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Old 06-29-2017, 12:05 PM   #1
PalmettoCockZ71
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Default Elite 11 doesn't matter

http://southcarolina.247sports.com/A...n-col-53362797

Interesting article. I think the real problem is QB is the hardest position to evaluate because so much of it is mental
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Old 06-29-2017, 12:35 PM   #2
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Default Re: Elite 11 doesn't matter

Well it's a showcase of talent. Sure, it's not a tell tale sign of how good they will be once they put the pads on in college, but it matters to recruiters, coaches, and the athletes themselves.
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Old 06-29-2017, 12:41 PM   #3
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Default Re: Elite 11 doesn't matter

Quote:
Originally Posted by PalmettoCockZ71 View Post
I think the real problem is QB is the hardest position to evaluate because so much of it is mental
Agree, and the evaluations get noticeably harder for the NFL draft.

There are plenty of QBs who are physically gifted that never make great QBs regardless of how hard they work or try....mainly because they aren't gifted mentally like others.
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Old 06-29-2017, 01:02 PM   #4
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Default Re: Elite 11 doesn't matter

As with most things, the Elite 11 is a money grab.

And nothing against the kid, but McIlwain has completely cured me of caring about the Elite 11.

The point for how hard it is to project at QB can be made with the Mannings. Those boys are some of the most un-athletic looking creatures I've ever seen. Even when they move they look awkward. Both have Superbowl rings.
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Old 06-29-2017, 01:21 PM   #5
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Default Re: Elite 11 doesn't matter

I agree. there is no way the elite 11 are actually the elite 11. No way. The Bmac example is on point. Sad, but on point.
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Old 06-29-2017, 01:34 PM   #6
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Default Re: Elite 11 doesn't matter

Wasn't Connor Mitch an elite 11 QB too?
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Old 06-29-2017, 02:54 PM   #7
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Default Re: Elite 11 doesn't matter

How do these percentages compare to non-elite 11 QBS?

I mean if an Elite 11 QB has a 30% chance to go to the NFL and everyone else is a 5% shot, I'd say I'd pick an Elite 11 guy if you held a gun to my head.
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Old 06-29-2017, 04:02 PM   #8
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Default Re: Elite 11 doesn't matter

Quote:
Originally Posted by PalmettoCockZ71 View Post
http://southcarolina.247sports.com/A...n-col-53362797

Interesting article. I think the real problem is QB is the hardest position to evaluate because so much of it is mental
So, the USC track record has been pretty average thus far. We've had 2 Elite 11 QB's who were Starters (Blake Mitchell and Steve Garcia), with no Pro's or Busts based on the article's criteria. Many of us would agree that at least one, and maybe both, of those guys had the physical tools to go pro but not the right mental frame of mind.

It's too early to judge McIwain's career (they used 2014 and before as their cutoff), but he does fall into the increasing % of QB's who transfer. Best of luck to him, but I'll keep Jake, thank you.
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Old 06-30-2017, 08:38 AM   #9
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Default Re: Elite 11 doesn't matter

McIlwain is proof of that.
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Old 06-30-2017, 09:55 AM   #10
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Default Re: Elite 11 doesn't matter

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandstorm2001 View Post
How do these percentages compare to non-elite 11 QBS?

... I'd say I'd pick an Elite 11 guy if you held a gun to my head.
A couple of thoughts on the Elite 11. I would not agree that it "doesn't matter", but it in no form is close to a guarantee that the player will comfortably transfer his skills and success to the college level. These are arbitrary numbers, but for giggles letís assume the following:

- 75% of the Elite QBs have the physical talent to truly succeed at the next level
- 75% of those have the mental toughness to study and work extra hard
- 75% of those go to a team with a top notch OL (Which is probably a high estimate)
- 75% of those go to a team with a game changing WR (Which also is probably high)
- 75% donít have any or much competition for the starting position by at least year not (See Iím being nice Ö the competition is much higher than that)

With that being said, approximately 2.5 out of the 11 will become a premier QB. Which makes most of the other assumptions in this thread true.

It is too hard to evaluate how a QB will do at the next level.
That a lot of what the QB has to deal with is mental focus.
Some are just not smart enough to grasp the system.
Some end up on teams that just donít have a deep enough supporting staff.

Sandstorm hit the nail on the head. I would rather bet on an Elite 11 QB than one that isnít.

If this was an exact science then we would have numerous MNCs every year Ö just like in the 20ís when Alabama earned about 30% of theirs Ö (Sorry, could not resist.)
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Old 06-30-2017, 10:01 AM   #11
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Default Re: Elite 11 doesn't matter

All the Elite 11 is good for is keeping recruiting junkies tuned in to highly coveted recruits.
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Old 06-30-2017, 10:07 AM   #12
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Default Re: Elite 11 doesn't matter

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Chick Sid View Post
These are arbitrary numbers, but for giggles letís assume the following:

- 75% of the Elite QBs have the physical talent to truly succeed at the next level
- 75% of those have the mental toughness to study and work extra hard
- 75% of those go to a team with a top notch OL (Which is probably a high estimate)
- 75% of those go to a team with a game changing WR (Which also is probably high)
- 75% donít have any or much competition for the starting position by at least year not (See Iím being nice Ö the competition is much higher than that)
You can add 75% of those that have the mental acumen to see the field, read defenses, make instant smart decisions, mental toughness in in clutch situations, etc.
This may be the biggest factor as QBs move up the food chain.
And also is one of they keys that separated our best QB ever from some others that were former Elite 11 invitees.
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Old 06-30-2017, 11:10 AM   #13
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Default Re: Elite 11 doesn't matter

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Originally Posted by GamecockSuperFan View Post
Wasn't Connor Mitch an elite 11 QB too?
Almost.

He came in second at an E11 showcase to Kevin Olson, who signed with (and later was kicked out of) Miami.

Trent Dilfer was convinced Mitch had what it took to be an E11, asked him to come to another qualifying event, told him another good showing could get him in. Mitch turned him down. (Which maybe gave some insight into his competitiveness).

Kind of interesting parallel, after getting kicked out of Miami Olson wound up at Charlotte. Lost his starting job there, in reading articles about him the same things keep popping up...lack of pocket presence, lack of awareness, can't read defenses, tentative, can't make quick decisions, looks great in practice/bad in games....

Basically the same exact deal we had with Mitch and BMac. Now Mitch is transferring to his third program after being beat out by a JUCO, and BMac is headed off to California or someplace else, to play baseball, football, or whatever else he's been overhyped about.

That's a problem with showcases/passing camps...it's a different story throwing unpressured passes in a showcase compared to game action when 300lb guys are trying to hit you. E11 is about arm strength, release times, and mechanics. It's "wow factor" stuff. Those things help if you have the mental tools to play QB, but they don't tell the whole story.

Dilfer is a QB huckster. He worked with Tim Tebow after his final release, then announced to the NFL that he'd helped improve Tebows mechanics, and he was ready for a comeback.

No one in the NFL listened.
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Old 06-30-2017, 01:25 PM   #14
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Default Re: Elite 11 doesn't matter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flameout12 View Post
Agree, and the evaluations get noticeably harder for the NFL draft.

There are plenty of QBs who are physically gifted that never make great QBs regardless of how hard they work or try....mainly because they aren't gifted mentally like others.
I think this is very true. I'm not an athlete, but I play golf every week. When I go to the driving range I can hit an entire bucket of balls and mishit just a couple. Put me in a match on Sunday and I sometimes look like I've never played the game before. It is all between the ears.

Conquering anxiety
Keeping your focus on you and your ball - not everyone else
Not allowing competitive jabbering bother you

I love to watch, "The Legend of Bagger Vance." It perfectly describes what has to happen in your mind to be a winner.

Connor Mitch had the physical tools to be a good QB, but could never overcome his demons.
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Old 06-30-2017, 03:41 PM   #15
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Default Re: Elite 11 doesn't matter

Not for nothing........but had he been in school still Bentley would've been an elite11 qb. He was the number 2 PP of 17 class, some services had him as 5* his sophomore (DJ was I think the number 50 player and borderline 5* is sophomore year too). So as much as I'd love to say camps and rankings don't mean sh$t, they do measure certain attributes. Our only division championship we had an elite 11 qb under center, just a little food for thought.
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Old 06-30-2017, 04:51 PM   #16
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Default Re: Elite 11 doesn't matter

Dilfer set up the Elite Eleven as an event for Pro-Style QBs. It is about technique, arm strength, going through progressions, pocket presence, and is judged based on mechanics and performance in 7 on 7 drills. Dual Threat QBs are at a disadvantage because scrambling and not using classic passing mechanics are a negative - whereas, in an actual game, those can be positives that help the Offense move the ball.

Conversely, a lot of big, slow pro-style QBs get eaten up in games if they do not have a great O Line because they can't avoid the pressure. Then they get happy feet and fall apart. Which is why a lot of guys that do well in the Elite 11 do not do well in college, and vice versa.
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Old 06-30-2017, 06:51 PM   #17
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Default Re: Elite 11 doesn't matter

They are being kind with the bust percentage. Given the fact that less than a third of the Elite 11 guys ever became college starters...i'd call a full two-thirds of them busts. If you're supposed to be one of the top 11 players in the entire country at your position and you can never earn a starting job (regardless of the reason), you may be a fine young man and congratulations on your high school hype and all, but that's a clear bust.
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Old 06-30-2017, 07:23 PM   #18
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Default Re: Elite 11 doesn't matter

Most likely they do not matter only if you do not land one. Fans go crazy for stuff that is elite.
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Old 06-30-2017, 09:06 PM   #19
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Default Re: Elite 11 doesn't matter

I know a local elite 11 QB coach and many of the other QB coaches mock the fact that he has the worst judge of talent at the QB position. Basically these guys have jumped through some hoops to get a title and use it to make money off people willing to pay $100 an hour for QB training. Lastly, too much of the evaluation is off of raw physical tools and not actual football game skills vs legit competition.
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Old 07-02-2017, 09:29 AM   #20
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Default Re: Elite 11 doesn't matter

It matters to the sponsors.
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