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Old 05-04-2017, 03:59 PM   #21
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Default Re: Way Too Early 2018 Class

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Originally Posted by Ironfan View Post
top 15 not a chance. Top 20-25 is par for the last how many years?
There is a chance for Top 15. If the class I listed would come to fruition we would have a composite score of 239.31 which would've put us at #15 last year and #17 in 2016. That also includes the fact that Gerald and Roderick haven't received ratings yet AND its likely Ericson, Valentine, and Ojulari all end up being 4's. Its all hypothetical though. This class isn't going to be nearly as bad as some think barring a complete meltdown on the field this year or something drastic happening to the coaching staff.
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Old 05-04-2017, 04:02 PM   #22
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Default Re: Way Too Early 2018 Class

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Originally Posted by Jim Lahey View Post
Well, I just see yet another top target is trending elsewhere. I think this class ends up top 25 at best.
A Top 25 Muschamp class is going to have some really good football players as evident by the two he has signed so far. I expect better classes over time though.
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Old 05-04-2017, 04:08 PM   #23
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Default Re: Way Too Early 2018 Class

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There is a chance for Top 15. If the class I listed would come to fruition we would have a composite score of 239.31 which would've put us at #15 last year and #17 in 2016. That also includes the fact that Gerald and Roderick haven't received ratings yet AND its likely Ericson, Valentine, and Ojulari all end up being 4's. Its all hypothetical though. This class isn't going to be nearly as bad as some think barring a complete meltdown on the field this year or something drastic happening to the coaching staff.
Basically this. No need to panic this is still going to be a strong class. I can understand some folks being annoyed that some of the luster is off of it because headlining it with a top 5 player in the country would have given it just a really nice feel but it is what it is and doesn't stop it from being a very strong class.
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Old 05-04-2017, 04:59 PM   #24
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Default Re: Way Too Early 2018 Class

nothing we can do but let it play out
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Old 05-04-2017, 05:17 PM   #25
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Default Re: Way Too Early 2018 Class

Nothing like a good old fashioned freak out from our fans. This class is the start of big things for our program.
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Old 05-04-2017, 05:20 PM   #26
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Default Re: Way Too Early 2018 Class

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Basically this. No need to panic this is still going to be a strong class. I can understand some folks being annoyed that some of the luster is off of it because headlining it with a top 5 player in the country would have given it just a really nice feel but it is what it is and doesn't stop it from being a very strong class.
A lot of these are the same fans who are pissed we're not getting big recruits yet in the same breath will list dozens of reasons why we can't get or don't deserve to have big recruits. It's amusing exercise in futility.
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Old 05-04-2017, 06:34 PM   #27
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Default Re: Way Too Early 2018 Class

I think a lot of people got a little over-hyped when we first assembled this staff because of the reputation of a lot of our coaches had prior to coming here. Muschamp, Robinson, Thompson, and McClendon were all former recruiter of the year winners. They have history of grabbing multiple big named talent. The problem is that those guys were selling programs like Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, Georgia, and Florida. Programs that pretty much can recruit based off name. Coach Muschamp has said that this has been a tougher job than he originally anticipated it being. He thought that Coach Spurrier had left him more to work with. I am in the belief that he thought Coach Spurrier had been capitalizing on the 4 year run he had. Little did he know that we were a sinking ship. He has said that he and his staff had to change their approach to be more of a complete rebuild than just adding a few playmakers and getting back to contending. Coach Thompson said he has never had to yell at a group of players more than he did our defensive line last year. Then you throw on top of that the 3-9 season prior to last season, Clemson winning the Natti, and Coach Muschamp's history at UF; its been an uphill battle ever since he got here. Heck, I'm sure 6-7 and the Clemson/USF losses are being used against us too. We need to face facts that it is HARD to get big name kids to want to come here right now and it isn't something we can blame the coaching staff for. They have been busting their ass ever since they got here. You also have to take into account that they have been "behind" in the 2016, 2017, and 2018 classes. Given the slew of offers that have gone out to 2019 and 2020 kids this year, I would venture to say that they are finally getting back in line with the competition.

So here is what I think they have done in the short term. They have put a big premium on evaluating kids in person. They are in a time where they can't have many "misses". They have got to be 100% sure that the prospect they sign can play at this level and WANT to be here at USC. Now, I'm not saying we are intentionally not recruiting big names. But I'm not sure that they are going to spend the resources on a kid that isn't really serious about us or has some red flags in their football evaluation. They can't afford the risk right now. So they are casting a wide net of offers (we are finally recruiting nationally) and turning over every stone possible to find players which is why the recruiting board always seems to be moving around. I mean look at the kids this cycle that we have offered that have been followed up shortly with another major school offer? CWM and his staff are ahead of the game when it comes to finding players. Some other message boards are joking that we are becoming the scouting service for the Southeast. Which is obviously a dig but it gives me a peace of mind that we finally have the right guy(s) making the evaluations now.

So my point is that it appears to me that CWM and his staff are trying to re-build the foundation right now players that are at a low "bust" rate with the long term goal hoping that wins on the field helps them get back into the living rooms of the bigger fish down the road where they can really work their magic. I don't for a second believe that our staff is over-rated when it comes to recruiting.

In all seriousness, lets not overlook that he has done exactly what he was supposed to do when he was hired. He has improved the talent level of our team with the past 2 recruiting classes.

The 2016 class has guys like Bentley, Edwards, Dowdle, Thomas, King, K. Smith, Davis, Pollard, Hinson, Thompson, Hutcherson, Brunson, Dawkins, and Wonnum who have either played and contributed or are expected to play a lot of snaps this coming season.

The 2017 class has guys like O. Smith, Webb, Chalmers, Dickerson, Williams, Kinlaw, Johnson, Nixon, Sterling, Greene, Daley, Bowen, Thompson, S. Smith, and Terrell who can all potentially be playing a lot of snaps this year.

That is a lot of good players he has identified and signed so far and I am very interested and anxious to see what he can do in 2018, 2019, and 2020.
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Old 05-04-2017, 06:45 PM   #28
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Default Re: Way Too Early 2018 Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoverTwo View Post
I think a lot of people got a little over-hyped when we first assembled this staff because of the reputation of a lot of our coaches had prior to coming here. Muschamp, Robinson, Thompson, and McClendon were all former recruiter of the year winners. They have history of grabbing multiple big named talent. The problem is that those guys were selling programs like Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, Georgia, and Florida. Programs that pretty much can recruit based off name. Coach Muschamp has said that this has been a tougher job than he originally anticipated it being. He thought that Coach Spurrier had left him more to work with. I am in the belief that he thought Coach Spurrier had been capitalizing on the 4 year run he had. Little did he know that we were a sinking ship. He has said that he and his staff had to change their approach to be more of a complete rebuild than just adding a few playmakers and getting back to contending. Coach Thompson said he has never had to yell at a group of players more than he did our defensive line last year. Then you throw on top of that the 3-9 season prior to last season, Clemson winning the Natti, and Coach Muschamp's history at UF; its been an uphill battle ever since he got here. Heck, I'm sure 6-7 and the Clemson/USF losses are being used against us too. We need to face facts that it is HARD to get big name kids to want to come here right now and it isn't something we can blame the coaching staff for. They have been busting their ass ever since they got here. You also have to take into account that they have been "behind" in the 2016, 2017, and 2018 classes. Given the slew of offers that have gone out to 2019 and 2020 kids this year, I would venture to say that they are finally getting back in line with the competition.

So here is what I think they have done in the short term. They have put a big premium on evaluating kids in person. They are in a time where they can't have many "misses". They have got to be 100% sure that the prospect they sign can play at this level and WANT to be here at USC. Now, I'm not saying we are intentionally not recruiting big names. But I'm not sure that they are going to spend the resources on a kid that isn't really serious about us or has some red flags in their football evaluation. They can't afford the risk right now. So they are casting a wide net of offers (we are finally recruiting nationally) and turning over every stone possible to find players which is why the recruiting board always seems to be moving around. I mean look at the kids this cycle that we have offered that have been followed up shortly with another major school offer? CWM and his staff are ahead of the game when it comes to finding players. Some other message boards are joking that we are becoming the scouting service for the Southeast. Which is obviously a dig but it gives me a peace of mind that we finally have the right guy(s) making the evaluations now.

So my point is that it appears to me that CWM and his staff are trying to re-build the foundation right now players that are at a low "bust" rate with the long term goal hoping that wins on the field helps them get back into the living rooms of the bigger fish down the road where they can really work their magic. I don't for a second believe that our staff is over-rated when it comes to recruiting.

In all seriousness, lets not overlook that he has done exactly what he was supposed to do when he was hired. He has improved the talent level of our team with the past 2 recruiting classes.

The 2016 class has guys like Bentley, Edwards, Dowdle, Thomas, King, K. Smith, Davis, Pollard, Hinson, Thompson, Hutcherson, Brunson, Dawkins, and Wonnum who have either played and contributed or are expected to play a lot of snaps this coming season.

The 2017 class has guys like O. Smith, Webb, Chalmers, Dickerson, Williams, Kinlaw, Johnson, Nixon, Sterling, Greene, Daley, Bowen, Thompson, S. Smith, and Terrell who can all potentially be playing a lot of snaps this year.

That is a lot of good players he has identified and signed so far and I am very interested and anxious to see what he can do in 2018, 2019, and 2020.
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Old 05-04-2017, 06:47 PM   #29
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Default Re: Way Too Early 2018 Class

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FSU.
I don't get it?
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Old 05-04-2017, 06:52 PM   #30
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I don't get it?
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Old predictions
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Old 05-04-2017, 06:53 PM   #31
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Default Re: Way Too Early 2018 Class

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I don't get it?
247Sports with 5 Expert Predictors all saying 100% Gamecocks.
Two words, Jay Graham.
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Old 05-04-2017, 07:29 PM   #32
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Default Re: Way Too Early 2018 Class

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I think a lot of people got a little over-hyped when we first assembled this staff because of the reputation of a lot of our coaches had prior to coming here. Muschamp, Robinson, Thompson, and McClendon were all former recruiter of the year winners. They have history of grabbing multiple big named talent. The problem is that those guys were selling programs like Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, Georgia, and Florida. Programs that pretty much can recruit based off name. Coach Muschamp has said that this has been a tougher job than he originally anticipated it being. He thought that Coach Spurrier had left him more to work with. I am in the belief that he thought Coach Spurrier had been capitalizing on the 4 year run he had. Little did he know that we were a sinking ship. He has said that he and his staff had to change their approach to be more of a complete rebuild than just adding a few playmakers and getting back to contending. Coach Thompson said he has never had to yell at a group of players more than he did our defensive line last year. Then you throw on top of that the 3-9 season prior to last season, Clemson winning the Natti, and Coach Muschamp's history at UF; its been an uphill battle ever since he got here. Heck, I'm sure 6-7 and the Clemson/USF losses are being used against us too. We need to face facts that it is HARD to get big name kids to want to come here right now and it isn't something we can blame the coaching staff for. They have been busting their ass ever since they got here. You also have to take into account that they have been "behind" in the 2016, 2017, and 2018 classes. Given the slew of offers that have gone out to 2019 and 2020 kids this year, I would venture to say that they are finally getting back in line with the competition.

So here is what I think they have done in the short term. They have put a big premium on evaluating kids in person. They are in a time where they can't have many "misses". They have got to be 100% sure that the prospect they sign can play at this level and WANT to be here at USC. Now, I'm not saying we are intentionally not recruiting big names. But I'm not sure that they are going to spend the resources on a kid that isn't really serious about us or has some red flags in their football evaluation. They can't afford the risk right now. So they are casting a wide net of offers (we are finally recruiting nationally) and turning over every stone possible to find players which is why the recruiting board always seems to be moving around. I mean look at the kids this cycle that we have offered that have been followed up shortly with another major school offer? CWM and his staff are ahead of the game when it comes to finding players. Some other message boards are joking that we are becoming the scouting service for the Southeast. Which is obviously a dig but it gives me a peace of mind that we finally have the right guy(s) making the evaluations now.

So my point is that it appears to me that CWM and his staff are trying to re-build the foundation right now players that are at a low "bust" rate with the long term goal hoping that wins on the field helps them get back into the living rooms of the bigger fish down the road where they can really work their magic. I don't for a second believe that our staff is over-rated when it comes to recruiting.

In all seriousness, lets not overlook that he has done exactly what he was supposed to do when he was hired. He has improved the talent level of our team with the past 2 recruiting classes.

The 2016 class has guys like Bentley, Edwards, Dowdle, Thomas, King, K. Smith, Davis, Pollard, Hinson, Thompson, Hutcherson, Brunson, Dawkins, and Wonnum who have either played and contributed or are expected to play a lot of snaps this coming season.

The 2017 class has guys like O. Smith, Webb, Chalmers, Dickerson, Williams, Kinlaw, Johnson, Nixon, Sterling, Greene, Daley, Bowen, Thompson, S. Smith, and Terrell who can all potentially be playing a lot of snaps this year.

That is a lot of good players he has identified and signed so far and I am very interested and anxious to see what he can do in 2018, 2019, and 2020.

Well said.
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Old 05-05-2017, 02:42 AM   #33
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Default Re: Way Too Early 2018 Class

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Under Muschamp its hard to do these kind of projections because our recruiting board is always changing. There are some guys we are high on one week and then they drop down the next because the staff identified a better prospect or said prospect committed elsewhere or had a red flag come up. I think we'll get a more clear picture after the camp season is over. But I'll take a stab anyway (assuming class of 25):

2 QB - Joyner, a guy that hasn't been offered yet
2 RB - Fenwick, Valentine
2 WR - Rush, Vann
1 TE - Schoenwald
5 OL - Benson, Manos, Iyama, Ericson (or Gwyn), Wonnum
5 DL (including BUCK) - Gerald, Barkley, Ojulari, Wynn, Williams
4 LB - Hollifield, Jones, Tindall, Louis
4 DB - Gilmore, Roderick, Dean, Crossen

I don't feel good about Valentine, Vann, Ericson, Ojulari, Wynn, Williams, Tindall, Louis, Gilmore, Roderick, Dean, or Crossen for various reasons but those are the names that stand out so far. I think our board is going to be vastly different after Summer camps. Surprisingly I feel pretty good about Wonnum. I think Joyner, Jones, Schoenwald, and Hollifield are silents.
We were pretty close. Only about 5 or so different. We were also pretty close on the tbs class projections.....242 compared to 239.
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Old 05-05-2017, 08:07 AM   #34
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Default Re: Way Too Early 2018 Class

Thanks for the analysis and thoughts, CoverTwo. Good stuff.

Spurrier's recruiting did not fall off from a team ranking standpoint, but it has become increasingly apparent that the evaluations were lacking. Too many busts and too many departures. Some of the issue was coaching staff turnover, some was getting lazy on the recruiting trail, not evaluating in person and just going by the star rating, and the "2-3 year" thing killed Spurrier's last class - that could have been special. A guy like Arden Key alone - he committed twice - would have solved a lot of our "quick twitch" problem (when I have a quick twitch problem, it usually requires medication).

I have been very impressed with the reloading at the skill positions in two years. I night be in the minority, but I believe the O Line will be good, LBs are in solid shape (problem is 2018 with no BAW/Skai), and the staff has done a good job of shoring up the D Backs. If Boom can find a way to generate a pass rush without a true pass rusher at DE, we will have something. D Line talent is not bad overall, if Boom can figure out a way to get some pressure from the Buck and LBs to make up for their shortcomings.
The good news is that we seem to have a lot of talented pass rushers at LB - Skai and BAW have done well, Bowen and Staley did good things in HS.
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Old 05-05-2017, 09:43 AM   #35
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Default Re: Way Too Early 2018 Class

Good news/bad news.....

What sucks about being in the SEC, you can have a top 15-20 class, and be about 8th or 9th in the SEC.... LOL

We all knew this WAS NOT going to be a quick fix........ we just need to keep progressing, build a solid foundation, and hope for that Marcus Lattimore/Clowney/Gilmore type player to show up ready to play.....
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Old 05-05-2017, 11:14 AM   #36
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Default Re: Way Too Early 2018 Class

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A lot of these are the same fans who are pissed we're not getting big recruits yet in the same breath will list dozens of reasons why we can't get or don't deserve to have big recruits. It's amusing exercise in futility.

BINGO!!!!!
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Old 05-05-2017, 11:17 AM   #37
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Default Re: Way Too Early 2018 Class

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Originally Posted by CoverTwo View Post
I think a lot of people got a little over-hyped when we first assembled this staff because of the reputation of a lot of our coaches had prior to coming here. Muschamp, Robinson, Thompson, and McClendon were all former recruiter of the year winners. They have history of grabbing multiple big named talent. The problem is that those guys were selling programs like Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, Georgia, and Florida. Programs that pretty much can recruit based off name. Coach Muschamp has said that this has been a tougher job than he originally anticipated it being. He thought that Coach Spurrier had left him more to work with. I am in the belief that he thought Coach Spurrier had been capitalizing on the 4 year run he had. Little did he know that we were a sinking ship. He has said that he and his staff had to change their approach to be more of a complete rebuild than just adding a few playmakers and getting back to contending. Coach Thompson said he has never had to yell at a group of players more than he did our defensive line last year. Then you throw on top of that the 3-9 season prior to last season, Clemson winning the Natti, and Coach Muschamp's history at UF; its been an uphill battle ever since he got here. Heck, I'm sure 6-7 and the Clemson/USF losses are being used against us too. We need to face facts that it is HARD to get big name kids to want to come here right now and it isn't something we can blame the coaching staff for. They have been busting their ass ever since they got here. You also have to take into account that they have been "behind" in the 2016, 2017, and 2018 classes. Given the slew of offers that have gone out to 2019 and 2020 kids this year, I would venture to say that they are finally getting back in line with the competition.

So here is what I think they have done in the short term. They have put a big premium on evaluating kids in person. They are in a time where they can't have many "misses". They have got to be 100% sure that the prospect they sign can play at this level and WANT to be here at USC. Now, I'm not saying we are intentionally not recruiting big names. But I'm not sure that they are going to spend the resources on a kid that isn't really serious about us or has some red flags in their football evaluation. They can't afford the risk right now. So they are casting a wide net of offers (we are finally recruiting nationally) and turning over every stone possible to find players which is why the recruiting board always seems to be moving around. I mean look at the kids this cycle that we have offered that have been followed up shortly with another major school offer? CWM and his staff are ahead of the game when it comes to finding players. Some other message boards are joking that we are becoming the scouting service for the Southeast. Which is obviously a dig but it gives me a peace of mind that we finally have the right guy(s) making the evaluations now.

So my point is that it appears to me that CWM and his staff are trying to re-build the foundation right now players that are at a low "bust" rate with the long term goal hoping that wins on the field helps them get back into the living rooms of the bigger fish down the road where they can really work their magic. I don't for a second believe that our staff is over-rated when it comes to recruiting.

In all seriousness, lets not overlook that he has done exactly what he was supposed to do when he was hired. He has improved the talent level of our team with the past 2 recruiting classes.

The 2016 class has guys like Bentley, Edwards, Dowdle, Thomas, King, K. Smith, Davis, Pollard, Hinson, Thompson, Hutcherson, Brunson, Dawkins, and Wonnum who have either played and contributed or are expected to play a lot of snaps this coming season.

The 2017 class has guys like O. Smith, Webb, Chalmers, Dickerson, Williams, Kinlaw, Johnson, Nixon, Sterling, Greene, Daley, Bowen, Thompson, S. Smith, and Terrell who can all potentially be playing a lot of snaps this year.

That is a lot of good players he has identified and signed so far and I am very interested and anxious to see what he can do in 2018, 2019, and 2020.


GREAT POST AND RIGHT ON THE MONEY!!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-05-2017, 01:31 PM   #38
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Default Re: Way Too Early 2018 Class

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Belk, Thomas, and Sandidge were all "gamecock leans" at one point We better hope to get Wynn.
Hate to burst your bubble, but Wynn isn't coming here.
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Old 06-07-2017, 03:59 AM   #39
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Default Re: Way Too Early 2018 Class

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Originally Posted by Three and Out View Post
Committed:
RB Fenwick
WR Rush
OL Lyama
OL Manos
OL Benson
DL Tyreek Johnson (gray shirt)
LB Jones
DB Roderick

In No Order:
QB Joyner
RB Valentine
TE Schoenwald
WR Vann
WR Hill
OL Wonnum
OL Gwyn
DL Gerald
DL Sandidge
DL Barkley
DL Ellis
LB Dax
LB Louis
LB Tindall
BUCK Williams
DB Horn
DB Dean
DB Gilmore

Moved Jones to committed.
Moved Roderick to committed

26 Total of which 5-6 are early enrollees. I put in this entire class into the TBS
Class Calculator and the calculated amount was 242.34 which would put us #15
in the 2017 rankings and #17 in the 2016 rankings.

Please feel free to add or subtract and make any and all other comments, etc.
With Jones and Roderick, that gives us 2 more quality players. I expect we'll get another 4-5 bymid July. I hope several others will jump onboard when Joyner commits.

As someone has already stated, we can't just expect to get the top players after the last couple of years. But with slow and steady growth showing improvement every year, our recruiting classes will also get better and some of the top players will start to sign up.
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:55 PM   #40
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Default Re: Way Too Early 2018 Class

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Originally Posted by Three and Out View Post
Committed:
RB Fenwick
WR Rush
OL Lyama
OL Manos
OL Benson
DL Tyreek Johnson (gray shirt)
LB Jones
DB Roderick
OL Campbell
QB Joyner
DL Barkley

In No Order:

RB Valentine
TE Schoenwald (missed on Schoenwald)
WR Vann
WR Hill
OL Wonnum
OL Gwyn
DL Gerald
DL Sandidge
DL Ellis
LB Dax
LB Louis
LB Tindall
BUCK Williams
DB Horn
DB Dean
DB Gilmore

Moved Jones to committed.
Moved Roderick to committed
Moved Joyner to committed
Moved Barkley to committed

26 Total of which 5-6 are early enrollees. I put in this entire class into the TBS
Class Calculator and the calculated amount was 242.34 which would put us #15
in the 2017 rankings and #17 in the 2016 rankings.

Please feel free to add or subtract and make any and all other comments, etc.
Added Campbell (didn't include him)
Missed on Schoenwald

Currently have 11 including T Johnson. Hopng to add 2-3 by the middle of July.

Last edited by Three and Out; 06-20-2017 at 11:15 PM..
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