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Old 07-05-2017, 09:55 PM   #41
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Default Re: SEC East Projections

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Originally Posted by Gamecocks0197 View Post
1. Winner of UGA/UF
2. Loser of UGA/UF
3. Winner of UT/SC
4. Loser of UT/SC
5. Kentucky
6. Missouri
7. Vanderbilt

The East is always a mess, and it will be again in 2017. UT still has lots of talent, but we said that last year, and they lost 4 games. I'd have them higher, but your coach is Butch Jones. As someone else put it, he is your Chad Holbrook.

UGA looks good on paper, but they have a tendency to choke under the lights, and KS is unproven. UF is a big question mark on defense, and well as their quarterback situation. Our big question is O line, and if the defense can/will continue to improve.

On the other side: UGA has a strong run game, UF always has a solid defense even when the team is bad and sneaks up on everyone, we have one of the best receiver cores in the East, and UT still has o line talent.

You can make an argument why each team won't win, and why each team can win and be the next sacrificial lamb for Nick Saban in Atlanta.
Good breakdown and that is logical.

My question though is why does everyone keep pumping up UFs D when they lost more talent then everyone and have less talent on D then UGA and TN?
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Old 07-05-2017, 09:57 PM   #42
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Default Re: SEC East Projections

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Originally Posted by evilpoptart View Post
If Tenn finishes worst than 3rd they are going to fire Butch I bet.
Agreed...3rd would be regression after finishing 2nd last two yrs so much more them that would be abad sign in yr 5.
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Old 07-05-2017, 10:34 PM   #43
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Default Re: SEC East Projections

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Originally Posted by Gamecocks0197 View Post
1. Winner of UGA/UF
2. Loser of UGA/UF
3. Winner of UT/SC
4. Loser of UT/SC
5. Kentucky
6. Missouri
7. Vanderbilt

The East is always a mess, and it will be again in 2017. UT still has lots of talent, but we said that last year, and they lost 4 games. I'd have them higher, but your coach is Butch Jones. As someone else put it, he is your Chad Holbrook.

UGA looks good on paper, but they have a tendency to choke under the lights, and KS is unproven. UF is a big question mark on defense, and well as their quarterback situation. Our big question is O line, and if the defense can/will continue to improve.

On the other side: UGA has a strong run game, UF always has a solid defense even when the team is bad and sneaks up on everyone, we have one of the best receiver cores in the East, and UT still has o line talent.

You can make an argument why each team won't win, and why each team can win and be the next sacrificial lamb for Nick Saban in Atlanta.
Pretty much end of thread right there. That's as spot on a ranking of the east as you can get.
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Old 07-06-2017, 12:29 AM   #44
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Default Re: SEC East Projections

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Originally Posted by Ace Dilcock View Post
The one thing that makes me happy is hiring Wolford and getting away from the zone blocking schemes. The "winning the battles" posts derive almost completely from the blocking techniques and schemes. Even Bailey did not knock guys back on their heels, except when he was pulling. If not for the pulling blocks, you would be classifying him as useless also.

With zone blocking, results matter more than appearances. We did more than fine with our O Line after Elliott arrived - the Offensive numbers improved dramatically across the board. That is, until the last two years, when we had zilch for talent, depth or experience at the skill positions. That started to change in the second half of last year, and will be even better this year, but we are still inexperienced and somewhat unproven. I give them a D- for the First Half, C for the Second Half. They were our weak link last year, even in the Second Half. I am hoping for a B this year, which would make our Offense very strong.

O Line was a C First Half, B- Second Half, and can get into the B+/A- range this year, barring injury. Which would make it one of our best ever.

The question mark on Offense is inexperienced and unproven players at the skill positions. I think the talent is there, but the inexperience will mean that it will take a little time for them to play up to their talent level.
The first thing I have to ask is what inexperience next year? We return everybody. The skill positions are absolutely loaded and have both talent and experience.

As for the blocking scheme I'm quite aware of what zone blocking entails, I watched plenty of 90's early 2000's Bronco football. The problem with our zone blocking is that our C and RG (Knott and Helms mostly) were pushed into the backfield pretty regularly. In zone blocking you have to hold the LOS, you're not drive blocking but you can't reset the LOS 1 to 2 yards in the backfield either. We were either 42% or 43% on 3rd and short running plays last season, that number needs to be above 60% probably flirting with 70% not below 50%. Combine our interior issues with our OTs having issues holding up against quick edge rushers and that's a bad OL. There is no question there were mitigating factors but we're talking about factors that take the performance from really really bad to just bad. Every metric shows our OL was really really bad, even you can't deny that.

As for grades. First half of the year I'd give them an F, I can't shake memories of the Miss St game where Orth (the one QB with experience) had to be pulled at half for McIlwain because our OL literally couldn't give him time to pass against a 4 man rush. Also can't shake the memory of ECU controlling the LOS and one of their DTs resetting the LOS to 1 or 2 yards in the backfield consistently. Second half I'll give it a D+ or C-, there were some slight improvements but we got owned by the only 2 quality DLs we faced, the difference was against teams we should beat handily on the LOS we actually did it. I think we could see a solid OL next year and that the potential is there but if they have last year's performance it'll be a bad season. There is definitely potential the problem is it isn't remotely proven outside of Bailey.
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Old 07-06-2017, 12:33 AM   #45
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Default Re: SEC East Projections

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamecocks0197 View Post
1. Winner of UGA/UF
2. Loser of UGA/UF
3. Winner of UT/SC
4. Loser of UT/SC
5. Kentucky
6. Missouri
7. Vanderbilt

The East is always a mess, and it will be again in 2017. UT still has lots of talent, but we said that last year, and they lost 4 games. I'd have them higher, but your coach is Butch Jones. As someone else put it, he is your Chad Holbrook.

UGA looks good on paper, but they have a tendency to choke under the lights, and KS is unproven. UF is a big question mark on defense, and well as their quarterback situation. Our big question is O line, and if the defense can/will continue to improve.

On the other side: UGA has a strong run game, UF always has a solid defense even when the team is bad and sneaks up on everyone, we have one of the best receiver cores in the East, and UT still has o line talent.

You can make an argument why each team won't win, and why each team can win and be the next sacrificial lamb for Nick Saban in Atlanta.
Only change I would make is I'd add UK into the / for the 3 and 4 spot. This will be their best team in about a decade. In terms of dollar value the two teams I'd take to win the East are us and UK, both considered big long shots but both have more coming back and going for them than most of the country realizes.
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Old 07-06-2017, 07:08 AM   #46
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Default Re: SEC East Projections

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Originally Posted by Ericvol2096 View Post
Breakdowns of the top 5 SEC teams by the HS rankings which includes SC isn't relevant to the SC FB board?


Not talking about a single post, but most of the ut crap you post


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Old 07-06-2017, 08:17 AM   #47
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Default Re: SEC East Projections

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Originally Posted by Ericvol2096 View Post
Good breakdown and that is logical.

My question though is why does everyone keep pumping up UFs D when they lost more talent then everyone and have less talent on D then UGA and TN?
I have been parroting the "UF's D will be bad after Boom's guys are gone" line, like everyone else on this board. But they have held form for two years post-Boom, and they actually had a lot of Freshmen on D last year. So the coaching and talent level have not fallen off so far, and it might not happen this year either. But I am not sold on their Offense.

I don't have a problem with you posting your star ratings, but they are not accurate reflections of talent levels. When we have possibly the best WR/RB/TE trio in the SEC and one of the best in college football, and their rankings are 3*/3*/Unranked, then we obviously are a lot more talented than the rankings. Conversely, if a lot of your highly rated guys have not proven anything on the field yet, then there is no guarantee that they will be as good as their rankings.
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Old 07-06-2017, 08:58 AM   #48
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Default Re: SEC East Projections

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Originally Posted by gotrice? View Post
The first thing I have to ask is what inexperience next year? We return everybody. The skill positions are absolutely loaded and have both talent and experience.

As for the blocking scheme I'm quite aware of what zone blocking entails, I watched plenty of 90's early 2000's Bronco football. The problem with our zone blocking is that our C and RG (Knott and Helms mostly) were pushed into the backfield pretty regularly. In zone blocking you have to hold the LOS, you're not drive blocking but you can't reset the LOS 1 to 2 yards in the backfield either. We were either 42% or 43% on 3rd and short running plays last season, that number needs to be above 60% probably flirting with 70% not below 50%. Combine our interior issues with our OTs having issues holding up against quick edge rushers and that's a bad OL. There is no question there were mitigating factors but we're talking about factors that take the performance from really really bad to just bad. Every metric shows our OL was really really bad, even you can't deny that.

As for grades. First half of the year I'd give them an F, I can't shake memories of the Miss St game where Orth (the one QB with experience) had to be pulled at half for McIlwain because our OL literally couldn't give him time to pass against a 4 man rush. Also can't shake the memory of ECU controlling the LOS and one of their DTs resetting the LOS to 1 or 2 yards in the backfield consistently. Second half I'll give it a D+ or C-, there were some slight improvements but we got owned by the only 2 quality DLs we faced, the difference was against teams we should beat handily on the LOS we actually did it. I think we could see a solid OL next year and that the potential is there but if they have last year's performance it'll be a bad season. There is definitely potential the problem is it isn't remotely proven outside of Bailey.
Experience? The QB has a half a year of PT and was a true Freshman "who should have been a Senior in HS". QB and O Line take longer to develop than any other positions, and he noted how he was just learning to do things like read defenses and change plays - in the Spring.

The RB had a little over half a year of experience - at the end of the year, after missing Fall practice and the First Half of the season. He knew enough to run well, but not to learn nuances like who and how to block (which contributed to the sacks and TFLs). Same with the TE, who was playing his first year at the position, and struggled with his blocking.

The three WRs were two true Freshmen and a RS Sophomore who had barely played prior to the second half of last year due to hamstring problems. It was probably the most inexperienced group of skill guys in the country - so, yeah, "inexperience" is the right word.

I will concede that the offensive numbers were not good, but you are also ignoring the positives - the success that we had running and passing the ball in the Second Half, when we got the right skill position guys out there. And if the O Line had the blocking ability for that to happen - which they obviously did - then there could be (and were) extenuating circumstances for giving up the sacks and TFLs.

One thing that I have conceded is that injuries held us back and kept the O Line from being better, resulting in the lower grade for the First Half of the season. You point out the Miss. State game - we lost a starter in the first game (Stanley), then shuffled the line-up to get Camper in the line-up, and he promptly got hurt in the MSU game. No chemistry or continuity at that point.

Then you specifically cite two injured guys - Knott and Helms - as being pushed around. Knott hurt his hand in the offseason and could not lift, was undersized and weak, especially at the start of the season, and then hurt his ankle. Helms played all year with a bum knee. The original plan was to use Helms at Center until Knott was ready, but the injuries changed that plan.

But the O Line was much better in the Second Half, when Knott got stronger, Young was moved into the starting line-up, and Camper was back from injury.

Which is why - barring a recurrence of the injuries, and even then we have more depth now - the O Line is not the question mark that people are saying.
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Old 07-06-2017, 09:08 AM   #49
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Default Re: SEC East Projections

Bottom line, we're going to Atlanta
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Old 07-07-2017, 11:10 AM   #50
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Default Re: SEC East Projections

Athlon Sports says 6-6 (4-4 SEC) and a trip to the Liberty Bowl vs West Virginia. Alabama over Georgia for the SEC Championship.

https://athlonsports.com/college-foo...ojections-2017

https://athlonsports.com/college-foo...17-predictions
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