to the North has been doing, not Texas.

Spurrier is a once in a generation coach and is not dead yet, I would focus on the top 5 recruiting class he is pulling in and hope you can somehow grab an SEC Title before he hangs it up.

JMO.
The gameday atmosphere has changed night-and-day since I was in school at USC, and I left in '07. It continues to get better by leaps and bounds. Next year, when the apron is complete, WBS will look drastically different. Couple that with the academic facilities and overall campus upgrades that USC has made in the last few years, and I think that USC has the trajectory mapped out pretty well. The worst thing you can do is stay stagnant, and Carolina certainly hasn't since Sorensen was here.

What I think USC really needs to do, honestly, is harp their flagship academic programs more. Pastides needs to be beating the drum about our business school, journalism program, honors college, and the history department a helluva lot more than he currently does. USC is essentially a liberal arts school that is somewhat limited in its degree offerings just based on how the school is chartered, but there's no reason to be shy about the accomplishments of those programs specifically.

Moreso than recruiting Florida hard, I think USC needs to, ironically, pull a page out of the UTK playbook in the 90s: Lock-down the Carolinas, and reiterate that USC is the only SEC program in this region. Infill areas of weakness by hitting metro Atlanta hard. This is why it is so important to keep playing the ECUs, UNCs, and NC States. USC has to keep their presence in NC and keep beating those programs to show strength.

I'm not foolish enough to think that the worm has turned completely. But USC is absolutely primed for long-term success, and it's not just because of Spurrier the coach. The AD has undergone staggering changes, and the infrastructure is being laid so that USC can continue to compete into the future. No, we'll never be Alabama or anything to the casual sidewalk contingent, but I firmly believe the days of going 4-8 and getting excited about bowl eligibility are over.

Speaking of bowl eligibility, good luck to your Vols.
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Old 09-04-2014, 01:14 PM   #71
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Default Re: Gamecock football Long Term Future and the SEC

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South Carolina in my opinion needs to somehow connect their football stadium with their campus and city life better to improve the Gameday atmosphere.
i agree with you here ... but it takes time an in fact is slowly starting to move towards that direction... the "industrial" look around WB is getting better but those business currently there cant be forced to leave... but i agree I would like to see more bars, restaurants, mixed use, green space around WB... in fact i wish (it will never happen) that the state fair would move out of downtown to a bigger space somewhere else which would open alot of space for better looking parking or other nicer business

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What I think USC really needs to do, honestly, is harp their flagship academic programs more. Pastides needs to be beating the drum about our business school, journalism program, honors college, and the history department a helluva lot more than he currently does. USC is essentially a liberal arts school that is somewhat limited in its degree offerings just based on how the school is chartered, but there's no reason to be shy about the accomplishments of those programs specifically.
Pastides does a pretty good job actually... i will direct you to his state of the university speech done this morning .. they havent posted transcripts yet but im sure they will at some point

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Old 09-04-2014, 01:24 PM   #72
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Default Re: Gamecock football Long Term Future and the SEC

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Knoxville is no worse a city than Columbia and in MANY people's opinion much better. It is at the foot of some of the most beautiful land in the country and downtown Knoxville is really nice now. The city of Columbia does nothing for USC that Knoxville doesn't do for UT. They are very similar. Honestly with the way our Stadium is right next to Downtown and campus and the river it is generally considered much better.

IF you look at the facts TN is actually in a much better position in state recruiting than SC currently is. The past 3 years the state of TN has had more 4 and 5 star recruits than SC each year. Nashville is booming with football talent. In the class of 2013, there was one Middle Tennessee prospect in the Rivals100. In the class of 2014, there were three --- and EIGHT 4-star prospects. In 2015, there are NINE 4-star prospects and already there are FIVE in the class of 2016. This is just in Nashville.

Also Tennessee has no major in state recruiting competition like SC has with Clemson. We have a better donor pool, bigger fanbase, better tradition and our facilities are better. It will be very hard for South Carolina to stay consistently ahead of Tennessee where they currently reside. I have been telling you all this for 5 years now as we made every wrong decision as a program for about 4 yaers from 07-2011 to dig ourselves a big hole.

South Carolina in my opinion needs to somehow connect their football stadium with their campus and city life better to improve the Gameday atmosphere. You all also need to start investing more time and money into recruiting Florida like your evil twin to the North has been doing, not Texas.

Spurrier is a once in a generation coach and is not dead yet, I would focus on the top 5 recruiting class he is pulling in and hope you can somehow grab an SEC Title before he hangs it up.

JMO.
Knoxville is nice. The location of the stadium next to the river is pretty cool. The seating inside Neyland is garbage. Bleacher seats with people packed in like sardines. I hated it. It was a high school stadium on steroids.

Granted, the players don't have to sit there and they can appreciate the atmosphere with all those people. As a fan of college football, I hated the inside of the stadium for the seating. Nothing against the stadium location or Knoxville though (aside from being too much orange - I hate orange).
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Old 09-04-2014, 01:30 PM   #73
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Default Re: Gamecock football Long Term Future and the SEC

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I spend a lot of time in Knoxville, as I only live about 90 miles from it. Knoxville is not an attractive place to live, at all. We can argue back and forth about this, and I'm sure we will, but most of the population shifts in Tennessee are to areas away from Knoxville. Nashville is growing, as is Chattanooga, but Knoxville is becoming less and less relevant in its own state.

It's tough for people in Tennessee to swallow, but UTK is an unattractive campus, period. Perhaps the same can be said about the city of Columbia to residents of SC, but the USC campus is objectively attractive.
I live 100 miles from Columbia and have actually lived in the city for a year so I know it very well also. I will agree 100% that USC's actual campus is prettier than Tennessee's. But the way it is broken up by Assembly and then factoring in that the stadium is not even on campus or near the downtown/bar scene it evens out if not falls behind TN in terms of attractiveness to a football recruit.

Back to the cities themselves your second comment is exactly correct. Any unbiased fan of either team will not have nice things to say about the cities of Columbia or Knoxville. They both are very close to some beautiful places but are both not amazing in their own right.


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Nashville is not solely "Big Orange Country" anymore. It's become a transient city just like Atlanta has, and has alumni from all across the SEC footprint living and working there. Just last week UGa took a prospect out of Nashville as if it were neutral territory. Because it is. One of the fastest-growing USC Alumni chapters is in Nashville, not to mention all of the Dwags (sic), Bammers, Aubies, Ole Miss, State, LSU, Arky and Cat fans. This area is even more up for grabs than Atlanta is.

East Tennessee is all Vol all the time, but there's very little talent in this part of the state. The high school talent in Chattanooga, for example, is laughably bad.
Tennessee landed 80%+ of the top players from Nashville last year and will every year for the forseable future with Butch and Co. at the helm. There will always be one or two that get away but the city of Nashville is definitely greater than 50% Vol fans and is the only major in state school no other way to slice it. Agree with you on Chatty and most of ETN. Very bad HSFB.


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Vandy may have possibly lost the momentum that they had going when Franklin was there, but if Mason can have some success there, this will continue to be a bigger and bigger deal. Vandy will never have the sidewalk fan contingent that UTK has, for sure, but they can absolutely offer something that UTK can't - a Vanderbilt diploma. Franklin recognized the value in that, and if Mason can continue to sell the same, the state of Tennessee gets a helluva lot smaller, and fast.
Vandy only had two top 15 TN players committed last year the day Franklin left and then they lost one of those to TN after he left. The point is, we had taken back the state of TN recruiting over Vandy even if Franklin had stayed. Vandy is Vandy and one, two year blip doesn't change that, especially after Mason derails them this season. Many don't understand how bad Dooley was doing recruiting TN and other places...he basically just quit trying for a year.

Quote:
The gameday atmosphere has changed night-and-day since I was in school at USC, and I left in '07. It continues to get better by leaps and bounds. Next year, when the apron is complete, WBS will look drastically different. Couple that with the academic facilities and overall campus upgrades that USC has made in the last few years, and I think that USC has the trajectory mapped out pretty well. The worst thing you can do is stay stagnant, and Carolina certainly hasn't since Sorensen was here.
The last time I've been to a game in Columbia was in 2010 looking forward to going back this year. But read these posts from an A&M fan from SEC rant who went to Athens and Columbia last week on his evaluation of SC gameday. He is a complete outsider and this is always what everyone has to say after going to a game at USC. It will always be lacking off campus. It is just the facts.

http://www.secrant.com/rant/p/519489...SC-and-GA.aspx

Quote:
What I think USC really needs to do, honestly, is harp their flagship academic programs more. Pastides needs to be beating the drum about our business school, journalism program, honors college, and the history department a helluva lot more than he currently does. USC is essentially a liberal arts school that is somewhat limited in its degree offerings just based on how the school is chartered, but there's no reason to be shy about the accomplishments of those programs specifically.

Moreso than recruiting Florida hard, I think USC needs to, ironically, pull a page out of the UTK playbook in the 90s: Lock-down the Carolinas, and reiterate that USC is the only SEC program in this region. Infill areas of weakness by hitting metro Atlanta hard. This is why it is so important to keep playing the ECUs, UNCs, and NC States. USC has to keep their presence in NC and keep beating those programs to show strength.
Watch out for Tennessee in NC we are taking that state back hard right now and could spoil SC's plan to take that as their foothold. SC and TN can't both be elite in my opinion. You all better hope Butch doesn't work out.

Quote:
I'm not foolish enough to think that the worm has turned completely. But USC is absolutely primed for long-term success, and it's not just because of Spurrier the coach. The AD has undergone staggering changes, and the infrastructure is being laid so that USC can continue to compete into the future. No, we'll never be Alabama or anything to the casual sidewalk contingent, but I firmly believe the days of going 4-8 and getting excited about bowl eligibility are over.

Speaking of bowl eligibility, good luck to your Vols.
Thanks good luck to you all in getting there as well, don't over look the Pirates.
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Old 09-04-2014, 01:48 PM   #74
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Default Re: Gamecock football Long Term Future and the SEC

I'm interested to know how people would propose to "connect" the campus to the stadium. It's literally a mile away.

Columbia and SCDOT are looking at grade separating the tracks on Assembly St. I'm not sure if that's a bridge over the tracks or raising the tracks over the road. If that happens then there is an opportunity to improve the area for pedestrians. But other than adding sidewalks and trees along all of Assembly Street, what could be done? That area is not attractive, but it's zoned industrial. Other than buying out all of the businesses, there's not a lot that can be done from an aesthetic standpoint unless businesses volunteer to make upgrades.
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Old 09-04-2014, 02:29 PM   #75
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Default Re: Gamecock football Long Term Future and the SEC

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I'm interested to know how people would propose to "connect" the campus to the stadium. It's literally a mile away.

Columbia and SCDOT are looking at grade separating the tracks on Assembly St. I'm not sure if that's a bridge over the tracks or raising the tracks over the road. If that happens then there is an opportunity to improve the area for pedestrians. But other than adding sidewalks and trees along all of Assembly Street, what could be done? That area is not attractive, but it's zoned industrial. Other than buying out all of the businesses, there's not a lot that can be done from an aesthetic standpoint unless businesses volunteer to make upgrades.
I think maybe somehow make getting to and from the stadium from DT, campus or the Vista easier via shuttles or something. Another option would be that area developing its own restaurant and bar scene of its own.

Just something where people have somewhere to go before and after the game than just a big parking lot or sitting in hours of traffic.
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Old 09-04-2014, 03:39 PM   #76
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Default Re: Gamecock football Long Term Future and the SEC

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I'm interested to know how people would propose to "connect" the campus to the stadium. It's literally a mile away.

Columbia and SCDOT are looking at grade separating the tracks on Assembly St. I'm not sure if that's a bridge over the tracks or raising the tracks over the road. If that happens then there is an opportunity to improve the area for pedestrians. But other than adding sidewalks and trees along all of Assembly Street, what could be done? That area is not attractive, but it's zoned industrial. Other than buying out all of the businesses, there's not a lot that can be done from an aesthetic standpoint unless businesses volunteer to make upgrades.
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Originally Posted by Ericvol2096 View Post
I think maybe somehow make getting to and from the stadium from DT, campus or the Vista easier via shuttles or something. Another option would be that area developing its own restaurant and bar scene of its own.

Just something where people have somewhere to go before and after the game than just a big parking lot or sitting in hours of traffic.
just fyi ... things that are happening around the stadium ... its been said but its a process... you cant just force some of the more industrial businesses out but it is improving

http://www.thestate.com/2014/08/23/3...t-are-new.html

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With three local breweries now making and serving beer near the stadium, we’re guessing more people than ever will celebrate over flights, growlers and pints.

Swamp Cabbage Brewing Co. (921 Brookwood Drive) opened earlier this month, joining River Rat Brewing (1231 Shop Road) and Conquest Brewing Co. (947 S. Stadium Road), which primed the pump on this tasty trend.

Read more here: http://www.thestate.com/2014/08/23/3...#storylink=cpy
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Old 09-04-2014, 04:14 PM   #77
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Old 09-04-2014, 05:09 PM   #78
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Default Re: Gamecock football Long Term Future and the SEC

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I think maybe somehow make getting to and from the stadium from DT, campus or the Vista easier via shuttles or something. Another option would be that area developing its own restaurant and bar scene of its own.

Just something where people have somewhere to go before and after the game than just a big parking lot or sitting in hours of traffic.
Improvements are coming, but it takes time. The kind of improvements you are talking about require lots of businesses and landowners to gradually move out of the area. The area around WBS was once far worse than it currently is and has made great improvements in recent years. I've been to Knoxville and the fact that Neyland stadium is on campus is on the only "advantage" UTK has over USC's tailgating scene. Campus is not "broken up" by Assembly. Fifteen years ago Assembly street was pretty much USC's western frontier, fast forward a few years and we now have our new rec center, basketball arena, public health school, business school (which literally just opened), Greek village, and baseball stadium all "across Assembly" with a new student union, dorms and more private student housing on the way. Safe to say, that's essentially west campus now.

Just as USC is stretching west to the Congaree, it'll eventually stretch south to WBS, but like I said.. it takes time. Its already laid out in the master plan here http://www.cpc.sc.edu/downloads/master-plan.pdf and here http://www.sasaki.com/project/35/uni...a-master-plan/

In the meantime, my only advice to visiting opposing fans is to stop whining. Pack lots of beer in your cooler and hang out at your tailgate until after traffic dies down. OR you can just take a Gameday (they have an express route in and out) shuttle to campus and walk from campus to The Vista or 5 points, they're both close to campus. And contrary to popular belief, there are bars around WBS, you just have to know where to look and a few breweries just opened as well. That's all I have for you, because honestly, Gamecock fans are tired of hearing how opposing fans (especially UGA and UTK fans) whine about our stadium being off campus. Every city can't be Athens and neither is Knoxville.
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Old 09-05-2014, 02:31 AM   #79
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Default Re: Gamecock football Long Term Future and the SEC

If I had to pick from the current crop, I'd give a hard look to Philip Montgomery, OC at Baylor. He has an excellent track record of developing offensive talent at both Houston and Baylor. He's young. As a coach at 3 TX high schools, Houston and now Baylor he would obviously have strong recruiting ties in the state...an absolutely invaluable asset.
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Old 09-05-2014, 11:17 AM   #80
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Default Re: Gamecock football Long Term Future and the SEC

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I think maybe somehow make getting to and from the stadium from DT, campus or the Vista easier via shuttles or something. Another option would be that area developing its own restaurant and bar scene of its own.

Just something where people have somewhere to go before and after the game than just a big parking lot or sitting in hours of traffic.
I see what you're saying, but I don't see that as being an issue. Would it be nice? Yes. But people seem to make it to Five Points and the Vista anyway. I think that unless a significant, full time (ie: not gameday condos) residential population develops down there to support it, that another bar district in Columbia wouldn't be successful. I don't see a lot of residential development happening in that area since its zoned industrial.


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Improvements are coming, but it takes time. The kind of improvements you are talking about require lots of businesses and landowners to gradually move out of the area. The area around WBS was once far worse than it currently is and has made great improvements in recent years. I've been to Knoxville and the fact that Neyland stadium is on campus is on the only "advantage" UTK has over USC's tailgating scene. Campus is not "broken up" by Assembly. Fifteen years ago Assembly street was pretty much USC's western frontier, fast forward a few years and we now have our new rec center, basketball arena, public health school, business school (which literally just opened), Greek village, and baseball stadium all "across Assembly" with a new student union, dorms and more private student housing on the way. Safe to say, that's essentially west campus now.

Just as USC is stretching west to the Congaree, it'll eventually stretch south to WBS, but like I said.. it takes time. Its already laid out in the master plan here http://www.cpc.sc.edu/downloads/master-plan.pdf and here http://www.sasaki.com/project/35/uni...a-master-plan/

In the meantime, my only advice to visiting opposing fans is to stop whining. Pack lots of beer in your cooler and hang out at your tailgate until after traffic dies down. OR you can just take a Gameday (they have an express route in and out) shuttle to campus and walk from campus to The Vista or 5 points, they're both close to campus. And contrary to popular belief, there are bars around WBS, you just have to know where to look and a few breweries just opened as well. That's all I have for you, because honestly, Gamecock fans are tired of hearing how opposing fans (especially UGA and UTK fans) whine about our stadium being off campus. Every city can't be Athens and neither is Knoxville.
The plans don't show extending campus to the stadium area, although it does talk about "improving connections" without specifying what that would entail. My assumption is that it would mean improving the streets to make it more ped/bike friendly.
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