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Old 10-11-2017, 02:42 PM   #81
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Default Re: SEC East...no seriously...we’re in it. No joke.

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Originally Posted by NAGamec0ckFan View Post
It's a race for second at this point. Georgia is clearly better than any other team in the east. And let's not get too excited just because we beat Arkansas, they're not a very good team.
True. But at this stage I would take second or third (behind UK) because it would mean we have passed Florida and Tennessee.
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Old 10-11-2017, 03:03 PM   #82
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Default Re: SEC East...no seriously...we’re in it. No joke.

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Dude, Clemson is good and it's ok to admit it. They have a ton of defensive talent and lots of weapons on offense. We probably won't beat them this year but we are rebuilding. They are the #2 team in the country for a reason...
I never said they were not good. I said that we had a better chance to beat them than UGA. And I gave my reasons, one of which is obvious - there is about a TD swing between being at home and being on the road. So Clemson could be better than UGA and still be an easier win.

"They are the #2 team in the country for a reason..." which is that they are defending national champions, so they started near the top (#5), and they have held serve to date. They have some nice Ws, but they also were tied with one of the worst teams in the FBS, Boston College, in the 4th Quarter. And they looked pedestrian against Wake (I repeat - Wake). Both games at home.

Gotrice, you say that we have no chance against Clemson because "the talent gap is that substantial". I did not say that we would win or have a great chance to win (I would put it at about 30%), just that we had a better chance of beating them than UGA.

So.........you are citing talent? UGA's composite recruiting ranking for the last four years is 7.5, Clemson is 14.5. UGA has more talent than Clemson, plus the home field advantage, is undefeated like Clemson, and has been more impressive in their victories this year. Again, the only reason that Clemson is ranked that high is they started out high due to 2016 (Preseason #5, UGA was #15).

I concede that Clemson is very good. But - beating UGA will be tougher, IMO, than beating Clemson.
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Old 10-11-2017, 03:57 PM   #83
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Default Re: SEC East...no seriously...we’re in it. No joke.

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I never said they were not good. I said that we had a better chance to beat them than UGA. And I gave my reasons, one of which is obvious - there is about a TD swing between being at home and being on the road. So Clemson could be better than UGA and still be an easier win.

"They are the #2 team in the country for a reason..." which is that they are defending national champions, so they started near the top (#5), and they have held serve to date. They have some nice Ws, but they also were tied with one of the worst teams in the FBS, Boston College, in the 4th Quarter. And they looked pedestrian against Wake (I repeat - Wake). Both games at home.

Gotrice, you say that we have no chance against Clemson because "the talent gap is that substantial". I did not say that we would win or have a great chance to win (I would put it at about 30%), just that we had a better chance of beating them than UGA.

So.........you are citing talent? UGA's composite recruiting ranking for the last four years is 7.5, Clemson is 14.5. UGA has more talent than Clemson, plus the home field advantage, is undefeated like Clemson, and has been more impressive in their victories this year. Again, the only reason that Clemson is ranked that high is they started out high due to 2016 (Preseason #5, UGA was #15).

I concede that Clemson is very good. But - beating UGA will be tougher, IMO, than beating Clemson.
Clemson also looked suspect against Troy and NC St last year at home but went on to win the Natty.
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Old 10-11-2017, 04:39 PM   #84
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Default Re: SEC East...no seriously...we’re in it. No joke.

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I never said they were not good. I said that we had a better chance to beat them than UGA. And I gave my reasons, one of which is obvious - there is about a TD swing between being at home and being on the road. So Clemson could be better than UGA and still be an easier win.

"They are the #2 team in the country for a reason..." which is that they are defending national champions, so they started near the top (#5), and they have held serve to date. They have some nice Ws, but they also were tied with one of the worst teams in the FBS, Boston College, in the 4th Quarter. And they looked pedestrian against Wake (I repeat - Wake). Both games at home.

Gotrice, you say that we have no chance against Clemson because "the talent gap is that substantial". I did not say that we would win or have a great chance to win (I would put it at about 30%), just that we had a better chance of beating them than UGA.

So.........you are citing talent? UGA's composite recruiting ranking for the last four years is 7.5, Clemson is 14.5. UGA has more talent than Clemson, plus the home field advantage, is undefeated like Clemson, and has been more impressive in their victories this year. Again, the only reason that Clemson is ranked that high is they started out high due to 2016 (Preseason #5, UGA was #15).

I concede that Clemson is very good. But - beating UGA will be tougher, IMO, than beating Clemson.
Clemson hasn't oversigned, and has actually gone sub 20 in some of those years in terms of commits. UGA has oversigned and gone over 30 in that time frame. Clemson's hit rate under Swinney has been ridiculous, and not just with high end talent he has been what Spurrier did so well here and found some under the radar kids that turned into big time players as well. Richt, and now Smart's, hit rate hasn't been as high. I'll take that Clemson roster any day of the week if I had to choose between the two. That said both have pretty damn stacked rosters which is why UGA is the prohibitive favorite at this point in an East that has been less than impressive.
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:16 PM   #85
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Default Re: SEC East...no seriously...we’re in it. No joke.

Just throwing this in, After a bye, most SEC teams win.
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:54 PM   #86
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Default Re: SEC East...no seriously...we’re in it. No joke.

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I never said they were not good. I said that we had a better chance to beat them than UGA. And I gave my reasons, one of which is obvious - there is about a TD swing between being at home and being on the road. So Clemson could be better than UGA and still be an easier win.

"They are the #2 team in the country for a reason..." which is that they are defending national champions, so they started near the top (#5), and they have held serve to date. They have some nice Ws, but they also were tied with one of the worst teams in the FBS, Boston College, in the 4th Quarter. And they looked pedestrian against Wake (I repeat - Wake). Both games at home.

Gotrice, you say that we have no chance against Clemson because "the talent gap is that substantial". I did not say that we would win or have a great chance to win (I would put it at about 30%), just that we had a better chance of beating them than UGA.

So.........you are citing talent? UGA's composite recruiting ranking for the last four years is 7.5, Clemson is 14.5. UGA has more talent than Clemson, plus the home field advantage, is undefeated like Clemson, and has been more impressive in their victories this year. Again, the only reason that Clemson is ranked that high is they started out high due to 2016 (Preseason #5, UGA was #15).

I concede that Clemson is very good. But - beating UGA will be tougher, IMO, than beating Clemson.
Very logical and positive post. I admire your insight!
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Old 10-12-2017, 08:19 AM   #87
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Default Re: SEC East...no seriously...we’re in it. No joke.

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Clemson also looked suspect against Troy and NC St last year at home but went on to win the Natty.
They also got the benefit of a missed call against Troy that turned that game, and a missed chip shot FG against NC State, plus a bonehead play at the end of the Lullville game. If any of the three games had gone the other way, Clemson is not in the playoffs.

Again - they are very good but not that good. You guys can feel free to put them on a pedestal and make them out to be invincible, but they ain't.
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Old 10-12-2017, 08:34 AM   #88
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Default Re: SEC East...no seriously...we’re in it. No joke.

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Clemson hasn't oversigned, and has actually gone sub 20 in some of those years in terms of commits. UGA has oversigned and gone over 30 in that time frame. Clemson's hit rate under Swinney has been ridiculous, and not just with high end talent he has been what Spurrier did so well here and found some under the radar kids that turned into big time players as well. Richt, and now Smart's, hit rate hasn't been as high. I'll take that Clemson roster any day of the week if I had to choose between the two. That said both have pretty damn stacked rosters which is why UGA is the prohibitive favorite at this point in an East that has been less than impressive.
You are explaining two different recruiting philosophies.

UGA does not oversign - at the end of the day, they are limited in their LOIs and number of recruits per year, which is 25. If they brought in 30 in a calendar year, it is because they signed 20 the previous year and can count back 5.

But both UGA and South Carolina cull non-contributors, allowing them to max out with 25 players in most years. Which is a smart move. If you want to find 15 good apples, your chances are better in a basket of 25 than a basket of 20. And you can take the extra 10 apples and give them to someone that can use them to make cider (in this case, let the players transfer to a school where they can play). Using that philosophy, you will have even more talent and more under the radar gems.

And there is this - the recruiting services don't rate teams based on 30 recruits, or in some cases even 25. Rivals does the top 20, so Clemson is not really getting penalized for smaller classes (Scout does 25, ESPN and 247 Sports do not publish their formulas but their ratings are closer to Rivals, so they appear to limit the number of recruits also). And Clemson gets their high-rated recruits counted twice with bonus points - but are still just getting one player.

And UGA still recruits much better, per the recruiting services.
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Old 10-12-2017, 02:29 PM   #89
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Default Re: SEC East...no seriously...we’re in it. No joke.

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They also got the benefit of a missed call against Troy that turned that game, and a missed chip shot FG against NC State, plus a bonehead play at the end of the Lullville game. If any of the three games had gone the other way, Clemson is not in the playoffs.

Again - they are very good but not that good. You guys can feel free to put them on a pedestal and make them out to be invincible, but they ain't.
Everything you listed is true and I forgot to mention the UL game. Basically last year they had the horseshoe shoved so far up their rears that EVERYTHING went their way.
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Old 10-12-2017, 03:33 PM   #90
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Default Re: SEC East...no seriously...we’re in it. No joke.

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You are explaining two different recruiting philosophies.

UGA does not oversign - at the end of the day, they are limited in their LOIs and number of recruits per year, which is 25. If they brought in 30 in a calendar year, it is because they signed 20 the previous year and can count back 5.

But both UGA and South Carolina cull non-contributors, allowing them to max out with 25 players in most years. Which is a smart move. If you want to find 15 good apples, your chances are better in a basket of 25 than a basket of 20. And you can take the extra 10 apples and give them to someone that can use them to make cider (in this case, let the players transfer to a school where they can play). Using that philosophy, you will have even more talent and more under the radar gems.

And there is this - the recruiting services don't rate teams based on 30 recruits, or in some cases even 25. Rivals does the top 20, so Clemson is not really getting penalized for smaller classes (Scout does 25, ESPN and 247 Sports do not publish their formulas but their ratings are closer to Rivals, so they appear to limit the number of recruits also). And Clemson gets their high-rated recruits counted twice with bonus points - but are still just getting one player.

And UGA still recruits much better, per the recruiting services.
Clemson has brought in less players in the last 4 cycles than UGA by double digits, part of the reason for that is a higher hit rate which equates to less attrition. That makes a very big difference as far as recruiting rankings go. Stanford generally has deflated rankings due to the same reason. If you don't have much attrition you can't sign 25 per year because you would be 15 over the total limit in a 4 year period before you get to awarding standout walk-ons scholarships. As for the limits that Rivals/247/ESPN use that decreases the amount of impact but far from eliminates the impact the more kids you sign the higher up your class is all that is ranked. Let's use that 30 man UGA class for example, they got to have the top 2/3rds of their class ranked and that's going to lead to an advantage since it means most of the fliers they took on lower rated players weren't impacting the rankings while a team that took 20 would have their fliers negatively impact the rankings.
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Old 10-12-2017, 03:57 PM   #91
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Default Re: SEC East...no seriously...we’re in it. No joke.

It doesn't really matter who wins the East. No-one is going to beat Bama from the east.
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Old 10-12-2017, 04:00 PM   #92
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Default Re: SEC East...no seriously...we’re in it. No joke.

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It doesn't really matter who wins the East. No-one is going to beat Bama from the east.
Sadly I have to agree. I think the only team that wouldn't get absolutely punked by Bama in an embarrassing way is UGA, that said I'd rather get punked by Bama than be sitting at home so if some how some way we pull it off and punch our ticket to ATL I'll be a happy man.
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Old 10-12-2017, 04:16 PM   #93
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Default Re: SEC East...no seriously...we’re in it. No joke.

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No. UGA would have to go on a complete nosedive
true.. it's slightly a bigger mountain than us beating bama in 2010...
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Old 10-12-2017, 04:31 PM   #94
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Default Re: SEC East...no seriously...we’re in it. No joke.

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true.. it's slightly a bigger mountain than us beating bama in 2010...
More than slightly bigger, we lack the absolute game changers that we had in 2010. That 2010 team was scary good and when Garcia was locked in we were borderline impossible to stop. Muschamp is elevating our talent level but we aren't to that point yet and still have a ways to go to get there.
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Old 10-12-2017, 04:37 PM   #95
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Default Re: SEC East...no seriously...we’re in it. No joke.

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More than slightly bigger, we lack the absolute game changers that we had in 2010. That 2010 team was scary good and when Garcia was locked in we were borderline impossible to stop. Muschamp is elevating our talent level but we aren't to that point yet and still have a ways to go to get there.
I was totally tongue in cheek, and I completely agree we have a low shot at beating UGA (though we hung with virtually the same team last year until the end and we are better). That said, bigger upsets HAVE happened, and this team will sometimes sneak up and win a game they shouldnt on occasion... upsets happen.. I'lll be cheering.

Our remaining realistic wins this season are UT, Vandy, Wofford, possibly UF. Those are all winnable games I think...I'll be happy with 8 wins this season.
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:43 PM   #96
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Default Re: SEC East...no seriously...we’re in it. No joke.

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I was totally tongue in cheek, and I completely agree we have a low shot at beating UGA (though we hung with virtually the same team last year until the end and we are better). That said, bigger upsets HAVE happened, and this team will sometimes sneak up and win a game they shouldnt on occasion... upsets happen.. I'lll be cheering.

Our remaining realistic wins this season are UT, Vandy, Wofford, possibly UF. Those are all winnable games I think...I'll be happy with 8 wins this season.
I'll be happy with a 7 win season and ecstatic with an 8 win season.
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Old 10-12-2017, 11:00 PM   #97
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Default Re: SEC East...no seriously...we’re in it. No joke.

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Originally Posted by gotrice? View Post
Clemson has brought in less players in the last 4 cycles than UGA by double digits, part of the reason for that is a higher hit rate which equates to less attrition. That makes a very big difference as far as recruiting rankings go. Stanford generally has deflated rankings due to the same reason. If you don't have much attrition you can't sign 25 per year because you would be 15 over the total limit in a 4 year period before you get to awarding standout walk-ons scholarships. As for the limits that Rivals/247/ESPN use that decreases the amount of impact but far from eliminates the impact the more kids you sign the higher up your class is all that is ranked. Let's use that 30 man UGA class for example, they got to have the top 2/3rds of their class ranked and that's going to lead to an advantage since it means most of the fliers they took on lower rated players weren't impacting the rankings while a team that took 20 would have their fliers negatively impact the rankings.
Do players stay at Clemson because they are all good? Or do they just not push kids to transfer?

There are plenty of players on Clemson's roster that have been around for a while and have not contributed much. But there are only so many starters and back-ups, so Clemson allows the non-contributors to stay around.

So, no, Clemson does not have a higher hit rate. And even if the players at the bottom of UGA's recruiting class are "fliers" (most are not), those are the ones that transfer out and are replaced.

And why does a team that is only recruiting 20 players have to take "fliers"? With a class that small, can't you find 20 good ones?

UGA is getting better players - the recruiting rankings show it. What is Clemson's best position? QB? As highly rated as Hunter Johnson is, Eason was ranked higher. Jake Fromm is as highly rated as any other QB on on Clemson's roster. Clemson has Trevor Lawrence coming in, but UGA just got a QB that is the #1 recruit per ESPN.

I don't mind giving Clemson credit when it is due, but UGA recruits better. Always has.
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Old 10-12-2017, 11:05 PM   #98
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Default Re: SEC East...no seriously...we’re in it. No joke.

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Originally Posted by OscarTheGrouch View Post
I was totally tongue in cheek, and I completely agree we have a low shot at beating UGA (though we hung with virtually the same team last year until the end and we are better). That said, bigger upsets HAVE happened, and this team will sometimes sneak up and win a game they shouldnt on occasion... upsets happen.. I'lll be cheering.

Our remaining realistic wins this season are UT, Vandy, Wofford, possibly UF. Those are all winnable games I think...I'll be happy with 8 wins this season.
We hung with UGA last year and are better, but so is UGA, and the game is at their place. Eason was the weak spot last year in our game - Fromm makes fewer mistakes and has made them better. It will be a tough game.

I still think that Smart can be an equalizer - he makes a lot moves that belie his last name. But he seems to have learned a few things in his second year.
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Old 10-13-2017, 10:04 AM   #99
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Default Re: SEC East...no seriously...we’re in it. No joke.

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Originally Posted by Ace Dilcock View Post
We hung with UGA last year and are better, but so is UGA, and the game is at their place. Eason was the weak spot last year in our game - Fromm makes fewer mistakes and has made them better. It will be a tough game.

I still think that Smart can be an equalizer - he makes a lot moves that belie his last name. But he seems to have learned a few things in his second year.
No doubt. UGA is a fantastic team, probably play off worthy. It's entirely possible that Smart was what made Bama bama, and they will start to fall off here soon.

But if I had to pick an upset it would be UGA more than the team from the upstate.... We always seem to play UGA closer.
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Old 10-13-2017, 10:20 AM   #100
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Default Re: SEC East...no seriously...we’re in it. No joke.

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Do players stay at Clemson because they are all good? Or do they just not push kids to transfer?
No. They stay because pay is on par with the NFL.
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