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Old 04-15-2017, 06:55 PM   #41
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Default Re: TE, WR and RB

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Originally Posted by rt3891 View Post
He must have redshirted, didn't here his name last year. He had a pretty decent rating as a recruit.
He got hurt in ecu game. i think.
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:51 PM   #42
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Default Re: TE, WR and RB

Dreak da Freak had a couple of nice catches in one game and then promptly got hurt and redshirted. He would have played a lot and possibly won a starting job before season's end if he stayed healthy.

I would compare him more to a Deebo than a burner - similar size and skill set, athletic, can make the tough catch. The staff is very high on him and I think he was the highest rated of our WRs last year. I think he will start out as Deebo's back-up, give Deebo some rest so Deebo can keep his hammy in good shape. And then give us a quality replacement if Deebo gets hurt again.

I would guess Deebo backed by Randrecous and Chavis Dawkins, Edwards with OrTre and Googer, and then an interesting battle between Shi Smith and Korey Banks at slot with Jerad Washington as a wild card (he has not played in two years due to a broken leg but looked in the Spring game). Chad Terrell redshirts unless someone gets hurt or he wows the staff. But, of course, I could be wrong...
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Old 04-15-2017, 09:29 PM   #43
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Default Re: TE, WR and RB

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Originally Posted by Ace Dilcock View Post
Dreak da Freak had a couple of nice catches in one game and then promptly got hurt and redshirted. He would have played a lot and possibly won a starting job before season's end if he stayed healthy.

I would compare him more to a Deebo than a burner - similar size and skill set, athletic, can make the tough catch. The staff is very high on him and I think he was the highest rated of our WRs last year. I think he will start out as Deebo's back-up, give Deebo some rest so Deebo can keep his hammy in good shape. And then give us a quality replacement if Deebo gets hurt again.

I would guess Deebo backed by Randrecous and Chavis Dawkins, Edwards with OrTre and Googer, and then an interesting battle between Shi Smith and Korey Banks at slot with Jerad Washington as a wild card (he has not played in two years due to a broken leg but looked in the Spring game). Chad Terrell redshirts unless someone gets hurt or he wows the staff. But, of course, I could be wrong...
Sounds good to me!!!
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Old 04-15-2017, 09:38 PM   #44
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Default Re: TE, WR and RB

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Sorry about the facts above
No, just not gonna argue with somebody over a message board. We have a great TE. Period.
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Old 04-15-2017, 09:43 PM   #45
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Default Re: TE, WR and RB

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Originally Posted by Ace Dilcock View Post
Dreak da Freak had a couple of nice catches in one game and then promptly got hurt and redshirted. He would have played a lot and possibly won a starting job before season's end if he stayed healthy.

I would compare him more to a Deebo than a burner - similar size and skill set, athletic, can make the tough catch. The staff is very high on him and I think he was the highest rated of our WRs last year. I think he will start out as Deebo's back-up, give Deebo some rest so Deebo can keep his hammy in good shape. And then give us a quality replacement if Deebo gets hurt again.

I would guess Deebo backed by Randrecous and Chavis Dawkins, Edwards with OrTre and Googer, and then an interesting battle between Shi Smith and Korey Banks at slot with Jerad Washington as a wild card (he has not played in two years due to a broken leg but looked in the Spring game). Chad Terrell redshirts unless someone gets hurt or he wows the staff. But, of course, I could be wrong...
Not that it matters but I do believe Edwards was the highest rated
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Old 04-15-2017, 09:58 PM   #46
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Default Re: TE, WR and RB

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Not that it matters but I do believe Edwards was the highest rated
Yeah, my bad. Dreak was #2 behind Edwards and ahead of Banks, Pollard and Dawkins. But still a talent and a guy that would have played a lot last year if healthy.
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Old 04-15-2017, 11:50 PM   #47
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Default Re: TE, WR and RB

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Originally Posted by cockyboy View Post
No, just not gonna argue with somebody over a message board. We have a great TE. Period.
I'm not saying he isn't a good player. He absolutely is that. He just needs more time to develop into one of the best TE in the country. He's not there yet.
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Old 04-16-2017, 02:43 AM   #48
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Default Re: TE, WR and RB

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Originally Posted by conwaycock2 View Post
We're not "overloaded" at a single position on the entire roster. Muschamp inherited a football team that was low on overall talent & almost totally devoid of talent at certain positions and/or had no depth (QB, WR, DB, etc) To his credit he has brought in some proven playmakers & some guys who quite obviously are more talented than the guys they replaced.

Using the eye test, RB is in much, much better shape. We're above average in the SEC there imo. And about the only thing I'd disagree with in Nurye's post is that they are not small body types. Bentley said the other day that Williams & Dowdle were both in the 220 lb range. WR, no better than average at this point although Deebo could play for anybody when healthy. Average would be miles better than two years ago. Still need more speed there. TE has some guys who can catch in Hurst & Crosby & Pollard was impressive in the G&B Game. But like others correctly pointed out, blocking has been an issue.

This offense WILL be better this year, period imo. But if any Gamecock fan thinks other teams are sitting around worrying about how to stop this onslaught of skill people we have then they need a reality check. Muschamp has done a really good job of shoring up many areas of this team but we didn't get here overnight & we've still got a ways to go. We're not at the point of overwhelming our opponents with talent by a long shot either offensively & most certainly not defensively. There was a massive gap between where we were & respectably by SEC standards, overloaded is not even in the equation at this point but I do think we'll get there with this staff. Overall I'm optimistic about the future.
I agree on many aspects of what you posted: the biggest improvement does appear to be at RB: last season pre-Bentley we averaged 212 YPG in the first 6 games, with only 2 passing TDs. We averaged scoring 14 PPG. In the final 7 gms we really didn't improve much on passing yds, averaging only 214 YPG, but we did throw 10 TDs in those 7 gms, so that was a substantial improvement.

The biggest improvement offensively was in running the ball, where we averaged 70+ YPG more in the final 7 gms than what we averaged in the first 6 gms. We also scored 13 rushing TDs in the final 7 gms as opposed to scoring 7 in the first 6 gms.

So the point production - the one thing that REALLY decides if a team wins or loses a game - really turned up a notch as the season advanced. USC averaged scoring 26.6 PPG in the final 7 gms, and 34.4 PPG in 5 of those 7. I feel the improved run game was the major factor there, but also being better able to generate touchdowns in the red zone played a role. The team learned its roles in tight situations as the season progressed.

Still, while I also agree that ultimately the WR/TE units may at best be average next season, the potential for them is much better than that. It returns its top 3 receivers, so it has the wealth of experience and leadership in terms of production on the field. But it also adds to that threesome quite a bit of depth that wasn't existent last season.

Last season Samuel, Hurst, and Edwards accounted for 61% of receptions, 72% of receiving yds, and 50% of receiving touchdowns. And if you add a 4th player in Crosby to that group, then you have 10 of the total 12 passing touchdowns accounted for by just 4 receivers.

So we had some receivers that were productive, but after them the pickings got slim. This season we return those three but add Davis, Dawkins, Banks, Washington, Googer, Pollard, and Crosby that all had at least a taste of CFB last season, and hopefully will add more to the depth. Then we add the incoming class of OrTre and Shi Smith, Terrell, and Register. OrTre was able to participate in spring camp as well as winter and summer conditioning programs, so he gets the head start.

Several of those returning receivers didn't produce much last season, for various reasons. They were red-shirted, injured, or just didn't see the field much. Perhaps they were slow to pick up the playbook. And for all we know, they may not amount to much again next season, or the incoming 4* WRs end up red-shirting. Hopefully a number of them end up being bigger factors for the offense, because we have a talented QB that can make passes, and a solid depth of RBs that can take defensive pressure off of them...
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Old 04-16-2017, 03:32 AM   #49
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Default Re: TE, WR and RB

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Originally Posted by ConwayGamecock View Post
I agree on many aspects of what you posted: the biggest improvement does appear to be at RB: last season pre-Bentley we averaged 212 YPG in the first 6 games, with only 2 passing TDs. We averaged scoring 14 PPG. In the final 7 gms we really didn't improve much on passing yds, averaging only 214 YPG, but we did throw 10 TDs in those 7 gms, so that was a substantial improvement.

The biggest improvement offensively was in running the ball, where we averaged 70+ YPG more in the final 7 gms than what we averaged in the first 6 gms. We also scored 13 rushing TDs in the final 7 gms as opposed to scoring 7 in the first 6 gms.

So the point production - the one thing that REALLY decides if a team wins or loses a game - really turned up a notch as the season advanced. USC averaged scoring 26.6 PPG in the final 7 gms, and 34.4 PPG in 5 of those 7. I feel the improved run game was the major factor there, but also being better able to generate touchdowns in the red zone played a role. The team learned its roles in tight situations as the season progressed.

Still, while I also agree that ultimately the WR/TE units may at best be average next season, the potential for them is much better than that. It returns its top 3 receivers, so it has the wealth of experience and leadership in terms of production on the field. But it also adds to that threesome quite a bit of depth that wasn't existent last season.

Last season Samuel, Hurst, and Edwards accounted for 61% of receptions, 72% of receiving yds, and 50% of receiving touchdowns. And if you add a 4th player in Crosby to that group, then you have 10 of the total 12 passing touchdowns accounted for by just 4 receivers.

So we had some receivers that were productive, but after them the pickings got slim. This season we return those three but add Davis, Dawkins, Banks, Washington, Googer, Pollard, and Crosby that all had at least a taste of CFB last season, and hopefully will add more to the depth. Then we add the incoming class of OrTre and Shi Smith, Terrell, and Register. OrTre was able to participate in spring camp as well as winter and summer conditioning programs, so he gets the head start.

Several of those returning receivers didn't produce much last season, for various reasons. They were red-shirted, injured, or just didn't see the field much. Perhaps they were slow to pick up the playbook. And for all we know, they may not amount to much again next season, or the incoming 4* WRs end up red-shirting. Hopefully a number of them end up being bigger factors for the offense, because we have a talented QB that can make passes, and a solid depth of RBs that can take defensive pressure off of them...
I konw we werent that great but damn man, you make us sounds like the worst of the worst on offense.
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Old 04-16-2017, 06:21 AM   #50
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Default Re: TE, WR and RB

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Originally Posted by Gamecocks1137 View Post
I konw we werent that great but damn man, you make us sounds like the worst of the worst on offense.
Conway2 has such a negative attitude, I wonder why he even follows the Cocks. I start every season 60(+) with high expectations and hope. If not where is the joy and fun of following our Cocks?
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Old 04-16-2017, 08:29 AM   #51
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Default Re: TE, WR and RB

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Originally Posted by Gamecocks1137 View Post
I konw we werent that great but damn man, you make us sounds like the worst of the worst on offense.
The problem is the only time you were successful on offense was against bad defenses. Still shocking and dumbfounded that roper or whoever chose to have Bentley run to the sideline to get every single play against Clemson. Can't get into a rythym doing that
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Old 04-16-2017, 09:47 AM   #52
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Default Re: TE, WR and RB

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Originally Posted by cockyboy View Post
No, just not gonna argue with somebody over a message board. We have a great TE. Period.
Hurst is a good TE, particularly taking into account he didn't have the benefit of high level experience playing the position.

Can he be a great TE? Sure. Is he a "great" TE now? No....he has a lot to work on, along with blocking he's still learning route running.

The guy is a great athlete and a hard worker, which is going to help. But read the scouting reports on the guys getting ready to possibly be drafted...only a couple of guys potentially going high, then it drops off. Then read the early scouting reports for the 2018 draft...the projections for the top 14 guys at this point go from round 2-3 down to UDFA...and he isn't listed in that top 14.

There's no shame in identifying that a guy needs to work on aspects of his game, he's done very well progressing from a walkon to where he is. He has the potential to make a lot of money if he builds his game properly.
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Old 04-16-2017, 12:42 PM   #53
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Default Re: TE, WR and RB

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Hurst is a good TE, particularly taking into account he didn't have the benefit of high level experience playing the position.

Can he be a great TE? Sure. Is he a "great" TE now? No....he has a lot to work on, along with blocking he's still learning route running.

The guy is a great athlete and a hard worker, which is going to help. But read the scouting reports on the guys getting ready to possibly be drafted...only a couple of guys potentially going high, then it drops off. Then read the early scouting reports for the 2018 draft...the projections for the top 14 guys at this point go from round 2-3 down to UDFA...and he isn't listed in that top 14.

There's no shame in identifying that a guy needs to work on aspects of his game, he's done very well progressing from a walkon to where he is. He has the potential to make a lot of money if he builds his game properly.

His only problem is lack of strength. He gets dominated by DE's often. I admit tbat, but Hurst is one of the best pass catching TE's in the nation. He is a weapon. He is a big reason we will have the best offense in the SEC east. Book it.
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Old 04-16-2017, 12:51 PM   #54
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Default Re: TE, WR and RB

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Conway2 has such a negative attitude, I wonder why he even follows the Cocks. I start every season 60(+) with high expectations and hope. If not where is the joy and fun of following our Cocks?
I've probably averaged attending 11 games per year for the last 16 years. Before that I averages 8 per year for the better part of two decades. How about you? Also what part of I'm optimistic about the future has you dumbfounded? Maybe it's because I don't come here every year predicting we'll win 10 or 11 games after winning 7, 3, & 6 for the past 3 seasons or hyping up a bunch of players many of whom have yet to do anything. You do all that & more & at the end of the year it looks foolish. Yet you'll come back the next year & do it again. I prefer to take a cautiously optimistic approach because I know what this staff inherited. If we can win 7-8 games this year that would be very, very good for where we are right now. That would be reality for almost anybody outside of a pom pom carrying cheerleader. So if we can win 8 I'll be extremely pleased, since you constantly think we'll win them all I'm guessing you might be disappointed. Better yet put your money where your mouth is, there are plenty of people willing to take your money, put some coin down on USC winning 10-
11.

So, Ive got some sad reality for you. If USC can win 7-8 this year that is much closer to overly optimistic than negativity. Oh yeah, right now we're underdogs against an ACC team that finished 7-6 & 3-5 in the ACC last year so maybe, just maybe you're looking at the world thru garnet glasses. I go to every game hoping we'll win, if my lack of predicting we'll win every game or not believing we're loaded with talent (and the coaching staff agrees with that) makes me negative, then so be it. Better than being a moron.
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Old 04-16-2017, 12:59 PM   #55
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Default Re: TE, WR and RB

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His only problem is lack of strength. He gets dominated by DE's often. I admit tbat, but Hurst is one of the best pass catching TE's in the nation. He is a weapon. He is a big reason we will have the best offense in the SEC east. Book it.
He's one of the strongest guys on the team.
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Old 04-16-2017, 01:04 PM   #56
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Default Re: TE, WR and RB

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Originally Posted by ConwayGamecock View Post
I agree on many aspects of what you posted: the biggest improvement does appear to be at RB: last season pre-Bentley we averaged 212 YPG in the first 6 games, with only 2 passing TDs. We averaged scoring 14 PPG. In the final 7 gms we really didn't improve much on passing yds, averaging only 214 YPG, but we did throw 10 TDs in those 7 gms, so that was a substantial improvement.

The biggest improvement offensively was in running the ball, where we averaged 70+ YPG more in the final 7 gms than what we averaged in the first 6 gms. We also scored 13 rushing TDs in the final 7 gms as opposed to scoring 7 in the first 6 gms.

So the point production - the one thing that REALLY decides if a team wins or loses a game - really turned up a notch as the season advanced. USC averaged scoring 26.6 PPG in the final 7 gms, and 34.4 PPG in 5 of those 7. I feel the improved run game was the major factor there, but also being better able to generate touchdowns in the red zone played a role. The team learned its roles in tight situations as the season progressed.

Still, while I also agree that ultimately the WR/TE units may at best be average next season, the potential for them is much better than that. It returns its top 3 receivers, so it has the wealth of experience and leadership in terms of production on the field. But it also adds to that threesome quite a bit of depth that wasn't existent last season.

Last season Samuel, Hurst, and Edwards accounted for 61% of receptions, 72% of receiving yds, and 50% of receiving touchdowns. And if you add a 4th player in Crosby to that group, then you have 10 of the total 12 passing touchdowns accounted for by just 4 receivers.

So we had some receivers that were productive, but after them the pickings got slim. This season we return those three but add Davis, Dawkins, Banks, Washington, Googer, Pollard, and Crosby that all had at least a taste of CFB last season, and hopefully will add more to the depth. Then we add the incoming class of OrTre and Shi Smith, Terrell, and Register. OrTre was able to participate in spring camp as well as winter and summer conditioning programs, so he gets the head start.

Several of those returning receivers didn't produce much last season, for various reasons. They were red-shirted, injured, or just didn't see the field much. Perhaps they were slow to pick up the playbook. And for all we know, they may not amount to much again next season, or the incoming 4* WRs end up red-shirting. Hopefully a number of them end up being bigger factors for the offense, because we have a talented QB that can make passes, and a solid depth of RBs that can take defensive pressure off of them...
Actually we don't disagree on anything. I intentionally put "at this point" as it pertain to the WR group. There are some guys there who I believe will be very good who have yet get their feet wet & some who played last year that will only get better. So I totally agree there is the potential to be better than average.
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Old 04-16-2017, 03:22 PM   #57
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Default Re: TE, WR and RB

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I've probably averaged attending 11 games per year for the last 16 years. Before that I averages 8 per year for the better part of two decades. How about you? Also what part of I'm optimistic about the future has you dumbfounded? Maybe it's because I don't come here every year predicting we'll win 10 or 11 games after winning 7, 3, & 6 for the past 3 seasons or hyping up a bunch of players many of whom have yet to do anything. You do all that & more & at the end of the year it looks foolish. Yet you'll come back the next year & do it again. I prefer to take a cautiously optimistic approach because I know what this staff inherited. If we can win 7-8 games this year that would be very, very good for where we are right now. That would be reality for almost anybody outside of a pom pom carrying cheerleader. So if we can win 8 I'll be extremely pleased, since you constantly think we'll win them all I'm guessing you might be disappointed. Better yet put your money where your mouth is, there are plenty of people willing to take your money, put some coin down on USC winning 10-
11.

So, Ive got some sad reality for you. If USC can win 7-8 this year that is much closer to overly optimistic than negativity. Oh yeah, right now we're underdogs against an ACC team that finished 7-6 & 3-5 in the ACC last year so maybe, just maybe you're looking at the world thru garnet glasses. I go to every game hoping we'll win, if my lack of predicting we'll win every game or not believing we're loaded with talent (and the coaching staff agrees with that) makes me negative, then so be it. Better than being a moron.
If starting every season 60(+) with high expectations and hope. For the joy and fun of following our Cocks, makes me a Moron, then so be it.
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Old 04-16-2017, 06:00 PM   #58
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Default Re: TE, WR and RB

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The problem is the only time you were successful on offense was against bad defenses. Still shocking and dumbfounded that roper or whoever chose to have Bentley run to the sideline to get every single play against Clemson. Can't get into a rythym doing that
It's shocking? No, it's called a true Freshman QB playing in his 6th game. And if I was a TV announcer, I would add that he was supposed to be still playing HS ball.

And the other way to look at it was that he was successful against all defenses, with the exception of two road games against Top Ten defenses (actually 1 1/2, he did not play in the second half against you guys). I would go with the larger sample size - 5 games versus 1 1/2. You don't play road games against Power Five Top Ten defenses every day - most teams don't play one in the entire year.

There are lot of things he needs to learn to be successful against the best Defenses - and he is learning them rapidly. He sounded like a kid in the candy store during the Spring when he talked about learning to read coverages and call the blocking schemes. I think he will handle the UF and Clemson defenses much better the next time around - and the games will be at home to boot.
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Old 04-16-2017, 06:20 PM   #59
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Default Re: TE, WR and RB

I won't be surprised if we win 7-8 games - but that is not optimistic and certainly not "overly optimistic".

With Bentley, Deebo, Dowdle playing last year, we went 4-2 in the regular season and 4-3 overall, with an OT bowl loss against an 11 win team keeping us from 5-2. The other 2 losses were road games against the SEC East champ and the national champ.

So...with the same team that played the second half, we would project to go 8-4 in the regular season, and a chance to get to 9 wins with a bowl game. WITH NO IMPROVEMENT. And with the youth and additions, we will be much improved. I am not even talking hypotheticals (RS Freshmen, true Freshmen and JUCOs) - I am talking Skai Moore, Donnell Stanley, Ty'Son Williams. And the normal improvement from playing a true Freshman QB, RB, WR, with Sophomores at TE and WR.

And Hayden Hurst - he broke the South Carolina single season TE records for receptions by 10 and for yardage by 40. With true Freshmen playing QB most of the season.

Not bad for a guy that does not know how to run routes, huh?
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:29 PM   #60
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Default Re: TE, WR and RB

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And Hayden Hurst - he broke the South Carolina single season TE records for receptions by 10 and for yardage by 40. With true Freshmen playing QB most of the season.

Not bad for a guy that does not know how to run routes, huh?
You're right. Once he learns more about playing the position he'll be a better player.

He racked up some season record stats in part because 1) TE has been a horribly underused position here for a long time, and 2) a big chunk of last season he was our only offensive threat.

He has the potential to be a very good college player, and potentially a very good NFL player...if he takes the time to develop all aspects of his game.
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