CockyTalk

Welcome to Cockytalk!

Thank you for visiting our forum. As a guest, you have limited access to view some discussion and articles. By joining our free community, you will be able to view all discussions and articles, post your own topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload photos, participate in Pick'Em contests and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today!!

If you have any problems registering or logging in, please contact our Admins. Thanks!

Go Back   CockyTalk > Gamecocks Sports > The Cock Pit

Today's Top 10
Posters (by posts)Threads (by views)Newest Posts Gamecock Headlines 
carolina_corpsman
SanAntonioCock
2k15
ShutTheSuccop
RGHoskins
AtlGAMECOCK
TastyLicks
ccured
rabid cock
Captain9Dragons
Why don't we run any (981)
Wildcat? (710)
Cack's Toast of the (683)
MJ Webb (644)
Charges revealed for (601)
Freeeze: What I did (542)
Should we go hurry-u (515)
College Station? (480)
Arkansas Kickoff Tim (395)
2018 - Mario Dungey (358)
Jake Bentley analysis
Should we go hurry-up or
Champions of life
Our chances against aTm
Muschamp Presser question
Snoop's take on how the n
Freeeze: What I did was w
Charges revealed for susp
Cack's Toast of the Game
College Station?


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-06-2017, 11:49 AM   #21
Emery
1st Team All-SEC
 
Emery's Avatar
 
Male

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lexington SC
Posts: 3,740
CockyCash: 1950
Emery is USC mascot materialEmery is USC mascot materialEmery is USC mascot materialEmery is USC mascot materialEmery is USC mascot materialEmery is USC mascot materialEmery is USC mascot materialEmery is USC mascot materialEmery is USC mascot materialEmery is USC mascot materialEmery is USC mascot material
Default Re: Roper attributes 17 of 41 sacks allowed to QBs

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConwayGamecock View Post
Not really. Why did Coach Roper bring it up to begin with, if its pointless? Why is the Offensive Coordinator focusing on it if it's pointless?

And I know you're referring to Coastcocky's point about where we'd rank had all the sacks the QBs accounted for were removed. I think his point is that like always, the truth is somewhere in the middle of what we perceive. Coach Roper is focusing on the sacks because he wants them reduced down. He wants the QB(s) to do a better job of getting rid of the ball, audibling out of bad plays to account for blitzers, etc.

He is also saying that perhaps the OL didn't perform quite as badly as it was perceived to last season, and that with the addition of improved play from the QB(s) to reduce the sacks they allowed, overall we won't be so bad in QB sacks allowed next season.

And he also is saying that none of that really cares about what the other FBS teams do or not do......
Again, without knowing the percent of sacks that other teams (or actually that Roper watching film of other teams) would attribute to the qb, then this is pointless.

I agree with you that he's trying to support to the OL, but why? Is it better to call out your freshman qb for needing to make better decisions in the media than to just move on and accept the fact that the OL is better than perceived? Hell, we all have eyes. Raise your hand if you felt like Bentley or the OL were the weaker of the two.

And now, what if next season the sacks are better? Will he then put out a statement next year that Bentley made better decision but the OL didn't get any better?

Here's the problem--we were 119th in sacks allowed. We gave up 41 sacks and only managed 21 of our own. The teams below us: Miami of Ohio, UTSA, North Texas, Texas State, UMass, Louisville, Maryland, and San Jose State. Fix half of Bentley's mistakes (which would be a great), it gets us to 97-100th in sacks allowed. I would still argue being 100 out of 128 teams isn't improvement.

I just think things like this may belong in a film room or position meetings and not as a method to spin facts to the media.
Emery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2017, 12:41 PM   #22
CoastCocky
Banned
 
CoastCocky's Avatar
 
Female

Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 2,033
CockyCash: 500
CoastCocky is USC mascot materialCoastCocky is USC mascot materialCoastCocky is USC mascot materialCoastCocky is USC mascot materialCoastCocky is USC mascot materialCoastCocky is USC mascot materialCoastCocky is USC mascot materialCoastCocky is USC mascot materialCoastCocky is USC mascot materialCoastCocky is USC mascot materialCoastCocky is USC mascot material
Default Re: Roper attributes 17 of 41 sacks allowed to QBs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emery View Post
Again, without knowing the percent of sacks that other teams (or actually that Roper watching film of other teams) would attribute to the qb, then this is pointless.

I agree with you that he's trying to support to the OL, but why? Is it better to call out your freshman qb for needing to make better decisions in the media than to just move on and accept the fact that the OL is better than perceived? Hell, we all have eyes. Raise your hand if you felt like Bentley or the OL were the weaker of the two.

And now, what if next season the sacks are better? Will he then put out a statement next year that Bentley made better decision but the OL didn't get any better?

Here's the problem--we were 119th in sacks allowed. We gave up 41 sacks and only managed 21 of our own. The teams below us: Miami of Ohio, UTSA, North Texas, Texas State, UMass, Louisville, Maryland, and San Jose State. Fix half of Bentley's mistakes (which would be a great), it gets us to 97-100th in sacks allowed. I would still argue being 100 out of 128 teams isn't improvement.

I just think things like this may belong in a film room or position meetings and not as a method to spin facts to the media.
Have you ever watched football or listened to a post-game or midweek presser? Ever? Coaches routinely cite statistics...things they did well, things they didn't do well. And it's quite routine, common even, for coaches and media to put statistics into perspective as far as where you rank in a particular category relative to other teams. It's utterly irrelevant to know what other teams # of sacks are attributable to the QB for purposes of this discussion. I feel like you don't really have a point so you're trying to muddy the water by dragging other teams into the discussion. Duh. We all know nothing happens in a vacuum. The take-home message is: our QBs allowed a significant number of sacks. The reference to rankings was merely illustrative, but you've really latched onto it for some reason.

Nobody would have batted an eye had Roper come out said the OL gave up too many sacks and needed to improve pass blocking. But, for some reason, you're really taking it very personally that he's attributing some sacks to the QB. And, really, he's just incriminating himself, as he's the QB coach. So, actually all he was doing was providing some self-assessment. That's fine by me.

By your standard, our coaches should never comment publicly on specific aspects of the team that need to be improved.
CoastCocky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2017, 01:15 PM   #23
Emery
1st Team All-SEC
 
Emery's Avatar
 
Male

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lexington SC
Posts: 3,740
CockyCash: 1950
Emery is USC mascot materialEmery is USC mascot materialEmery is USC mascot materialEmery is USC mascot materialEmery is USC mascot materialEmery is USC mascot materialEmery is USC mascot materialEmery is USC mascot materialEmery is USC mascot materialEmery is USC mascot materialEmery is USC mascot material
Default Re: Roper attributes 17 of 41 sacks allowed to QBs

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoastCocky View Post
Have you ever watched football or listened to a post-game or midweek presser? Ever? Coaches routinely cite statistics...things they did well, things they didn't do well. And it's quite routine, common even, for coaches and media to put statistics into perspective as far as where you rank in a particular category relative to other teams. It's utterly irrelevant to know what other teams # of sacks are attributable to the QB for purposes of this discussion. I feel like you don't really have a point so you're trying to muddy the water by dragging other teams into the discussion. Duh. We all know nothing happens in a vacuum. The take-home message is: our QBs allowed a significant number of sacks. The reference to rankings was merely illustrative, but you've really latched onto it for some reason.

Nobody would have batted an eye had Roper come out said the OL gave up too many sacks and needed to improve pass blocking. But, for some reason, you're really taking it very personally that he's attributing some sacks to the QB. And, really, he's just incriminating himself, as he's the QB coach. So, actually all he was doing was providing some self-assessment. That's fine by me.

By your standard, our coaches should never comment publicly on specific aspects of the team that need to be improved.
You're missing the point, so I've bolded it for you in your response and will break it down:

our QBs allowed a significant number of sacks.

In order to make that statement, you have to know what is significant, and thus higher than average. So, by making the statement you are inherently making a comparison.

Here's another way of saying it: Our QBs allowed 41% of our total sacks. In order to say that's more than average, you have to know what other team's numbers are. If it's 10%, then yes, that's a lot. If it's 40%, then no, it's not. I would argue that a freshman QB who only gave 1.5 sacks/game is pretty good.

And I included the other stats as a point to say that even if Roper manages to get Bentley to drastically improve in decision making, that alone won't fix the problem.

And I have no problem with coaches giving statistics: We've got to do better on third down, we give up too many sacks, etc. I just fail to see the point in singling out a player. Say I'm a small business owner and have a staff meeting. I've got one guy delivering goods and I make a statement that says that one guy needs to do better. Does singling him out during a meeting or conference really help him? In fact, I would say the only thing that does is to try to pass the blame to a single person that yes, I'm responsible for, but by mentioning the fact, I'm already building a scapegoat if my business suffers. The next board meeting when I have to respond to questions about my poor performance, I already got someone to point a finger at.

And it has nothing to do with Roper or Jake or any particular player or coach. I hated it when Spurrier did it, I'll hate it whenever someone else does it. I just don't see it as an effective motivating tactic. Just leave it with the coach speak of: We just got to coach better.
Emery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2017, 08:23 PM   #24
Ace Dilcock
2nd Team All-American
 
Ace Dilcock's Avatar
 
Male

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mt. Pleasant
Posts: 8,558
CockyCash: 840
Ace Dilcock is USC mascot materialAce Dilcock is USC mascot materialAce Dilcock is USC mascot materialAce Dilcock is USC mascot materialAce Dilcock is USC mascot materialAce Dilcock is USC mascot materialAce Dilcock is USC mascot materialAce Dilcock is USC mascot materialAce Dilcock is USC mascot materialAce Dilcock is USC mascot materialAce Dilcock is USC mascot material
Default Re: Roper attributes 17 of 41 sacks allowed to QBs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emery View Post
You're missing the point, so I've bolded it for you in your response and will break it down:

our QBs allowed a significant number of sacks.

In order to make that statement, you have to know what is significant, and thus higher than average. So, by making the statement you are inherently making a comparison.

Here's another way of saying it: Our QBs allowed 41% of our total sacks. In order to say that's more than average, you have to know what other team's numbers are. If it's 10%, then yes, that's a lot. If it's 40%, then no, it's not. I would argue that a freshman QB who only gave 1.5 sacks/game is pretty good.

And I included the other stats as a point to say that even if Roper manages to get Bentley to drastically improve in decision making, that alone won't fix the problem.

And I have no problem with coaches giving statistics: We've got to do better on third down, we give up too many sacks, etc. I just fail to see the point in singling out a player. Say I'm a small business owner and have a staff meeting. I've got one guy delivering goods and I make a statement that says that one guy needs to do better. Does singling him out during a meeting or conference really help him? In fact, I would say the only thing that does is to try to pass the blame to a single person that yes, I'm responsible for, but by mentioning the fact, I'm already building a scapegoat if my business suffers. The next board meeting when I have to respond to questions about my poor performance, I already got someone to point a finger at.

And it has nothing to do with Roper or Jake or any particular player or coach. I hated it when Spurrier did it, I'll hate it whenever someone else does it. I just don't see it as an effective motivating tactic. Just leave it with the coach speak of: We just got to coach better.
He did not single out a single player.

We used three different QBs last year. Two were true Freshmen and tje other was a former walk-on - not exactly an experienced group. Bentley said he learned a lot about how to read the D this Spring, and how to adjust blocking schemes, change plays, go to hot reads. He did not know those things this past season. Think that resulted in a few more sacks? You betcha.

And the QBs are not the only other issue beside the O Line - we started two different Freshmen at RB, a Sophomore who played WR the year before at TE, and neither position blocked well. They will be better with experience but gave up sacks last year.

And some of the sacks would be coverage sacks when our young WRs ran the wrong route or could not get open. Not on the QB or O Line.

People automatically blame the O Line for sacks and they get trashed daily on this board and others. Pointing out that the sacks are not all on the O Line is not trashing Bentley, it is defending a group that has played well and does not deserve all of the criticism.
Ace Dilcock is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Provided by SLB Development