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Old 09-10-2017, 02:40 PM   #1
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Wink Refuting the Ball Calls!!

As we all know, the officials had a very poor game last night, and there is a thread dedicated to that already, but I just wanted to provide some solid evidence that the unexplainable blown calls that should've gone our way should have, in fact, gone our way.

One of the reasons I hate Mizzou's field is they have stationary, low positioned cameras, and thus the angles are very poor and you can't see the teams very well because the camera is too low. This is possibly one of the reasons we didn't get the 4th down (non) stop reviewed and overturned. Nevertheless that call should've got our way, despite the poor angles.



On the 4th down that should have been a stop, the officials didn't even bring out the sticks, despite how close the call was. In this first screenshot, the wide shot angle, you see that the marker (not the sticks, the sticks are only there to tell the down, not mark where the first down is. The 1st down marker is the little orange pad on the ground) is a couple feet past the 32 yard line. You can see the tick mark of the 32 yard line, then a few feet past that is the marker on the ground.

Now, in the next screenshot we have the point of contact. This is basically the farthest forward that the Mizzou RB went before he went backwards. You can't see the ball itself, but you can see the 32 yard line, marked by the vertical blue line, and then approximately where the 1st down marker is, based on the first wide angle shot (the yellow vertical line). In any case, even if the Mizzou running back extended the ball (it looked like it was tucked, not extended), the entire pile is infront of where that 1st down marker is. It looks like the pile never really goes past the 32 yard line, and the running back doesn't look like he ever makes it to the 32 at all.

Hell, maybe it was a first down because the camera angles suck, but based on the angles we do have and the way we stopped them up, that more than deserved the sticks to be brought out. Pretty ridiculous call.

In the last screenshot we have the Ty'Son Williams (non) touchdown. As you can see, his left foot is clearly in bounds, his right knee is bent upwards and the right foot is off the ground, and the ball clearly breaks the plane. It's one of the better angles of the night, and the official could see it perfectly. I was very surprised that this one was not overturned, and even more surprised at the speed at which they confirmed it out of bounds.


Anyway, it was a horrible officiating night. But who freaking cares, we won. I just wanted to refute the crappy calls they made.
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Old 09-10-2017, 02:56 PM   #2
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Default Re: Refuting the Ball Calls!!

Good work........
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Old 09-10-2017, 03:05 PM   #3
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Default Re: Refuting the Ball Calls!!

Im glad you posted that because I thought I was missing something. I get on the field it may be hard to see everything and you are going to make mistakes but I thought both should be overturned in the review booth. Pretty terrible if you ask me.
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Old 09-11-2017, 08:00 AM   #4
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Default Re: Refuting the Ball Calls!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2k15 View Post
As we all know, the officials had a very poor game last night, and there is a thread dedicated to that already, but I just wanted to provide some solid evidence that the unexplainable blown calls that should've gone our way should have, in fact, gone our way.

One of the reasons I hate Mizzou's field is they have stationary, low positioned cameras, and thus the angles are very poor and you can't see the teams very well because the camera is too low. This is possibly one of the reasons we didn't get the 4th down (non) stop reviewed and overturned. Nevertheless that call should've got our way, despite the poor angles.



On the 4th down that should have been a stop, the officials didn't even bring out the sticks, despite how close the call was. In this first screenshot, the wide shot angle, you see that the marker (not the sticks, the sticks are only there to tell the down, not mark where the first down is. The 1st down marker is the little orange pad on the ground) is a couple feet past the 32 yard line. You can see the tick mark of the 32 yard line, then a few feet past that is the marker on the ground.

Now, in the next screenshot we have the point of contact. This is basically the farthest forward that the Mizzou RB went before he went backwards. You can't see the ball itself, but you can see the 32 yard line, marked by the vertical blue line, and then approximately where the 1st down marker is, based on the first wide angle shot (the yellow vertical line). In any case, even if the Mizzou running back extended the ball (it looked like it was tucked, not extended), the entire pile is infront of where that 1st down marker is. It looks like the pile never really goes past the 32 yard line, and the running back doesn't look like he ever makes it to the 32 at all.

Hell, maybe it was a first down because the camera angles suck, but based on the angles we do have and the way we stopped them up, that more than deserved the sticks to be brought out. Pretty ridiculous call.

In the last screenshot we have the Ty'Son Williams (non) touchdown. As you can see, his left foot is clearly in bounds, his right knee is bent upwards and the right foot is off the ground, and the ball clearly breaks the plane. It's one of the better angles of the night, and the official could see it perfectly. I was very surprised that this one was not overturned, and even more surprised at the speed at which they confirmed it out of bounds.


Anyway, it was a horrible officiating night. But who freaking cares, we won. I just wanted to refute the crappy calls they made.
I, too, believe Williams scored on that play. I also think they should have at least measured on the 4th down mark, but the little field marker you pointed out in the picture isn't the official line to gain. The sticks are official, and it looks like it was dead on the 32, which is behind the orange field marker. It was, at least, a lot closer than it appeared to those of us who watched on television, and he may have well earned it, but not measuring was wrong.
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Old 09-11-2017, 08:05 AM   #5
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Default Re: Refuting the Ball Calls!!

Yea I agree. These calls should have at least been reviewed. Bu it seems like they just kept going. Very strange.
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Old 09-11-2017, 08:19 AM   #6
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Default Re: Refuting the Ball Calls!!

Cameras are definitely the problem. They gave him the spot on the 1st down call and the angles were not good enough to review. Same on the TD which I agree was a TD, but you have to assume the ball is still inside the Pylon. Both camera angles sucked.
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Old 09-11-2017, 08:28 AM   #7
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Default Re: Refuting the Ball Calls!!

Can a Head Coach request a measurement? Seems like the coach should be allowed to ask them to measure close calls.
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Old 09-11-2017, 08:35 AM   #8
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Default Re: Refuting the Ball Calls!!

First, those are auxillary markers and attempt to mirror the official line to gain chains on the visitor sidelines. Those are the ones the Head Linesman works with to spot the ball and set thr chains. Second, the side judge was in a perfect position to judge the goal line call. Third, the camera angle is diagonally behind and in front of the goal line, so it gives an appearance that the ball is further than it actually is. Personally, it was a good call from the side judge and the crew did a good job overall.
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Old 09-11-2017, 08:38 AM   #9
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Default Re: Refuting the Ball Calls!!

I won't disagree, but just want to introduce you to a concept called Parallax
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Old 09-11-2017, 08:38 AM   #10
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Default Re: Refuting the Ball Calls!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roosterdog View Post
Can a Head Coach request a measurement? Seems like the coach should be allowed to ask them to measure close calls.
Yes, but it has to be requested before the ready for play is given. It can also be denied.
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Old 09-11-2017, 08:47 AM   #11
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Default Re: Refuting the Ball Calls!!

So far this year Officiating across College Football has been horendous
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Old 09-11-2017, 08:56 AM   #12
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Default Re: Refuting the Ball Calls!!

Is that why games from there always look like high school? So you are saying the school provides the cameras? Or only certain locations are made available for cameras by the stadium layout? Lighting or something always looks like garbage there too. But yeah those refs were horrendous and should be fined or something.

He scored. He was looking down at his feet and the pylon and just trying to dip across. Next time he needs to go straight through the cat to about two yards deep. He can do that, no problem.
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Old 09-11-2017, 09:04 AM   #13
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Default Re: Refuting the Ball Calls!!

Both calls were bad and would have been over-turned with the proper camera angle. The issue with the TD was that the official at the goal line was afraid of getting hit and was backing up. The fallback is to call him out and let IR overturn, which would have happened with a good camera angle.

Bizarre on the 4th Down play that they did not review the spot or measure. It was almost like the ref was looking at the distance past the yard marker for the ball and the First Down marker, but was looking at the wrong yard marker. I other words, the ball was a half yard short, but the ref saw it a half yard past the marker because he was looking at the wrong yard marker.

Mizzou needs to get with the program - for all of the criticism that we give the ACC, that stadium is in dire need of upgrades.
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Old 09-11-2017, 09:06 AM   #14
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Default Re: Refuting the Ball Calls!!

I thought I heard the announcers say they had "fixed camera angles" down on the field.
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Old 09-11-2017, 09:17 AM   #15
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Default Re: Refuting the Ball Calls!!

I was in row 1 on the 40 yard line behind our bench. ESPN had a sideline camera cart running up and down an asphalt track. It was 15+ ft high and obstructed the view in the first 5 rows when it was parked.

Kinlaw is just massive in person and dwarfs most of our players.
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Old 09-11-2017, 09:20 AM   #16
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Default Re: Refuting the Ball Calls!!

I was actually worried about the TD play for a different reason. literally as soon as the shot in the OP goes by and the next few frames come in, Ty'Son dropped the ball. It scared me that they would say he didn't have possession as he broke the goal line and that it was a touchback.
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Old 09-11-2017, 09:30 AM   #17
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Default Re: Refuting the Ball Calls!!

The deep ball that was caught down the right sideline over King was bobbled and loose on the receiver's belly as he made contact out of bounds. Mizzou rushed up to the line and ran the next play in what appeared to be an attempt to avoid a replay. I thought the "booth" was supposed to review all close plays as a default. The fact Mizzou rushed to run the next play should have been an indicator that it may have been bobbled. TV only showed the replay once due to the next play being ran so quickly.The catch is around the 4:55 mark maybe a bit earlier. I am not certain about college, but in the NFL if you do get complete control before being out of bounds it is not a catch. I will admit it was close but it at least deserved an official replay.

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Old 09-11-2017, 09:31 AM   #18
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Default Re: Refuting the Ball Calls!!

Here's the 4th and one....

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Old 09-11-2017, 09:40 AM   #19
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Default Re: Refuting the Ball Calls!!

Regarding the 4th down. The only thing I can figure is that the official chains were on the near sideline, not the one the camera was facing. It is not uncommon for the official chains and the opposite field chains to get off by a little. If this is not the case then it was definitely a 4th down stop or at least deserved a measurement.
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Old 09-11-2017, 09:45 AM   #20
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Default Re: Refuting the Ball Calls!!

How about that guy calling the TD at the end of the game where the ball was on the receivers ass? Thankfully that was overturned but damnit man. That and the no measure spot and the signal the wrong way that had to be overruled on the fumbled punt. Just wow! These guys get paid for this right?
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