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Old 03-30-2017, 09:30 AM   #1
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Default Roper attributes 17 of 41 sacks allowed to QBs

Not to fully exonerate the OL or Elliott, but that is a significant number. The 41 sacks allowed put us at 118th in the nation. If you eliminate the sacks attributed to the QBs, that would have put as at 41 nationally. Of course, it's unreasonable to expect that we'd eliminate all the QB-attributed sacks, but it was certainly a major factor in that overall number. According to Champ, Bentley rarely changed the play or protection at the line of scrimmage due to his inexperience. So we should see a positive change here.

Sounds like Roper is on top of it, with a goal of getting us down to sacks allowed on fewer than 5% of our plays.

http://www.greenvilleonline.com/stor...acks/99433440/
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Old 03-30-2017, 01:43 PM   #2
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Default Re: Roper attributes 17 of 41 sacks allowed to QBs

It's easy to say that if Bentley eliminated those sacks that we would be 41 in the nation. However, if you eliminated every sack that was supposedly due to the QB from every team, it would probably put us back to 118. As well, he may have saved us 15 sacks by good decisions too. That line was horrible. It was open floodgates for most of the year. Glad coach Wolf is back.
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Old 03-30-2017, 02:03 PM   #3
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Default Re: Roper attributes 17 of 41 sacks allowed to QBs

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Originally Posted by cockymac View Post
It's easy to say that if Bentley eliminated those sacks that we would be 41 in the nation. However, if you eliminated every sack that was supposedly due to the QB from every team, it would probably put us back to 118. As well, he may have saved us 15 sacks by good decisions too. That line was horrible. It was open floodgates for most of the year. Glad coach Wolf is back.
That's a silly and illogical argument.

You do realize that teams rise and fall in the rankings of statistical categories all the time?
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Old 03-30-2017, 03:24 PM   #4
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Default Re: Roper attributes 17 of 41 sacks allowed to QBs

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That's a silly and illogical argument.

You do realize that teams rise and fall in the rankings of statistical categories all the time?
What he's saying is that without knowing the percent of sacks other teams attribute to the qb, or even what kind of criteria Roper is using to make a statement, this is pointless.
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Old 03-30-2017, 08:52 PM   #5
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Default Re: Roper attributes 17 of 41 sacks allowed to QBs

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That's a silly and illogical argument.

You do realize that teams rise and fall in the rankings of statistical categories all the time?
It's 100% logical. I don't think you understand logic. As the poster above explained, if you allowed for us to remove everything sack that was due to the QB, then you have a meaningless number. How do we know what every other team has for this number? It's like saying a QB has a lower completion percentage than other QBs because his receivers drop the ball too much. The other QBs have drops too. It could be more, it could be less. Maybe a QB with a higher percentage actually had more drops from his receivers. You can't change the way you figure stats for one team and compare it to stats that aren't changed for others, and then think it shows your team is better. Not logical.
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Old 03-30-2017, 08:58 PM   #6
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Default Re: Roper attributes 17 of 41 sacks allowed to QBs

oh brother
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Old 03-30-2017, 11:33 PM   #7
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Default Re: Roper attributes 17 of 41 sacks allowed to QBs

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Originally Posted by cockymac View Post
It's 100% logical. I don't think you understand logic. As the poster above explained, if you allowed for us to remove everything sack that was due to the QB, then you have a meaningless number. How do we know what every other team has for this number? It's like saying a QB has a lower completion percentage than other QBs because his receivers drop the ball too much. The other QBs have drops too. It could be more, it could be less. Maybe a QB with a higher percentage actually had more drops from his receivers. You can't change the way you figure stats for one team and compare it to stats that aren't changed for others, and then think it shows your team is better. Not logical.
17 is a very high number and we had two true Freshmen QBs play most of the snaps. QBs learn fairly early in their careers about blocking schemes, reading defenses, hot reads. Supposedly, Bentley has gone a long way towards mastering those things this Spring.

Is that a high number compared to other teams? Pretty safe bet. Even if a lot of other teams had true Freshmen QBs, they would be much better by the end of the year. We essentially started over at QB after 6 games, so Bentley was still very green at the end of the year.

Here is another thing that I would like to see analyzed - how many of the remaining 24 sacks were due to either the RB or TE? We had a RS Freshman and a true Freshman starting at RB, and a true Sophomore who played WR as a Freshman - whose weakness was blocking. RBs can usually run well as true Freshmen, it is the blocking that takes longer to pick up.

Finally, we had a shortage of talent, depth and experience at WR. How much of our problems (and the QB's) were due to the WR not getting open or running the wrong route?

People love to hate on the O Line but a lot of it is undeserved - the skill guys caused a lot of the sacks. But the skill guys will be much better and more experienced in 2017 - and the O Line will look much better as a result.
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Old 03-31-2017, 02:35 AM   #8
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Default Re: Roper attributes 17 of 41 sacks allowed to QBs

I don't trust any blame being assigned by those who blame could also be assigned. How many sack can be attributed to because of bad play calling from the sideline? Anyway, the biggest problem with OL was their run blocking was horrible, which means we run and get stoned at the los, which means we are in passing downs too often and the defense can pin our ears back which makes it no wonder why we are taking sacks. We didn't turn the ball over that much, that is more important than taking some sacks as is being able to run the ball. Teams with better offensive lines don't put so much pressure on their QBs to take on the entire defense by himself basically and have to have eyes on all sides of his head.

Last edited by EAtMoRTaYtErz; 03-31-2017 at 02:46 AM..
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Old 03-31-2017, 12:20 PM   #9
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Default Re: Roper attributes 17 of 41 sacks allowed to QBs

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I don't trust any blame being assigned by those who blame could also be assigned. How many sack can be attributed to because of bad play calling from the sideline? Anyway, the biggest problem with OL was their run blocking was horrible, which means we run and get stoned at the los, which means we are in passing downs too often and the defense can pin our ears back which makes it no wonder why we are taking sacks. We didn't turn the ball over that much, that is more important than taking some sacks as is being able to run the ball. Teams with better offensive lines don't put so much pressure on their QBs to take on the entire defense by himself basically and have to have eyes on all sides of his head.
Yet Dowdle averaged more yards per game and per carry - easily - than Gallman at Clemson.

It is hard to run if opponents stack the box. It is up to the QB to check out of the play and call something different, alter the blocking schemes, hit the hot read, etc. Bentley was just not far enough along to do those things in 2016.

But if you want to blame experienced and highly rated O Linemen for our offensive woes, or a proven OC, and not lay any blame on a thin group of young skill guys.......well, that is your right to do that.
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Old 03-31-2017, 12:28 PM   #10
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Default Re: Roper attributes 17 of 41 sacks allowed to QBs

I would have rather Roper taken responsibility himself and kept this in house. Jake isn't the type to take this personally but it just seems unnecessary to broadcast stuff like this.


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Old 03-31-2017, 12:36 PM   #11
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Default Re: Roper attributes 17 of 41 sacks allowed to QBs

It could be a challenge to Jake. Jake seems like the type who accepts challenges.

Roper can put all the sacks he wants on the qb, but routes and play calling greatly effective a qb taking sacks. The running game and play action... it's all a system. If your qb is taking too many sacks, you might want to reevaluate how you call your offense...JMHO.
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Old 03-31-2017, 12:53 PM   #12
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Default Re: Roper attributes 17 of 41 sacks allowed to QBs

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It could be a challenge to Jake. Jake seems like the type who accepts challenges.

Roper can put all the sacks he wants on the qb, but routes and play calling greatly effective a qb taking sacks. The running game and play action... it's all a system. If your qb is taking too many sacks, you might want to reevaluate how you call your offense...JMHO.
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Old 03-31-2017, 01:07 PM   #13
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Default Re: Roper attributes 17 of 41 sacks allowed to QBs

Our defensive backs coached said that we would have had more interceptions if the opposing quarterbacks would have thrown more passes to our DBs
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Old 03-31-2017, 01:49 PM   #14
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Default Re: Roper attributes 17 of 41 sacks allowed to QBs

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You can't change the way you figure stats for one team and compare it to stats that aren't changed for others...

I shoot 100% from the floor. If you take out all the misses.
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Old 03-31-2017, 02:11 PM   #15
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Default Re: Roper attributes 17 of 41 sacks allowed to QBs

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That's a silly and illogical argument.

You do realize that teams rise and fall in the rankings of statistical categories all the time?
I thought it was the most logical part of his argument. It's very rare for every team to have a decent line and QB who is fully aware of literally every play. Sure it can be coached, but the same could be said about any team that if the QB played better the O line would look much better
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Old 03-31-2017, 04:33 PM   #16
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Default Re: Roper attributes 17 of 41 sacks allowed to QBs

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I would have rather Roper taken responsibility himself and kept this in house. Jake isn't the type to take this personally but it just seems unnecessary to broadcast stuff like this.


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I take it as defending the O Line. They are catching a lot of static when many of the sacks were not their fault.

He is not blaming the QBs, two of whom were Freshmen. They just lacked the experience to know what to do, simple fact. Bentley has already talked about all of the things he has learned this Spring - how to read defenses and coverages, how to adjust the blocking schemes to counter blitzes, checking to the hot reads on blitzes, etc.

That would have made a big difference against UF or Clemson - instead, Bentley was harassed and people put the blame on the O Line. Which was not fair.
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Old 03-31-2017, 08:28 PM   #17
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Default Re: Roper attributes 17 of 41 sacks allowed to QBs

Let's just say we made a ton of mistakes on offense, and I think we all can agree on that. Will there be improvement this year, absolutely. Certainly there are a lot of reasons for optimissism.
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Old 03-31-2017, 11:10 PM   #18
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Default Re: Roper attributes 17 of 41 sacks allowed to QBs

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Originally Posted by DeepThrees View Post
I would have rather Roper taken responsibility himself and kept this in house. Jake isn't the type to take this personally but it just seems unnecessary to broadcast stuff like this.


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By that logic, a coach could never offer up analysis of his team's performance b/c an acknowledgement of any mistake would have to be perceived as pinning the blame somewhere.

Oddly, if Roper said "Our OL gave up too many sacks" nobody would take offense at that, but would rather wholeheartedly agree and pile on with trashing the OL. Bentley played great, but he's not above criticism. Thankfully, it looks like he took this analysis in stride and wants to make the necessary corrections.

Some posters seem to be taking this obvious analysis by Roper very personally. Why is that? Weirdly, some who are posing as football intellectuals here have revealed themselves to be fools. Every coach knows about where they realistically want to be for certain statistical categories. They look at where they are and see what they need to fix and eliminate to get to where they want to be. In this case, it's reducing the number of sack. More specifically, it's reducing sacks attributed to QB error. "We are currently Xth, but would like to be around Yth."
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Old 03-31-2017, 11:33 PM   #19
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Default Re: Roper attributes 17 of 41 sacks allowed to QBs

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What he's saying is that without knowing the percent of sacks other teams attribute to the qb, or even what kind of criteria Roper is using to make a statement, this is pointless.
Not really. Why did Coach Roper bring it up to begin with, if its pointless? Why is the Offensive Coordinator focusing on it if it's pointless?

And I know you're referring to Coastcocky's point about where we'd rank had all the sacks the QBs accounted for were removed. I think his point is that like always, the truth is somewhere in the middle of what we perceive. Coach Roper is focusing on the sacks because he wants them reduced down. He wants the QB(s) to do a better job of getting rid of the ball, audibling out of bad plays to account for blitzers, etc.

He is also saying that perhaps the OL didn't perform quite as badly as it was perceived to last season, and that with the addition of improved play from the QB(s) to reduce the sacks they allowed, overall we won't be so bad in QB sacks allowed next season.

And he also is saying that none of that really cares about what the other FBS teams do or not do......
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Old 04-06-2017, 11:26 AM   #20
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Default Re: Roper attributes 17 of 41 sacks allowed to QBs

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Let's just say we made a ton of mistakes on offense, and I think we all can agree on that. Will there be improvement this year, absolutely. Certainly there are a lot of reasons for optimissism.
The Offense is going to be very very dangerous this year. We will have the ability to out score most of our opponents.
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