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Old 07-08-2014, 06:06 PM   #1
TS-45 Gamecock
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Default Does anyone manage people?

Was not sure where to put this so I will stick it here...

Does anyone manage alot of people? Let's say between 50 and 75 folks. Right now I have 64.

Some days I want to pull my freaking hair out.

The team I manage ranges from ages 20 to 60. Male and Female. Permanent and contract workers. It is getting to a point where you can't say anything without offending them. I will give you an example:

I had a worker install an incorrect item that caused the production line to stop for 12 minutes. Those 12 minutes equal roughly $50,000 bucks. Some serious cash. My conversation went like this. Keep in mind that the person is required to inspect the item prior to installing the part based on the standard work procedures.

Me: Did you check to make sure you had the correct part?

Them: No, I only have to check the first one in the batch?

Me: That is not correct, your standard is to check them all 100%.

Them: No, I only have to check the first one.

Me: That is not the standard

Them: Yes it is. (At this point I know they are lying)

Me: Show me.

Them: Well, I was trained to only check the first one when I first started. The standard must be new.

Me: The current standard has been posted for the last 6 months.

Them: Well, I only need to check the first part.

Me: Clearly that is not good enough because we had the wrong part and a potential of wrong parts is why we have to 100% verify the correct part. If we don't, 12 minutes of dowtime can be the result.

Them: Well, I found it after the 3rd wrong part and told someone and anyway, the line should not have been down for 12 minutes. They could have fixed the situation a lot quicker than that. They were slow to fix the issue. They shoud have never had that much downtime.

Me: We never would have been in that position if you have followed your standard work. The root cause is that YOU installed the wrong part.

Them: Yeah but they could have fixed it alot quicked than 12 minutes.

Me: This conversation is over.........

Of course I get taken to HR because I am mean.

I have had converstations like this over and over and over again. It was like I was talking to a telephone pole. Shifting blame and taking no responsibility for anything. Is this like it is everywhere? I am curious if this is just my company or are companies workers like this everywhere.

Dang it. I appreciate the work those guys do and it is not easy work to begin with but shouldn't a company have expectations of it's workers.

Rant over... Thanks for listening..
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Old 07-08-2014, 06:09 PM   #2
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Default Re: Does anyone manage people?

I have managed others in the past. Blame shifting is quite common.
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Old 07-08-2014, 06:18 PM   #3
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Default Re: Does anyone manage people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TS-45 Gamecock View Post
Was not sure where to put this so I will stick it here...

Does anyone manage alot of people? Let's say between 50 and 75 folks. Right now I have 64.

Some days I want to pull my freaking hair out.

The team I manage ranges from ages 20 to 60. Male and Female. Permanent and contract workers. It is getting to a point where you can't say anything without offending them. I will give you an example:

I had a worker install an incorrect item that caused the production line to stop for 12 minutes. Those 12 minutes equal roughly $50,000 bucks. Some serious cash. My conversation went like this. Keep in mind that the person is required to inspect the item prior to installing the part based on the standard work procedures.

Me: Did you check to make sure you had the correct part?

Them: No, I only have to check the first one in the batch?

Me: That is not correct, your standard is to check them all 100%.

Them: No, I only have to check the first one.

Me: That is not the standard

Them: Yes it is. (At this point I know they are lying)

Me: Show me.

Them: Well, I was trained to only check the first one when I first started. The standard must be new.

Me: The current standard has been posted for the last 6 months.

Them: Well, I only need to check the first part.

Me: Clearly that is not good enough because we had the wrong part and a potential of wrong parts is why we have to 100% verify the correct part. If we don't, 12 minutes of dowtime can be the result.

Them: Well, I found it after the 3rd wrong part and told someone and anyway, the line should not have been down for 12 minutes. They could have fixed the situation a lot quicker than that. They were slow to fix the issue. They shoud have never had that much downtime.

Me: We never would have been in that position if you have followed your standard work. The root cause is that YOU installed the wrong part.

Them: Yeah but they could have fixed it alot quicked than 12 minutes.

Me: This conversation is over.........

Of course I get taken to HR because I am mean.

I have had converstations like this over and over and over again. It was like I was talking to a telephone pole. Shifting blame and taking no responsibility for anything. Is this like it is everywhere? I am curious if this is just my company or are companies workers like this everywhere.

Dang it. I appreciate the work those guys do and it is not easy work to begin with but shouldn't a company have expectations of it's workers.

Rant over... Thanks for listening..
Do you have the ability to write people up for any of this stuff? Based on your conversation I believe you had:

- Insubordination
- Failure to take responsibility
- Workplace disruption

And that's before taking into account the loss of productivity.
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Old 07-08-2014, 06:20 PM   #4
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Default Re: Does anyone manage people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TS-45 Gamecock View Post
Was not sure where to put this so I will stick it here...

Does anyone manage alot of people? Let's say between 50 and 75 folks. Right now I have 64.

Some days I want to pull my freaking hair out.

The team I manage ranges from ages 20 to 60. Male and Female. Permanent and contract workers. It is getting to a point where you can't say anything without offending them. I will give you an example:

I had a worker install an incorrect item that caused the production line to stop for 12 minutes. Those 12 minutes equal roughly $50,000 bucks. Some serious cash. My conversation went like this. Keep in mind that the person is required to inspect the item prior to installing the part based on the standard work procedures.

Me: Did you check to make sure you had the correct part?

Them: No, I only have to check the first one in the batch?

Me: That is not correct, your standard is to check them all 100%.

Them: No, I only have to check the first one.

Me: That is not the standard

Them: Yes it is. (At this point I know they are lying)

Me: Show me.

Them: Well, I was trained to only check the first one when I first started. The standard must be new.

Me: The current standard has been posted for the last 6 months.

Them: Well, I only need to check the first part.

Me: Clearly that is not good enough because we had the wrong part and a potential of wrong parts is why we have to 100% verify the correct part. If we don't, 12 minutes of dowtime can be the result.

Them: Well, I found it after the 3rd wrong part and told someone and anyway, the line should not have been down for 12 minutes. They could have fixed the situation a lot quicker than that. They were slow to fix the issue. They shoud have never had that much downtime.

Me: We never would have been in that position if you have followed your standard work. The root cause is that YOU installed the wrong part.

Them: Yeah but they could have fixed it alot quicked than 12 minutes.

Me: This conversation is over.........

Of course I get taken to HR because I am mean.

I have had converstations like this over and over and over again. It was like I was talking to a telephone pole. Shifting blame and taking no responsibility for anything. Is this like it is everywhere? I am curious if this is just my company or are companies workers like this everywhere.

Dang it. I appreciate the work those guys do and it is not easy work to begin with but shouldn't a company have expectations of it's workers.

Rant over... Thanks for listening..
all the things which you are discussing should be written so everyone understands what their jobs are and the processes for them to do their jobs correctly. perhaps monthly meetings would be a good idea, not to blame anyone but to bring up different issues employees are having difficulty with......also, I recommend quarterly bonuses for each employee that does their job correctly.....I've always found production bonuses to be very effective.
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Old 07-08-2014, 06:22 PM   #5
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Default Re: Does anyone manage people?

i only managed 20 people in my previous job and I wanted to pull my hair out daily. I was their immediate supervisor and I had 3 managers above me that did absolutely nothing to deal with a situation I informed them of one. So I would handle it and then I would have to deal with my management when they said I embarrassed them. deal with the situation at the time. embarrassing in front of other employees. Pull them of the floor then I embarrassed them by singling them out. God I am so glad I don't do that anymore

ps
also I didn't have the ability to do write ups but my bosses would not do them either
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Old 07-08-2014, 06:23 PM   #6
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Default Re: Does anyone manage people?

Does your company have any sort of disciplinary policy? You have to be able to hold people accountable somehow.
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Old 07-08-2014, 06:37 PM   #7
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Default Re: Does anyone manage people?

Get on your knees and thank God you don't have to work on that line ..

Last edited by Take-a-Knee; 07-08-2014 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 07-08-2014, 08:03 PM   #8
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Default Re: Does anyone manage people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by b381l View Post
all the things which you are discussing should be written so everyone understands what their jobs are and the processes for them to do their jobs correctly. perhaps monthly meetings would be a good idea, not to blame anyone but to bring up different issues employees are having difficulty with......also, I recommend quarterly bonuses for each employee that does their job correctly.....I've always found production bonuses to be very effective.

You want to give bonuses to people for doing their job? Are you also in the trophy for everyone camp?
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Old 07-08-2014, 08:15 PM   #9
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Default Re: Does anyone manage people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUSCMike View Post
You want to give bonuses to people for doing their job? Are you also in the trophy for everyone camp?
Quote:
Originally Posted by b381l View Post
all the things which you are discussing should be written so everyone understands what their jobs are and the processes for them to do their jobs correctly. perhaps monthly meetings would be a good idea, not to blame anyone but to bring up different issues employees are having difficulty with......also, I recommend quarterly bonuses for each employee that does their job correctly.....I've always found production bonuses to be very effective.
Gotta go with Mike on this one. This is how you end up with people making too much money for doing a so so job. Maybe a small annual bonus if it's deserved. Or bigger if it can be proven they are making the company considerably more money than their peers.
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Old 07-08-2014, 08:15 PM   #10
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Default Re: Does anyone manage people?

Sounds like your HR department doesn't care about the company losing $50,000 so I'm not sure there's much you can do.

Have you taken a look around lately? Watched the news? This country is more politically correct than it has ever been and more pussified than it has ever been, so it makes sense that your company is as well.


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Old 07-08-2014, 08:26 PM   #11
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Default Re: Does anyone manage people?

I've managed people for about 20 years. Here is what I've learned - people are babies.

If that standard is written down anywhere so that you have evidence that they should have known, then you have no choice but to write them up. Of course, you need to run the write up by hr first, just to make sure that they are OK with the wording. The key is making sure that everything is written down. If it isn't, then you need to have quality work instructions that everyone is trained on and has signed off on. I would imagine, though, that you have this. If not, you wouldn't be ISO certified. And that's another issue in itself.

As a side note, you can not effectively manage that many people. No matter who you are. I would make sure that my boss understood this.
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Old 07-08-2014, 09:00 PM   #12
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Default Re: Does anyone manage people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trapper82 View Post
Do you have the ability to write people up for any of this stuff? Based on your conversation I believe you had:

- Insubordination
- Failure to take responsibility
- Workplace disruption

And that's before taking into account the loss of productivity.
^
I was a production manager and managed groups of about 25-30 people
for over 15 years. Over the years I learned that you can not have too
much documention, and as long as you keep good records of conversations
and disciplinary actions, you can never go wrong. ... I learned the hard
way, BUT I LEARNED. I also learned very quickly that regardless of how
well you like one person, or how much you dislike others, YOU TREAT
THEM ALL 100% THE SAME. Even if you think it's a "casual" step into
my office and let's talk, kind of thing, make sure you type up what you
talked about, and why. If you have to eventually terminate someone
and you went through all the correct verbal and written reprimands, it
always helps with the HR people And possibly the Labor board people if
you have spoken with this person a few times for the same problem or
several other problems before going through the written / documented
warnings.
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Old 07-08-2014, 09:04 PM   #13
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Default Re: Does anyone manage people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottK View Post
Sounds like your HR department doesn't care about the company losing $50,000 so I'm not sure there's much you can do.

Have you taken a look around lately? Watched the news? This country is more politically correct than it has ever been and more pussified than it has ever been, so it makes sense that your company is as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I got out of management and into more of a Tech / Support role for the
same company in 2000. It was the best decision I ever made. I'm still
doing that kind of thing with the company I'm with now. I can't imagine
what has changed since 2000. Just looking at the shape of the country
now, I wouldn't dream of going back into a management position unless
I owned a small business myself.
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Old 07-08-2014, 09:21 PM   #14
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Default Re: Does anyone manage people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurticus View Post
^
I was a production manager and managed groups of about 25-30 people
for over 15 years. Over thehavers I learned that you can not have too
much documention, and as long as you keep good records of conversations
and disciplinary actions, you can never go wrong. ... I learned the hard
way, BUT I LEARNED. I also learned very quickly that regardless of how
well you like one person, or how much you dislike others, YOU TREAT
THEM ALL 100% THE SAME. Even if you think it's a "casual" step into
my office and let's talk, kind of thing, make sure you type up what you
talked about, and why. If you have to eventually terminate someone
and you went through all the correct verbal and written reprimands, it
always helps with the HR people And possibly the Labor board people if
you have spoken with this person a few times for the same problem or
several other problems before going through the written / documented
warnings.
I learned the hard way too. Keep detailed notes, bring in other managers on folks you know are going to be difficult. I have never had HR problems when writing folks up or taking desciplinary action because I tend to be anal about documentation. My issue is desciplinary action rarely results in behavior change.

Also, if I have to take it to a point for different levels of desciplinary action, haven't I failed as a manager?
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Old 07-08-2014, 10:08 PM   #15
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Default Re: Does anyone manage people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TS-45 Gamecock View Post
I learned the hard way too. Keep detailed notes, bring in other managers on folks you know are going to be difficult. I have never had HR problems when writing folks up or taking desciplinary action because I tend to be anal about documentation. My issue is desciplinary action rarely results in behavior change.

Also, if I have to take it to a point for different levels of desciplinary action, haven't I failed as a manager?
I was a sales manager for a large furniture retailer in my previous life. I had roughly 20-30 direct reports at any given time, depending on attrition, ect. Sixty something direct reports seems like it would be a bit overwhelming.

How serious are formal write ups taken at your business? If you don't have their attention after a final documented incident is issued, there is nothing you can do but send the employee on their way. Regardless, there has to be some accountability for a $50K mistake.

As b381l mentioned, perhaps scheduled meetings would provide a good platform to discuss company protocol. Having the incident/s documented could help you if your Manager/Director asks why there was such a costly mistake on your watch. Best of luck.
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Old 07-08-2014, 10:28 PM   #16
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Default Re: Does anyone manage people?

In a life some time ago I had to share opening/closing responsibility with a team of 6 guys. My direct charge was 20 my indirect was 130. Planning, meetings, reviews, more planning seem to be endless but control was the end result. People back them were not as twitchy as now. Then your biggest fear was having a problem with pregnant women, a disable person or a off color remark. No matter what happened there was a notebook full of forms to fill out and it came down to the complainants own personal signed copy of code of behavior and outlined duties. By the time it was all over most just gave up some did not and there in lies the fight we all have to face as managers. Some people are just not going to give it there all those are the ones that are the hardest to remove. After it is all said and done you have to be tougher than that crowd.
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Old 07-08-2014, 11:00 PM   #17
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Default Re: Does anyone manage people?

I manage large groups of people. Personally, I think you're missing the point. This should not have been the first time you've clearly set your expectations directly to that employee and have inspected him doing his job sometime in the last six months. And he needs on the spot feedback about his performance and what you want him to stop/start/continue to do. And have more regular "touches" with your employee where you observe and praise or observe and correct. More communication in your organization.
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Old 07-09-2014, 01:46 AM   #18
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Default Re: Does anyone manage people?

I've managed three waffle houses in the upstate for the past 4 years. With the workforce here I'm more of a babysitter than a manager. It's been a good experience but I wouldn't wish it on any one. Which is why I stepped down last month and going back to get my MBA in the fall...
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Old 07-09-2014, 06:50 AM   #19
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Default Re: Does anyone manage people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurticus View Post
^
I was a production manager and managed groups of about 25-30 people
for over 15 years. Over the years I learned that you can not have too
much documention, and as long as you keep good records of conversations
and disciplinary actions, you can never go wrong.

^^
This!

To add to that, one of the things we do in the military, or at least the Army, is initial and periodic counseling. When a soldier is new to the unit, the immediate supervisor should conduct an initial counseling that details all of the expected behavior. In addition to that, each soldier is furnished with a copy of the unit's SOP to reference should there be a question on what is and is not supposed to be done.

Anytime a violation occurs, the soldier is counseled, and the appropriate paperwork is signed by both me and the soldier. I then provide one copy to the soldier being counseled, keep one copy for my records, forward one copy to the training NCO, and send the original to my supervisor. I even sat down one time with a JAG officer to ensure that I was writing things the correct way, and he gave me some very valuable pointers on ensuring every regulation was followed to the T.

Maybe that is something you can try to implement in the future should there ever be another situation like the one you quoted.
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Old 07-09-2014, 08:05 AM   #20
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Default Re: Does anyone manage people?

Similar scenarios happen all the time in my line of work--the wonderful world of teaching know-it-all high school students.
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