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Old 12-14-2015, 07:54 PM   #21
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Default Re: Outcome-Based Goals vs Process-Based Goals

I'm honestly surprised to see a discussion on this board that requires higher level thinking.

With that being said, personally I prefer outcome based goals. The reason is that if I know the desired outcome in specific detail (nothing vague like finish on time), I am more likely to find alternative measures and seek out help and guidance as needed to make the goal as attainable as possible. Whereas if I have a process based goal, I do not have as much freedom to 'think outside the box'.

This is very different depending on how each person handles tasks and assignments, but I really like being able to discuss different philosophies like this.

Great post, OP
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Old 12-14-2015, 07:58 PM   #22
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Default Re: Outcome-Based Goals vs Process-Based Goals

It's semantics. Outcome is the answer. Outcome is the reason we do everything. If people didn't want the outcome they wouldn't bother doing anything. All this process focusing stuff is just a way to keep people motivated enough to not give up in the face of apparent failure. It's not going to keep people from getting fired when haven't lived up to expectations and those expectations from outcome based goals.
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Old 12-14-2015, 08:06 PM   #23
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Default Re: Outcome-Based Goals vs Process-Based Goals

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Originally Posted by EAtMoRTaYtErz View Post
It's semantics. Outcome is the answer. Outcome is the reason we do everything. If people didn't want the outcome they wouldn't bother doing anything. All this process focusing stuff is just a way to keep people motivated enough to not give up in the face of apparent failure. It's not going to keep people from getting fired when haven't lived up to expectations and those expectations from outcome based goals.
Sometimes you have to learn how before you can "do."

It is a bit like how school usually is done before career.

Practice in addition to scrimmages and games show that process-based actions can work in conjunction with outcome-based goals to increase performance.

I would go even further and talk about your specifics when I think being an employee vs working in your profession to become an expert (if you go to work and only do enough not to get fired, is that different than working to become one of the best in your field?).
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Muschamp said he doesn't have a 3 year or 5 year plan, his plan is to win now and decisions will be based on winning now.

Muschamp believes that recruiting within a five-hour radius of USC, "we can recruit good enough players to win the East every year."
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Old 12-14-2015, 08:12 PM   #24
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Default Re: Outcome-Based Goals vs Process-Based Goals

If we don't get an outcome of winning who cares about the process...

Not my job to worry about the process... but to bitch or be happy about the outcome...

I'm going to get a beer now... thank you.
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Old 12-14-2015, 08:13 PM   #25
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Default Re: Outcome-Based Goals vs Process-Based Goals

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Originally Posted by pimpingamecock View Post
If we don't get an outcome of winning who cares about the process...

Not my job to worry about the process... but to bitch or be happy about the outcome...

I'm going to get a beer now... thank you.

This is the smartest post in the thread. You are the best among us.
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Quote:
Muschamp said he doesn't have a 3 year or 5 year plan, his plan is to win now and decisions will be based on winning now.

Muschamp believes that recruiting within a five-hour radius of USC, "we can recruit good enough players to win the East every year."
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Old 12-14-2015, 08:16 PM   #26
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Default Re: Outcome-Based Goals vs Process-Based Goals

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This is the smartest post in the thread. You are the best among us.
Always glad to share!
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Old 12-14-2015, 08:30 PM   #27
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Default Re: Outcome-Based Goals vs Process-Based Goals

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Originally Posted by EAtMoRTaYtErz View Post
It's semantics. Outcome is the answer. Outcome is the reason we do everything. If people didn't want the outcome they wouldn't bother doing anything. All this process focusing stuff is just a way to keep people motivated enough to not give up in the face of apparent failure. It's not going to keep people from getting fired when haven't lived up to expectations and those expectations from outcome based goals.
I think the Wooden quote went right past you....

There is real internal peace in knowing you have worked as hard as you can for a particular goal.....said another way, a person gains tremendously from the process but whether the process achieves the goal or not, the process is what brought the peace and growth to the person.

As a self employed person who produces a product, I have days where I am really slack and beat myself up for being such a slacker; and then I have days where I am extremely motivated and put in a hard day of productivity and feel much more at peace with myself. Oddly, due to the nature of my work, I may have made no more money on my motivated day as I did my slack day, but I am much more at peace knowing I gave the day my all. So if the goal was only outcome based (making money), why do I feel so much better depending on the process?
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Old 12-14-2015, 08:36 PM   #28
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Default Re: Outcome-Based Goals vs Process-Based Goals

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Muschamp said he doesn't have a 3 year or 5 year plan, his plan is to win now and decisions will be based on winning now.

Muschamp believes that recruiting within a five-hour radius of USC, "we can recruit good enough players to win the East every year."
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Old 12-14-2015, 08:41 PM   #29
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Default Re: Outcome-Based Goals vs Process-Based Goals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toneski View Post
I think the Wooden quote went right past you....

There is real internal peace in knowing you have worked as hard as you can for a particular goal.....said another way, a person gains tremendously from the process but whether the process achieves the goal or not, the process is what brought the peace and growth to the person.

As a self employed person who produces a product, I have days where I am really slack and beat myself up for being such a slacker; and then I have days where I am extremely motivated and put in a hard day of productivity and feel much more at peace with myself. Oddly, due to the nature of my work, I may have made no more money on my motivated day as I did my slack day, but I am much more at peace knowing I gave the day my all. So if the goal was only outcome based (making money), why do I feel so much better depending on the process?
If the outcome you are looking for is "internal peace," than I guess that works for you. But then of course "knowing you did your best" is not necessarily a prerequisite for that. In fact you don't really have to do anything for that except not give a dang.
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Old 12-14-2015, 08:45 PM   #30
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Default Re: Outcome-Based Goals vs Process-Based Goals

this thread has nothing to do with Gamecock football.....this is a generic topic to be discussed somewhere else.....
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Old 12-14-2015, 08:52 PM   #31
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Default Re: Outcome-Based Goals vs Process-Based Goals

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregoryHouse View Post
Sometimes you have to learn how before you can "do."

It is a bit like how school usually is done before career.

Practice in addition to scrimmages and games show that process-based actions can work in conjunction with outcome-based goals to increase performance.

I would go even further and talk about your specifics when I think being an employee vs working in your profession to become an expert (if you go to work and only do enough not to get fired, is that different than working to become one of the best in your field?).
Before you learn "how to do something" you have a reason for learning it, as opposed to learning something else or that you'd rather not try hard at all because there isn't really some outcome your really want badly enough justify the effort. In my opinion the process-based goal theory is a sham, because it already assumes people are highly motivated and have strong outcome based goals to begin with.
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Old 12-14-2015, 09:00 PM   #32
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Default Re: Outcome-Based Goals vs Process-Based Goals

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Originally Posted by b381l View Post
this thread has nothing to do with Gamecock football.....this is a generic topic to be discussed somewhere else.....
Yeah? Well, that's just, like, your opinion man.
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Quote:
Muschamp said he doesn't have a 3 year or 5 year plan, his plan is to win now and decisions will be based on winning now.

Muschamp believes that recruiting within a five-hour radius of USC, "we can recruit good enough players to win the East every year."
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Old 12-14-2015, 09:03 PM   #33
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Default Re: Outcome-Based Goals vs Process-Based Goals

Quote:
Originally Posted by EAtMoRTaYtErz View Post
Before you learn "how to do something" you have a reason for learning it, as opposed to learning something else or that you'd rather not try hard at all because there isn't really some outcome your really want badly enough justify the effort. In my opinion the process-based goal theory is a sham, because it already assumes people are highly motivated and have strong outcome based goals to begin with.
both are important
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Quote:
Muschamp said he doesn't have a 3 year or 5 year plan, his plan is to win now and decisions will be based on winning now.

Muschamp believes that recruiting within a five-hour radius of USC, "we can recruit good enough players to win the East every year."
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Old 12-14-2015, 09:06 PM   #34
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Default Re: Outcome-Based Goals vs Process-Based Goals

Quote:
Originally Posted by EAtMoRTaYtErz View Post
In my opinion the process-based goal theory is a sham, because it already assumes people are highly motivated and have strong outcome based goals to begin with.

or it assumes there is a teacher, coach or boss that can teach the process to workers, students or players that are trying to learn the process in order to get to their goals.
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Quote:
Muschamp said he doesn't have a 3 year or 5 year plan, his plan is to win now and decisions will be based on winning now.

Muschamp believes that recruiting within a five-hour radius of USC, "we can recruit good enough players to win the East every year."
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Old 12-14-2015, 09:13 PM   #35
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Default Re: Outcome-Based Goals vs Process-Based Goals

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or it assumes there is a teacher, coach or boss that can teach the process to workers, students or players that are trying to learn the process in order to get to their goals.
If anything is a sham, it's goals. A lot of losers have goals.

For example, it's every SEC football team's goal to win the conference championship each year, but the same team keeps winning it, year after year.

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Old 12-14-2015, 09:15 PM   #36
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Default Re: Outcome-Based Goals vs Process-Based Goals

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or it assumes there is a teacher, coach or boss that can teach the process to workers, students or players that are trying to learn the process in order to get to their goals.
Outcome is more important though, because in some cases you don't need to learn any kind of process to get what you want. Some people just get lucky. Some people have natural attributes and people give them things. Some people's have ultimate goals that not really setting the bar too high for themselves. At the end of the day the person that just fooled around and go what he wanted is happier than the person that worked so hard until he passed out every day to perfect "the process" but didn't get it.
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Old 12-14-2015, 09:17 PM   #37
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Default Re: Outcome-Based Goals vs Process-Based Goals

The reification of process is, and yet is not, the systemization of pedagogical institutions. But with that being said, the epistemology of civil society replays (in parodic form) the legitimation of power/knowledge.
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Old 12-14-2015, 09:19 PM   #38
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Default Re: Outcome-Based Goals vs Process-Based Goals

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Originally Posted by Carolina-Beez View Post
If anything is a sham, it's goals. A lot of losers have goals.

For example, it's every SEC football team's goal to win the conference championship each year, but the same team keeps winning it, year after year.

That is the dumbest thing I have ever seen if it's not sarcasm. People want stuff even if they don't have it. Especially if they don't. Why would they try to deny it? If you are playing football and you say you don't care about winning a championship your are lying. Believing you are going to win and wanting to win are not the same and it's not the same as believing you "can win." If you WANT to win a championship and you believe you CAN win a championship than your goal is to win a championship. It's just that simple.
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Old 12-14-2015, 09:26 PM   #39
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Default Re: Outcome-Based Goals vs Process-Based Goals

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Originally Posted by Cockadoo View Post
The reification of process is, and yet is not, the systemization of pedagogical institutions. But with that being said, the epistemology of civil society replays (in parodic form) the legitimation of power/knowledge.


Ed Miller: I was with a girl once. Wasn't a squaw, but she was purty. She had yellow hair, like uh... oh, like something.

Dick Liddil: Like hair bobbed from a ray of sunlight?

Ed Miller: Yeah, yeah. Like that. Boy, you talk good.

Dick Liddil: You can hide things in vocabulary.

Ed Miller: Maybe you and me could writer her a note, send it by post?

Dick Liddil: See, all you gotta do, Ed, is predict her needs and beat her to the punch.

Ed Miller: Well, this girl, she had a real specific job.

Dick Liddil: Specific?

Ed Miller: We's only together once. She's afraid of lightning. She came up into the wagon and just cuddled right up to me. She gave me a kind price, too.

Dick Liddil: Well I'll be! That is specific.

Ed Miller: Yeah, sure, she been with other people. But the kinds of things she said to me, people just don't say unless they really mean it.

Dick Liddil: "My love said she would marry only me, and Jove himself could not make her care, for what women say to lovers, you'll agree, one writes on running water, or on air."

Ed Miller: My God that's good. Let's write her that.

Dick Liddil: Naw. Poetry don't work on whores.
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Quote:
Muschamp said he doesn't have a 3 year or 5 year plan, his plan is to win now and decisions will be based on winning now.

Muschamp believes that recruiting within a five-hour radius of USC, "we can recruit good enough players to win the East every year."
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Old 12-14-2015, 09:27 PM   #40
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Default Re: Outcome-Based Goals vs Process-Based Goals

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Originally Posted by EAtMoRTaYtErz View Post
That is the dumbest thing I have ever seen if it's not sarcasm. People want stuff even if they don't have it. Especially if they don't. Why would they try to deny it? If you are playing football and you say you don't care about winning a championship your are lying. Believing you are going to win and wanting to win are not the same and it's not the same as believing you "can win." If you WANT to win a championship and you believe you CAN win a championship than your goal is to win a championship. It's just that simple.
but what if you don't know how to win a championship?

Do you just hope to luck upon one?
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Quote:
Muschamp said he doesn't have a 3 year or 5 year plan, his plan is to win now and decisions will be based on winning now.

Muschamp believes that recruiting within a five-hour radius of USC, "we can recruit good enough players to win the East every year."
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