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Old 03-16-2017, 01:18 PM   #61
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Default Re: Any chance Nunez comes back?

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Originally Posted by CoastCocky View Post
You were suggesting our coaches intentionally throw in the towel last season. To me, that is delusional.
What? Where did I say that? You had to go through some serious mental gymnastics to get that out of what I said.

And those are the two options? Play Bmac or Bentley or it means the coaches are throwing in the towel? I don't live in lifeboats and I don't make decisions based on lifeboat situations.

That is a silly statement, incredibly intellectually dishonest and worse lacking in any semblance of charity when having a discussion about a simple subject.

Stop being so concerned with "winning" the conversation and focus on enjoying the exchange of ideas.
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Old 03-16-2017, 01:20 PM   #62
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Default Re: Any chance Nunez comes back?

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Originally Posted by CoastCocky View Post
but neither Brandon nor Nunez were mistreated.
There are many (including some within the program) that would disagree.

In any case, I think my positions are clear, you disagree and are attached to your position. That's cool. I don't really know if there is anything else to say about it.
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Old 03-16-2017, 01:22 PM   #63
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Default Re: Any chance Nunez comes back?

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Originally Posted by cockykarma View Post
What? Where did I say that? You had to go through some serious mental gymnastics to get that out of what I said.

And those are the two options? Play Bmac or Bentley or it means the coaches are throwing in the towel? I don't live in lifeboats and I don't make decisions based on lifeboat situations.

That is a silly statement, incredibly intellectually dishonest and worse lacking in any semblance of charity when having a discussion about a simple subject.

Stop being so concerned with "winning" the conversation and focus on enjoying the exchange of ideas.
Based on your statement, the only logical outcome would be that Orth be our starting QB. Starting him for the duration of the season would have been tanking it because we had better options (well, option).

We all know it's not ideal to have to start a true freshman, especially in the SEC, but the QB cupboards were bare otherwise. Don't blame Champ for the roster he inherited. I don't think coaches should coach to win today with no consideration for the future, and I don't think that's what Champ has done.

What negatives REALLY came from starting Jake last season? Several games of experience?
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Old 03-16-2017, 01:24 PM   #64
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Default Re: Any chance Nunez comes back?

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Originally Posted by cockykarma View Post
There are many (including some within the program) that would disagree.

In any case, I think my positions are clear, you disagree and are attached to your position. That's cool. I don't really know if there is anything else to say about it.
Mistreated how? Brandon's play did not merit further playing time. No matter the level of competition he was going up against. I like him and all, but he was terrible at QB. Nunez simply had an injury in spring and got passed up on the depth chart. That's how life goes.
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Old 03-16-2017, 01:56 PM   #65
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Default Re: Any chance Nunez comes back?

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Still, the difference in coming off of 5 wins and coming off of 6 wins... I think that would be negligible in the recruiting world. No more damage than being STOMPED by Clemson and then losing is a crappy bowl to USF.
There's a huge world of difference in terms of changing the national perception and narrative. Muschamp had to have a splashy year to quell some of the "bad hire" chatter. The long game was not the 2017 recruiting class but 2018. USC is still on Xavier Thomas' radar even with Clemson winning the national title because he is seeing tangible results on the field. A close loss in a crappy bowl game against one of the top offenses in the country is a lot better story than we redshirted our best players, took our lumps, won 3, 4, or 5 games and will only be marginally better next year. Recruits see that they will get every opportunity for immediate playing time, that Muschamp has made a commitment to win and win now, and that he is not afraid to let the best player play.
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Old 03-16-2017, 02:08 PM   #66
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Default Re: Any chance Nunez comes back?

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Originally Posted by CoastCocky View Post
Based on your statement, the only logical outcome would be that Orth be our starting QB. Starting him for the duration of the season would have been tanking it because we had better options (well, option).

We all know it's not ideal to have to start a true freshman, especially in the SEC, but the QB cupboards were bare otherwise. Don't blame Champ for the roster he inherited. I don't think coaches should coach to win today with no consideration for the future, and I don't think that's what Champ has done.

What negatives REALLY came from starting Jake last season? Several games of experience?
As I said, it's clear we are not going to agree. You are on the Champ can do no wrong train.

The cupboard was not bare. Muschamp was set on Bmac and ultimately Bentley. Which if we were talking year 2, I would be good.

The negatives are that you burned a year of eligibility for what appears to be a good QB... in exchange maybe a win and if I am being generous, 2 wins. You exposed him to injury (luckily, he appears to be tough), you give opponents film to pick up on his tendencies, the loss of a young/inexperienced talented FB and baseball player and one hell of wildcat option at 2nd string QB.

As far as being mistreated, I would have to go into a few areas that I do not want to completely answer this question. So, let me just say that while I admit to making the comment, other than what you can easily find on the internet, I do not wish to back up my comment. You can of course, feel free to completely take that and discredit, clown and or make fun of the comment. That is fine, it won't hurt my feelings.
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Old 03-16-2017, 02:13 PM   #67
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Default Re: Any chance Nunez comes back?

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Originally Posted by cockypastor View Post
There's a huge world of difference in terms of changing the national perception and narrative. Muschamp had to have a splashy year to quell some of the "bad hire" chatter. The long game was not the 2017 recruiting class but 2018. USC is still on Xavier Thomas' radar even with Clemson winning the national title because he is seeing tangible results on the field. A close loss in a crappy bowl game against one of the top offenses in the country is a lot better story than we redshirted our best players, took our lumps, won 3, 4, or 5 games and will only be marginally better next year. Recruits see that they will get every opportunity for immediate playing time, that Muschamp has made a commitment to win and win now, and that he is not afraid to let the best player play.
Another way to say this is that Muschamp's character is one in which he is Ok with potentially sacrificing players to save his own ass, egotistical reasons or worse he can't handle the doubters. He was in fact a terrible hire.

Win. Win now. Is a terrible philosophy. It's fly by the seat of your pants. It's overnight popup. It doesn't take the picture as a whole into account.

But, it is so clear that people here can't get past the tribal 'conform" nature. Scared to be critical because of what it says about you. In any case, I am done with this topic. My feelings are clear.
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Old 03-16-2017, 02:24 PM   #68
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Default Re: Any chance Nunez comes back?

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Originally Posted by cockykarma View Post
Another way to say this is that Muschamp's character is one in which he is Ok with potentially sacrificing players to save his own ass, egotistical reasons or worse he can't handle the doubters. He was in fact a terrible hire.

Win. Win now. Is a terrible philosophy. It's fly by the seat of your pants. It's overnight popup. It doesn't take the picture as a whole into account.

But, it is so clear that people here can't get past the tribal 'conform" nature. Scared to be critical because of what it says about you. In any case, I am done with this topic. My feelings are clear.
You are arguing the fact that b/c Jake lost 1/2 season of eligibility, that means Champ was sacrificing players to save his own butt. Really? Getting to a bowl game this season was huge for everyone, not just Champ. The fan based needed it. The coaching staff needed. But, mostly, the team needed it. It gives radically different psychological outlook for the players than if we had eked by with 3 or 4 wins and came into the season with a big fat question mark at QB. If you thinking getting a bowl was only important for Champ, you're missing the point, big team. You can't overestimate the value of the players going into the season knowing they have a competent leader at QB.

Also, you're grossly overestimating the value of both Brandon and Nunez to draw your conclusions.
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Old 03-16-2017, 02:32 PM   #69
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Default Re: Any chance Nunez comes back?

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Scared to be critical because of what it says about you.
Or wise enough to keep one's mouth shut lest one looks like a cry baby.
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Old 03-16-2017, 03:24 PM   #70
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Default Re: Any chance Nunez comes back?

SHUTTING THIS THREAD DOWN TOO BEFORE SOMEBODY GETS SENT AWAY
FOR A WHILE. THERE'S NO RULES ON THIS SITE THAT SAYS A MEMBER
DOESN'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO STATE THEIR NEGATIVE OPINIONS ABOUT ANY
OF THE PLAYERS, OR COACHES OR OTHER MEMBERS, BUT THERE IS A CLEAR
RULE ON BASHING OUR COACHES OR PLAYERS. I'D BE WELL WITHIN THE
GUIDELINES TO SEND SOMEONE PACKING NOW BUT I'M TRYING TO CUT SOME
BREAKS HERE. CONSIDER IT A WARNING AND A 2ND CHANCE !
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