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Old 09-11-2017, 04:44 PM   #21
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Default Re: Illegal man down field

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Originally Posted by sc455 View Post
the refs definitely got it right but can someone tell me the purpose of the rule? i mean, who gives a rats ass if they are both lined up on the los. who cares if a tight end an two outside receivers are lined up on the los. why cant everyone just go out, its football.

it would seem debilitating to the offense with the way the rule is now. the defender just has to glance and see if the tight end is on or off the los to figure out if he is blocking or going out for the pass.
Can you imagine everyone eligible to receive a forward pass? There used to be a formation that allowed that to happen called A-11 formation. It was crazy. It has since been "outlawed".

Last edited by 2000grad; 09-11-2017 at 05:01 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 09-11-2017, 04:54 PM   #22
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Default Re: Illegal man down field

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Originally Posted by 2000grad View Post
Can you imagine everyone eligible to receive a forward pass? There used to be a formation that allowed that to happen called A-11 formation. It was crazy. It has sense been "outlawed".
Some rules are just stupid, IMO. If an offense wants to line up only one guy on the LOS, then they should be able to do so. By the same token, if they want to send everyone except the QB out as receivers, they should be able to.
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Old 09-11-2017, 04:54 PM   #23
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Default Re: Illegal man down field

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Originally Posted by 2000grad View Post
Can you imagine everyone eligible to receive a forward pass? There used to be a formation that allowed that to happen called A-11 formation. It was crazy. It has sense been "outlawed".
so, basically how does this foul happen. Did hurst "think" he was off the los and was surprised by the call or did he just mess up and line up in the wrong spot?
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Old 09-11-2017, 04:56 PM   #24
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Default Re: Illegal man down field

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Originally Posted by sc455 View Post
so, basically how does this foul happen. Did hurst "think" he was off the los and was surprised by the call or did he just mess up and line up in the wrong spot?
He could have been lined up too far forward, or another receiver (I think it was Edwards in this case) could have been too close to the line of scrimmage. If either had been considered off the LOS, it would have been legal.
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Old 09-11-2017, 05:03 PM   #25
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Default Re: Illegal man down field

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Originally Posted by sc455 View Post
so, basically how does this foul happen. Did hurst "think" he was off the los and was surprised by the call or did he just mess up and line up in the wrong spot?
The poster above me gave a great answer. Sometimes, these guys just forget how they are supposed to line up or just line up incorrectly. It happens all the time. Sometimes they get lucky because the QB was sacked instead of throwing a fwd pass that crosses the LOS.
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Old 09-11-2017, 05:52 PM   #26
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Default Re: Illegal man down field

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Originally Posted by 2000grad View Post
What rule states that you can ONLY have 7 on the LOS? You have to have at least 7, otherwise that is an illegal procedure call.


Not 100% accurate. That is the rule in the NFL, but in college, it doesn't matter how many you have on the LOS, only that you don't have more than 5 in the backfield. Semantics, but it can matter, if you ran a play with only 10 on the field.
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Old 09-11-2017, 06:07 PM   #27
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Default Re: Illegal man down field

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Originally Posted by Wepdiggy View Post
Not 100% accurate. That is the rule in the NFL, but in college, it doesn't matter how many you have on the LOS, only that you don't have more than 5 in the backfield. Semantics, but it can matter, if you ran a play with only 10 on the field.
Well, if you can't have 5 in the backfield, how many HAVE to be in the line? Yes...the way the college rylemis written is different than nfhs or nfl. Obviously less than 11 players on the field would pose a problem for the offense as well, but not necessarily a foul
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Old 09-11-2017, 09:33 PM   #28
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Default Re: Illegal man down field

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Originally Posted by sc455 View Post
so, basically how does this foul happen. Did hurst "think" he was off the los and was surprised by the call or did he just mess up and line up in the wrong spot?
The wr is typically responsible for making sure. If you watch the wide receiver you will see them usually at the last second step back or forward and motion to the official
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Old 09-11-2017, 09:38 PM   #29
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Default Re: Illegal man down field

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Originally Posted by 2000grad View Post
Well, if you can't have 5 in the backfield, how many HAVE to be in the line? Yes...the way the college rylemis written is different than nfhs or nfl. Obviously less than 11 players on the field would pose a problem for the offense as well, but not necessarily a foul

Correction: Google tells me 7

Per Wiki:
The NCAA rulebook defines eligible receivers for college football in Rule 7, Section 3, Article 3.[1] The determining factors are the player's position on the field at the snap and their jersey number. Specifically, any players on offense wearing numbers between 50 and 79 are always ineligible. All defensive players are eligible receivers and offensive players who are not wearing an ineligible number are eligible receivers if they meet one of the following three criteria:
  • Player is at either end of the group of players on the line of scrimmage (usually the wide receivers and tight end)
  • Player is lined up at least one yard behind the line of scrimmage (running backs, fullbacks, etc.)
  • Player is positioned to receive a hand-to-hand snap from the center (almost always the quarterback)
Players may only wear eligible numbers at an ineligible position when it is obvious that a punt or field goal is to be attempted.
If a player is to change between eligible and ineligible positions, they must physically change jersey numbers to reflect the position.[2]
A receiver loses his eligibility by leaving the field of play unless he was forced out by a defensive player and immediately attempts to get back inbounds (Rule 7-3-4). All players on the field become eligible as soon as the ball is touched by a defensive player or an official during play (Rule 7-3-5).

Tight End definition per wiki:
Offensive formations may have as few as zero or as many as three tight ends at one time. If a wide receiver is present in a formation, but outside the tight end, the wide receiver must be positioned behind the line of scrimmage (see figure at right), since he is in the backfield, not on the line. If two tight ends are on the same side of the line of scrimmage, one must be behind the line of scrimmage or the tight end not at the end of the offensive line must report himself as non-eligible receiver. Alternatively, the offensive coordinator could use the tight end as a fullback.
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:47 AM   #30
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Default Re: Illegal man down field

Hurst was covered on the LOS by Edwards. He should have backed off the LOS a couple of yards. Had he done that, both Hurst and Edwards would have been eligible. The official made the correct call.
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Old 09-12-2017, 07:12 AM   #31
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Default Re: Illegal man down field

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Originally Posted by 2000grad View Post
What rule states that you can ONLY have 7 on the LOS? You have to have at least 7, otherwise that is an illegal procedure call
Regardless of how anyone interprets the rule, "Technically" you can have ONLY seven men
on the line of scrimmage, and no more than four in the backfield.
Yes, you can have all 10 players (all minus the QB) near / around / close to .... the line
of scrimmage. But (including the QB) four of those players have to "by rule" be at least
a step (half yard / yard ...refs discrimination) behind the line of scrimmage. No matter
where those player are realistically on the field relating to the interior linemen, those
four are considered "THE BACKFIELD" The Term "Empty Set" means that the formation
has no RB at the side or behind the QB, but all three "Backs" (the four minus the QB) are
spread out Near The line of scrimmage (Not Directly on it). All three of those players
(regardless of where they are lined up) are eligible receivers. Of the seven ON the line
of scrimmage, ONLY the players at the end of the line are eligible to release and get into
the pass routes (be an eligible receiver).
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Old 09-12-2017, 07:59 AM   #32
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Default Re: Illegal man down field

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurticus View Post
Regardless of how anyone interprets the rule, "Technically" you can have ONLY seven men
on the line of scrimmage, and no more than four in the backfield.
Yes, you can have all 10 players (all minus the QB) near / around / close to .... the line
of scrimmage. But (including the QB) four of those players have to "by rule" be at least
a step (half yard / yard ...refs discrimination) behind the line of scrimmage. No matter
where those player are realistically on the field relating to the interior linemen, those
four are considered "THE BACKFIELD" The Term "Empty Set" means that the formation
has no RB at the side or behind the QB, but all three "Backs" (the four minus the QB) are
spread out Near The line of scrimmage (Not Directly on it). All three of those players
(regardless of where they are lined up) are eligible receivers. Of the seven ON the line
of scrimmage, ONLY the players at the end of the line are eligible to release and get into
the pass routes (be an eligible receiver).
What is the rule.reference that states such? That was the question i asked.
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Old 09-12-2017, 12:03 PM   #33
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Default Re: Illegal man down field

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000grad View Post
What is the rule.reference that states such? That was the question i asked.
Current NCAA rulebook definition:

Rule 7, Sec. 3 Covers the definition Formations and alignment:

Article 4 of this section: Highlighted are the important points




Rule 2, Sec. 27 defines what determines a Back from a Lineman.

Article 4 of this section with the important points highlighted



The Nutshell version of Rule 2, Section 27, Article 4 is that No Back can
be aligned so that he is On The line of scrimmage. Since Rule 7, Section
3 states that there can be no more than 4 backs, and none of them can
be on the line of scrimmage at the snap of the ball, then that means you
can not have more than 7 linemen on the line of scrimmage. The only
ones eligible to receive of those are the ones at the end of the line, wearing
an eligible number.
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Old 09-12-2017, 12:48 PM   #34
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Default Re: Illegal man down field

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurticus View Post

The Nutshell version of Rule 2, Section 27, Article 4 is that No Back can
be aligned so that he is On The line of scrimmage. Since Rule 7, Section
3 states that there can be no more than 4 backs, and none of them can
be on the line of scrimmage at the snap of the ball, then that means you
can not have more than 7 linemen on the line of scrimmage. The only
ones eligible to receive of those are the ones at the end of the line, wearing
an eligible number.
Unfortunately, the quoted part is incorrect. You can have 10 men on the LOS. There is no rule that states you have to only 7 on the LOS. If you have 10 on the LOS, you can only have 3 eligible receivers, with the QB being on of them from the shotgun formation.
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Old 09-12-2017, 12:59 PM   #35
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Default Re: Illegal man down field

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000grad View Post
Unfortunately, the quoted part is incorrect. You can have 10 men on the LOS. There is no rule that states you have to only 7 on the LOS. If you have 10 on the LOS, you can only have 3 eligible receivers, with the QB being on of them from the shotgun formation.
Then you are saying that the rule book is wrong. .. .not me.
I simply stated what the rule book says, and has said since the formal rules
of football were first adopted over 100 years ago.
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:20 PM   #36
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Default Re: Illegal man down field

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurticus View Post
Then you are saying that the rule book is wrong. .. .not me.
I simply stated what the rule book says, and has said since the formal rules
of football were first adopted over 100 years ago.
No, I am stating that it is not stated in the rule book. I believe that your interpretation is incorrect.

There is no foul for having more than 7 on the LOS. Again, there hasn't been a rule stated that says "Only 7 can be on the LOS". If there was a foul, it would be stated in the rulebook. However, it has not been stated as such.
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:22 PM   #37
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Default Re: Illegal man down field

Here is the rule you stated.

Quote:
Lineman and Back
ARTICLE 4. a. Lineman.
1. A lineman is any Team A player legally on his scrimmage line (Rule
2-21-2).
2. A Team A player is legally on his scrimmage line when he faces his
opponent’s goal line with the line of his shoulders approximately
parallel thereto and either (a) he is the snapper (Rule 2-27-8) or (b)
his head breaks the plane of the line drawn through the waistline of
the snapper.
b. Interior Lineman. An interior lineman is a lineman who is not on the end
of his scrimmage line.
c. Restricted Lineman. A restricted lineman is any interior lineman, or any
lineman wearing a number 50-79, whose hand(s) are below the knees.
d. Back.
FR-40 Rule 2 / Definitions
1. A back is any Team A player who is not a lineman and whose head
or shoulder does not break the plane of the line drawn through the
waistline of the nearest Team A lineman.
2. A back is also the player in position to receive a hand-to-hand snap.
3. A lineman becomes a back b
Nothing about only 7 on the LOS.
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:24 PM   #38
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Default Re: Illegal man down field

Quote:
Since Rule 7, Section
3 states that there can be no more than 4 backs, and none of them can
be on the line of scrimmage at the snap of the ball, then that means you
can not have more than 7 linemen on the line of scrimmage.
Not having more than 4 does not mean you can't have less than 4 backs.
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:29 PM   #39
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Default Re: Illegal man down field

What is a line of scrimmage and how many are there?
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