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Old 03-07-2018, 06:12 PM   #21
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Default Re: Disagreeing with Bobby Bentley

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Originally Posted by bcgibson75 View Post
No no...and no.

Turner, while a tough runner...does NOT have the body to be a every down, running between the tackles RB.

He is quick...but not enough of burner to be exclusive to getting to the edge on design stretch runs.

I've seen Turner get blasted multiple times from LBs and Safeties over the years whether at RB or on Kick Returns.

When he shows me he can consistently deliver a hit...rather than take hit from the defense...then they can make him a feature back.

IMO, Dowdle, Williams, Denson...in that order...should get the bulk of the RB carries.

That said, I do hope Turner contributes to the offense in '18.

GO COCKS!!
You gotta give AJ credit the dude runs bigger than he is
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Old 03-07-2018, 07:04 PM   #22
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Default Re: Disagreeing with Bobby Bentley

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Says Williams saw a decreased roll because of inconsistency on game day. The biggest inconsistency I saw was his playing time early in the season. No carries the first game. 14 in the second. None in the third. 13 in the fourth. Etc. I think he mostly performed very well and came away as the teams second leading rusher with very limited carries. He mostly performed well in limited action.

I did not like our run game approach at all last season. Yeah, we have a lot of horses, but you canít give a guy 0 carries in 1 game, then give him 15 in he next, then 0 the next and so on. And we had too much rotation within games. RBs feed off of rhythm. I know weíve got horses but youíve got to go with one and make him the feature back. Several times this last season when we had a back break of 2 or 3 decent runs in a row and get in a rhythm, Bentley would pull him.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.thest...203779134.html
Georgia did very well with multiple backs. Using different backs often changes the ways a team runs the ball, power back, speed back, etc., keeps the defense off balance.
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Old 03-07-2018, 07:13 PM   #23
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Default Re: Disagreeing with Bobby Bentley

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Your comment seems to reflect usual thinking, but ignore the evidence. Turner has shown durability and power up the middle in defiance of the size issue.
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You gotta give AJ credit the dude runs bigger than he is
Evidence?/?...yes, please...let's look at the evidence.

Turner's best games were against Tenn, Vandy & Florida.

Tenn and Vandy...2 of the worst rush defenses in the SEC in 2017.

Florida - had just fired their coach, gotten blasted at Mizzou, no motivation, no help from their offense, and UF's defense was not that good to begin with.

I'm not saying he's not a good RB. He runs hard, but he is limited in his lateral movement, and has a hard time finding room to maneuver through the point of attack when the OLine doesn't create a clear running lane. A healthy Dowdle has at least shown me that.

IMO, Turner would not be a starting RB at any other SEC school...which pains me to say...I like the young man...by all accounts he works hard, plays harder & has made plays over his career at USC.

All that to say, we need a stable of productive RBs to have balance on the offense...instead of defenses putting 6 in the box / dropping 5 DBs to cover Deebo/Edwards/etc...and still keeping our running game in check...if we're going to contend for the East in '18, we gotta have some weapons at RB.

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Old 03-07-2018, 07:22 PM   #24
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Default Re: Disagreeing with Bobby Bentley

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Georgia did very well with multiple backs. Using different backs often changes the ways a team runs the ball, power back, speed back, etc., keeps the defense off balance.
It's not about using multiple backs. It's about how you use them. Re-read my post.
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Old 03-07-2018, 11:02 PM   #25
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Default Re: Disagreeing with Bobby Bentley

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Originally Posted by bcgibson75 View Post
Evidence?/?...yes, please...let's look at the evidence.

Turner's best games were against Tenn, Vandy & Florida.

Tenn and Vandy...2 of the worst rush defenses in the SEC in 2017.

Florida - had just fired their coach, gotten blasted at Mizzou, no motivation, no help from their offense, and UF's defense was not that good to begin with.

I'm not saying he's not a good RB. He runs hard, but he is limited in his lateral movement, and has a hard time finding room to maneuver through the point of attack when the OLine doesn't create a clear running lane. A healthy Dowdle has at least shown me that.

IMO, Turner would not be a starting RB at any other SEC school...which pains me to say...I like the young man...by all accounts he works hard, plays harder & has made plays over his career at USC.

All that to say, we need a stable of productive RBs to have balance on the offense...instead of defenses putting 6 in the box / dropping 5 DBs to cover Deebo/Edwards/etc...and still keeping our running game in check...if we're going to contend for the East in '18, we gotta have some weapons at RB.

GO COCKS!!
Part of the evidence is 5.4 yards per carry - with more carries than any other back we have. The game film itself is further evidence coupled with what the coaches have said for two years.
I agree with you that it's good to have the stable we do, pushing each other to see who can be "that guy" as Bentley says.
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Old 03-08-2018, 01:34 AM   #26
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Default Re: Disagreeing with Bobby Bentley

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That said, I do hope Turner contributes to the offense in '18.

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im glad you hope he "contributes". Thats pretty darn backhanded for what he has contributed so far.
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Old 03-08-2018, 02:55 AM   #27
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Default Re: Disagreeing with Bobby Bentley

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I still think we have to identify a feature back. That doesnít mean he gets 90% of the carries, but certainly the majority. The percent of carries was split among UGAís top 4 backs as follows: 44%, 30%, 16% and 10%. For us on the other hand, it was: 33%, 32%, 22% and 14%. UGA has a good distribution, but with one back clearly getting the most carries. When I look at their distribution, I see strategy. When I look at ours, I see indecision. If you look at just the top 2 backs, for UGA Chubb got about 60% of the carries. For us, it was a statistical tie at 50% each.

We canít use the excuse that we have too many good backs. Nobody is more loaded than UGA, but they found a way to get a good distribution.
my problem with what youre saying is what equals good distribution? if chubb and michel had equal carries would uga have somehow been less successful? i think the most important thing is to run it more often and more successfully and the distribution will mostly take care of itself. if youre only handing it off to your backs less than 20 times which we routinely did under roper it doesnt matter the distribution.

the other thing is rico's injury skewed the carries so our 3 back rotation was pretty much just the first half of the season. turner had 20 total carries through the first 6 games. 1st half of the season, of the 125 carries between the backs rico 44.8%, tyson 39.2%, turner 16%
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Old 03-08-2018, 04:49 AM   #28
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Default Re: Disagreeing with Bobby Bentley

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Evidence?/?...yes, please...let's look at the evidence.

Turner's best games were against Tenn, Vandy & Florida.

Tenn and Vandy...2 of the worst rush defenses in the SEC in 2017.

Florida - had just fired their coach, gotten blasted at Mizzou, no motivation, no help from their offense, and UF's defense was not that good to begin with.

I'm not saying he's not a good RB. He runs hard, but he is limited in his lateral movement, and has a hard time finding room to maneuver through the point of attack when the OLine doesn't create a clear running lane. A healthy Dowdle has at least shown me that.

IMO, Turner would not be a starting RB at any other SEC school...which pains me to say...I like the young man...by all accounts he works hard, plays harder & has made plays over his career at USC.

All that to say, we need a stable of productive RBs to have balance on the offense...instead of defenses putting 6 in the box / dropping 5 DBs to cover Deebo/Edwards/etc...and still keeping our running game in check...if we're going to contend for the East in '18, we gotta have some weapons at RB.

GO COCKS!!
Do you even watch the games. AJ does lack size but is very fast and has very good lateral movement......he can run back kick offs.

AJ didnít get many carries the first half of the season because Rico and Tyíson were mostly splitting carries. What we didnít know at the time is that Rico had been hurt the first half of the season. So once he broke his ankle, AJ saw his carries increase which is why his best games werenít until the second half of the season. Muschamp loves AJ because heís a very tough runner. This year will be interesting to see which backs are in the rotation. If Tyson doesnít learn how to block, then Rico, AJ and Fenwick (who has looked good this spring so far) could see most of the carries.
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Old 03-08-2018, 10:00 AM   #29
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Default Re: Disagreeing with Bobby Bentley

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AJ does lack size but is very fast and has very good lateral movement......he can run back kick offs.
Yep....AJ has playmaker speed....wish we'd ran him outside more. Ty'son had several runs where he hesitated or couldn't find a hole and we got stopped when we needed ydg. You can't be indecisive when your team needs yardage. That's likely what BB is alluding to.
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Old 03-08-2018, 10:13 AM   #30
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Default Re: Disagreeing with Bobby Bentley

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Do you even watch the games. AJ does lack size but is very fast and has very good lateral movement......he can run back kick offs.

AJ didnít get many carries the first half of the season because Rico and Tyíson were mostly splitting carries. What we didnít know at the time is that Rico had been hurt the first half of the season. So once he broke his ankle, AJ saw his carries increase which is why his best games werenít until the second half of the season.
Wow...what are you talking about?? Lateral movement consists of side-to-side moves...like a jump cut...which I've never seen Turner do whether I'm attending every home game or watching the road games on TV. Turner can get good yards when he gets to the outside...but 3rd and 2 is not in his wheelhouse.

I didn't see him do anything special in the bowl game...just sayin'. And again, he had his best games against POOR rushing defenses.

Additionally, returning kick-offs and being able to find a running lane in between the tackles are two entirely different subject matters. Remember, Turner only averaged about 17yds on his KRs...not exactly All-SEC numbers.

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im glad you hope he "contributes". Thats pretty darn backhanded for what he has contributed so far.
Call it backhanded all you want...I'm of the opinion that if Dowdle can stay healthy, he is our most talented RB and needs at least 15-20 carries per game...with Williams, Denson, Turner, etc...getting the remainder of carries.

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Old 03-08-2018, 11:23 AM   #31
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Default Re: Disagreeing with Bobby Bentley

May not be the popular opinion, but perhaps the answer is that we just aren't that talented at RB?

Yeah, Bama and UGA and Clemson to a degree uses a committee approach--that works when your committee is top talent.

However, we have 3-4 guys who maybe, could possibly, be a starter. Some who are good in pass protection, some who aren't. If anyone had enough upside, the deficits could be overlooked. We have some talented guys, but we don't have a consistent standout.

Personally, I look for this year to be somewhat better with the running game because you'd almost have to try to be worse, but I'm not holding my breath to be in the top half of the SEC, either.
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Old 03-08-2018, 11:54 AM   #32
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Default Re: Disagreeing with Bobby Bentley

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Originally Posted by bcgibson75 View Post
Evidence?/?...yes, please...let's look at the evidence.

Turner's best games were against Tenn, Vandy & Florida.

Tenn and Vandy...2 of the worst rush defenses in the SEC in 2017.

Florida - had just fired their coach, gotten blasted at Mizzou, no motivation, no help from their offense, and UF's defense was not that good to begin with.

I'm not saying he's not a good RB. He runs hard, but he is limited in his lateral movement, and has a hard time finding room to maneuver through the point of attack when the OLine doesn't create a clear running lane. A healthy Dowdle has at least shown me that.

IMO, Turner would not be a starting RB at any other SEC school...which pains me to say...I like the young man...by all accounts he works hard, plays harder & has made plays over his career at USC.

All that to say, we need a stable of productive RBs to have balance on the offense...instead of defenses putting 6 in the box / dropping 5 DBs to cover Deebo/Edwards/etc...and still keeping our running game in check...if we're going to contend for the East in '18, we gotta have some weapons at RB.

GO COCKS!!
Same thing people at Clemson said about Wayne Gallman who at the same stage had a similar build as Turner and seems to be doing fine even in the NFL. Every RB we had got stonewalled at some point last year as any decent DC could predict our run game. Not a RB in America going to get positive yards when the Defense knows where the ball is going. Regardless what you think he has been our most reliable, dependable back since he has been here and his playing time says as much.
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Old 03-08-2018, 11:55 AM   #33
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Default Re: Disagreeing with Bobby Bentley

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May not be the popular opinion, but perhaps the answer is that we just aren't that talented at RB?

Yeah, Bama and UGA and Clemson to a degree uses a committee approach--that works when your committee is top talent.

However, we have 3-4 guys who maybe, could possibly, be a starter. Some who are good in pass protection, some who aren't. If anyone had enough upside, the deficits could be overlooked. We have some talented guys, but we don't have a consistent standout.

Personally, I look for this year to be somewhat better with the running game because you'd almost have to try to be worse, but I'm not holding my breath to be in the top half of the SEC, either.
Well, you said it. I was going to mention that possibility but didn't want to risk the vicious replies. The assumption has been that we're loaded at RB but maybe we're not. Maybe we've just 3 or 4 ok backs.

Nevertheless, I still think you have to identify your primary back. The guy who gets the majority of the reps. And, by majority, I mean something like UGA (a 60/40 split with another back). No, our backs are nowhere near as good as UGA's...not in the same galaxy...but I believe you still need a primary. Last year's approach was just helter skelter. Give this guy a couple carries, that guy 3 or 4 carries, this other guy a couple carries, back to the first guy for a carry, etc. There were several times where we had a back rip off 3 or 4 really good runs in a row, and they'd pull him, just as he was getting into a rhythm. Then the other guy came in and got tackled for a loss or no gain. Made me pull my hair out. RBs feed of rhythm.
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Old 03-08-2018, 12:54 PM   #34
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Default Re: Disagreeing with Bobby Bentley

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Same thing people at Clemson said about Wayne Gallman who at the same stage had a similar build as Turner
Awww, man...come on...that is just not accurate. Clemson fans loved Gallman from the bounce after his Fresh season.

Wayne Gallman - 6'1" played at about 215 pds at Clemson...gained over 3,000 yards in 3 seasons up there...left after Junior year and drafted in the 4th round

AJ Turner - 5'10" plays at 190 pounds...just over 1,000 yards in 2 seasons at USC....averaging 4.8 yds per carry...pretty good average.

Gallman was a bigger, physical back who had good cutting ability and made a living between the tackles off of the zone read.

Turner is good back...and relies mostly on his speed to do his damage...but he doesn't have the measurables that Gallman had at Clemson.

BTW - Dowdle has averaged 5.1 yds per carry over his 2 seasons...about the same number of carries as Turner.

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Old 03-08-2018, 01:23 PM   #35
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Default Re: Disagreeing with Bobby Bentley

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May not be the popular opinion, but perhaps the answer is that we just aren't that talented at RB?

Yeah, Bama and UGA and Clemson to a degree uses a committee approach--that works when your committee is top talent.

However, we have 3-4 guys who maybe, could possibly, be a starter. Some who are good in pass protection, some who aren't. If anyone had enough upside, the deficits could be overlooked. We have some talented guys, but we don't have a consistent standout.

Personally, I look for this year to be somewhat better with the running game because you'd almost have to try to be worse, but I'm not holding my breath to be in the top half of the SEC, either.
a healthy rico is a top caliber back..bentley said that williams just needs to do in games, what he does in practice. he said that williams is getting over the issue. to me, thats two very talented backs..throw in aj and mon in the fourth quarter when its haf outside and i think we have a good group of backs.

you cant base every eval off of what uga has. that is just dumb. im calling it now, our backs will be fine.
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Old 03-08-2018, 03:16 PM   #36
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Default Re: Disagreeing with Bobby Bentley

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a healthy rico is a top caliber back..bentley said that williams just needs to do in games, what he does in practice. he said that williams is getting over the issue. to me, thats two very talented backs..throw in aj and mon in the fourth quarter when its haf outside and i think we have a good group of backs.

you cant base every eval off of what uga has. that is just dumb. im calling it now, our backs will be fine.
That's all I hope for. Just be average. Convert 3rd and 1. Give me a running game in the first quarter to take pressure off of Bentley. Don't have an offense predicated on your QB completing 85% of their passes to be effective.
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Old 03-08-2018, 04:11 PM   #37
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Default Re: Disagreeing with Bobby Bentley

Dowdle is the man but he is injury prone.
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Old 03-08-2018, 10:44 PM   #38
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Default Re: Disagreeing with Bobby Bentley

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Originally Posted by bcgibson75 View Post
Wow...what are you talking about?? Lateral movement consists of side-to-side moves...like a jump cut...which I've never seen Turner do whether I'm attending every home game or watching the road games on TV. Turner can get good yards when he gets to the outside...but 3rd and 2 is not in his wheelhouse.

I didn't see him do anything special in the bowl game...just sayin'. And again, he had his best games against POOR rushing defenses.

Additionally, returning kick-offs and being able to find a running lane in between the tackles are two entirely different subject matters. Remember, Turner only averaged about 17yds on his KRs...not exactly All-SEC numbers.



Call it backhanded all you want...I'm of the opinion that if Dowdle can stay healthy, he is our most talented RB and needs at least 15-20 carries per game...with Williams, Denson, Turner, etc...getting the remainder of carries.

GO COCKS!!
The reason AJ didn’t get a lot of carries in the bowl game is because Rico was back. How many different times do you need this explained to you. When Rico was playing, AJ didn’t get a lot of carries.

Also, AJ had a number of runs where he would break the LOS, then cut outside to give himself more running room.
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Old 03-08-2018, 10:54 PM   #39
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Default Re: Disagreeing with Bobby Bentley

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im glad you hope he "contributes". Thats pretty darn backhanded for what he has contributed so far.
He put the team on his back in the second half of the Tennessee game. We don’t win without him.
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Old 03-09-2018, 10:07 AM   #40
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Default Re: Disagreeing with Bobby Bentley

I think Rico is a lot better than the other two and is a big reason we won our two good wins last season. Although, I can see Tyson impressing because he seems to be the biggest, strongest and maybe faster than Rico.

Hopefully, Turner can add a little more muscle and be even more productive on offense. He's a great gamecock and really adds a lot of value on offense and special teams.
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