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Old 08-05-2013, 11:15 PM   #1
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Default Another snake story with a sad ending

Nightmare: Python Seemingly Strangles Two Children After Escaping Nearby Pet Store, Slithering Into Bedroom


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Old 08-06-2013, 12:16 PM   #2
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Default Re: Another snake story with a sad ending

This is a sad story, but it isn't because a snake was kept, it is because a snake was kept by somebody that didn't secure it properly.

And this is already being used to add to the pressure to ban snakes as pets. Doesn't matter than dogs kill an average of 53 people in the US each year and snakes only kill an average of 20 or less in the world (both wild snakes and pets) (These numbers are for large constricting snakes, not venomous snakes which kill many people (mostly in 3rd world countries and remote locations where medical help cannot be reached). Snakes are seen as evil creatures for some reason, I have my ideas on where it comes from, when in reality they are not.
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Old 08-06-2013, 01:42 PM   #3
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Default Re: Another snake story with a sad ending

I'm really curious about this one, as it seems really fishy.

A snake gets out of it's enclosure, shimmy's up the ventilation system, kills two kids and then just sits around? Something doesn't add up. I'm really interested too see if the autopsy turns up crushed bones and bite marks that are consistent with boa attacks.

Methinks the snake here might be blamed for something more sinister.
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Old 08-06-2013, 02:31 PM   #4
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Default Re: Another snake story with a sad ending

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Originally Posted by Acockolypse Now View Post
I'm really curious about this one, as it seems really fishy.

A snake gets out of it's enclosure, shimmy's up the ventilation system, kills two kids and then just sits around? Something doesn't add up. I'm really interested too see if the autopsy turns up crushed bones and bite marks that are consistent with boa attacks.

Methinks the snake here might be blamed for something more sinister.
This was posted on a reptile keeping message board by one of the leading breeders of giant (burm, retic, african rock, anaconda) snakes in the world. He seems to agree with you somewhat.

"Ok, we need to be thoughtful and LOGICAL about the Python in the news that "possibly" was involved in the death of two children. I am now talking to people on the inside and learning some facts here. We MUST do damage control here and learn what happened before we sign on to any of this. Two children did in fact die and a snake was found in the room. Autopsies are occurring on Tuesday by coroner to see the EXACT cause of death. It was an African Rock Python.... 14' (let's guess that weighs 50 - 60 lbs). There were 3 children sleeping there when this happened. The two brothers died and the third child woke in the morning with no idea of what had happened. It appears possibly the ceiling caved in? Possibly the ceiling collapsed and was the cause of death. The African Rock was found in the room. When approached it was sluggish and NOT with the children. It was NOT attacking anyone. Well, I know pythons and this entire tale sounds WRONG. Pythons do not attack like this, they don't kill one yet along two people without resistance or alarm. They don't abandon their prey easily and will continue to struggle as they attempt to eat a meal that is too large. non of this makes sense to me. We need actual information that has not been turned out by the media. We need to use our EXPERTS and LOGIC to fight this situation and lend a voice of reason. EVERYONE, do not think for a minute a snake actually attacked and killed these two children without knowing way more. From what I am hearing on the inside it does not sound this way one bit!. We all need to assume INNOCENCE on the snake's behalf before any of us say people should not be keeping Pythons and such. They can say that WAY more about keeping dogs, more importantly LARGE BREEDS. We are working on this, we all need to do damage control and EDUCATE anyone that runs with these BOGUS FACTS. More to come...."
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Old 08-06-2013, 02:59 PM   #5
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Default Re: Another snake story with a sad ending

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Originally Posted by bigdog2003 View Post
This is a sad story, but it isn't because a snake was kept, it is because a snake was kept by somebody that didn't secure it properly.

And this is already being used to add to the pressure to ban snakes as pets. Doesn't matter than dogs kill an average of 53 people in the US each year and snakes only kill an average of 20 or less in the world (both wild snakes and pets). Snakes are seen as evil creatures for some reason, I have my ideas on where it comes from, when in reality they are not.
Well, if you're going to compare the # of deaths by dogs as pets to the # of deaths by snakes as pets, you should prorate it somehow ti be reflective to the overall greater number of dogs kept as pets.

Example...if there's 1 million dogs kept as pets, and 53 people killed by those pets per year, well...thats pretty damn low when compared to 5,000 snakes as pets that kill 20 per year

My numbers are in no way reflective of the real numbers in the country, just giving an example
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Old 08-06-2013, 03:01 PM   #6
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Default Re: Another snake story with a sad ending

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Well, if you're going to compare the # of deaths by dogs as pets to the # of deaths by snakes as pets, you should prorate it somehow ti be reflective to the overall greater number of dogs kept as pets.

Example...if there's 1 million dogs kept as pets, and 53 people killed by those pets per year, well...thats pretty damn low when compared to 5,000 snakes as pets that kill 20 per year

My numbers are in no way reflective of the real numbers in the country, just giving an example
My number was worldwide wild and captive kept snakes, not just pet snakes. Just shows that snakes are less dangerous. 99% of snake deaths are from wild snakes and most are in 3rd world countries.
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Old 08-06-2013, 03:04 PM   #7
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Default Re: Another snake story with a sad ending

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My number was worldwide wild and captive kept snakes, not just pet snakes. Just shows that snakes are less dangerous. 99% of snake deaths are from wild snakes and most are in 3rd world countries.
My point still stands.

Even given your approach, its not a direct comparison you can make- you would need to prorate it in some way to be a better comparison.
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Old 08-06-2013, 03:16 PM   #8
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Default Re: Another snake story with a sad ending

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My point still stands.

Even given your approach, its not a direct comparison you can make- you would need to prorate it in some way to be a better comparison.
But the media wants us to think these are vicious killing machines, when only 15 people have been killed by a giant constricting snake in the US since 1978. With the number of them being kept by hobbyist, shouldn't the number be much higher if they are indeed dangerous?

A lot of the legislation surrounding snakes doesn't come from their danger, but from the fact that people don't like them. If we are going to start using that as the basis for banning stuff, we are getting into a dangerous area.
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Old 08-06-2013, 03:29 PM   #9
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Default Re: Another snake story with a sad ending

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My number was worldwide wild and captive kept snakes, not just pet snakes. Just shows that snakes are less dangerous. 99% of snake deaths are from wild snakes and most are in 3rd world countries.
Your number is way off if you are trying to encompass worldwide deaths. 1000's are killed in Asia every year by snakes.
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Old 08-06-2013, 03:36 PM   #10
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Default Re: Another snake story with a sad ending

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Your number is way off if you are trying to encompass worldwide deaths. 1000's are killed in Asia every year by snakes.
Not reported. They may be killed, but I got the numbers from a scientific study. If you can provide actual proof I will go with it. 1000's might get bitten, but not die.
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Old 08-06-2013, 03:37 PM   #11
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Default Re: Another snake story with a sad ending

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But the media wants us to think these are vicious killing machines, when only 15 people have been killed by a giant constricting snake in the US since 1978. With the number of them being kept by hobbyist, shouldn't the number be much higher if they are indeed dangerous?

A lot of the legislation surrounding snakes doesn't come from their danger, but from the fact that people don't like them. If we are going to start using that as the basis for banning stuff, we are getting into a dangerous area.
No, I dont think the media wants us to think they're 'vicious killing machines'

But lets get one thing straight. A big reason why people are fearful of snakes is because they dont often advertise their presence in the most visible way. Sure, a rattlesnake will make a noise, but overall- you can be walking along and not notice one till it bites you. That sucks donkey balls.

Compare that to a dog...can you realistically see a scenario where you're just walking along, minding your own business, and not notice a dog until it bites you?

If a random dog bites you (doesnt have rabies, for example)...unless it gets an artery or something, you should be able to get to medical attention just fine. But a snake? Depending on where you're at, there's a good chance its poisonous. If that happens...you better hurry your ass up and get to a doctor ASAP. Better hope you make it in time.

So, yeah...its not really intellectually honest to compare dogs and snakes. Its completely logical as to why people would be more fearful of snakes than dogs.

It's similar (but not exactly like) people's fear of flying. Sure, a greater number of people (as well as a larger percentage) die while driving or riding in cars...but flying just scares many more people, and its completely logical- because if you're in a car, you feel like you have a little more control. But in a plane, you're helpless.
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Old 08-06-2013, 03:44 PM   #12
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Default Re: Another snake story with a sad ending

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Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday View Post
No, I dont think the media wants us to think they're 'vicious killing machines'

But lets get one thing straight. A big reason why people are fearful of snakes is because they dont often advertise their presence in the most visible way. Sure, a rattlesnake will make a noise, but overall- you can be walking along and not notice one till it bites you. That sucks donkey balls.

Compare that to a dog...can you realistically see a scenario where you're just walking along, minding your own business, and not notice a dog until it bites you?

If a random dog bites you (doesnt have rabies, for example)...unless it gets an artery or something, you should be able to get to medical attention just fine. But a snake? Depending on where you're at, there's a good chance its poisonous. If that happens...you better hurry your ass up and get to a doctor ASAP. Better hope you make it in time.

So, yeah...its not really intellectually honest to compare dogs and snakes. Its completely logical as to why people would be more fearful of snakes than dogs.

It's similar (but not exactly like) people's fear of flying. Sure, a greater number of people (as well as a larger percentage) die while driving or riding in cars...but flying just scares many more people, and its completely logical- because if you're in a car, you feel like you have a little more control. But in a plane, you're helpless.
First, there are no poisonous snakes. Second, the chances of getting bitten by a venomous snake that can kill a healthy adult is slim. Copperheads will not do it, Cottonmouths will not do it, Eastern Diamondbacks could do it.

So basically people fear snakes for no real reason, got you. And that should be reason to ban people from owning them? Sounds like a valid reason.
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Old 08-06-2013, 03:49 PM   #13
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Default Re: Another snake story with a sad ending

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Originally Posted by bigdog2003 View Post
First, there are no poisonous snakes. Second, the chances of getting bitten by a venomous snake that can kill a healthy adult is slim. Copperheads will not do it, Cottonmouths will not do it, Eastern Diamondbacks could do it.

So basically people fear snakes for no real reason, got you. And that should be reason to ban people from owning them? Sounds like a valid reason.
Poisonous, venomous...dont get hung up on semantics- you knew what I meant.

OK, so if you get bitten by a copperhead...you'll just rub some dirt on it and walk it off?

Give me a break.

Dogs have been domesticated- snakes have not.

Next thing you'll be telling me that its perfectly ok to have chimpanzees, tigers, and other wild animals as pets.
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Old 08-06-2013, 03:50 PM   #14
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Default Re: Another snake story with a sad ending

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdog2003 View Post
This is a sad story, but it isn't because a snake was kept, it is because a snake was kept by somebody that didn't secure it properly.

And this is already being used to add to the pressure to ban snakes as pets. Doesn't matter than dogs kill an average of 53 people in the US each year and snakes only kill an average of 20 or less in the world (both wild snakes and pets). Snakes are seen as evil creatures for some reason, I have my ideas on where it comes from, when in reality they are not.
^
THIS .... Unfortunately, exotics shows and pet stores open a market for
"impulse" buyers who think it's BADASS to own something Venomous, or
HUGE in the line of Exotics. Without doing any research or very little,
they purchase Cobras, Gaboons, Burmese Phytons, Reticulated Phythons,
Copperheads etc..... and keep them just long enough to realize they
have to be fed regularly, cage changed regularly, or watch quickly get
bigger than themselves in a short amount of time and begin to get
Expensive to feed an raise, so they either kill it, or relase it in the woods
somewhere to fend for itself...... or, they develop a very lax and stupid
approach to securing it, and making sure it has no way to escape.

That's why I grew up studying snakes / reptiles, and concentrated on
those close to where I lived. I knew the difference between a venomous
snake and non venomous snake early in life, and when I decided to get
into raising them, I only chose corn snakes. Local, non venomous, very
non aggressive domestic animals that if for some reason they did escape,
they are not going to endanger the enviornment or people in the area.
The only people who should buy anything common outside the U.S. or
domestic venomous snakes / reptiles should be those who have been
doing it for a long time, Have no children in their house, and have their
life insurance paid up to date, and have their Wills updated. Venomous
animals and foreign exotics are BEAUTIFUL CREATURES but they are
not "PETS".
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Old 08-06-2013, 03:51 PM   #15
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Default Re: Another snake story with a sad ending

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Poisonous, venomous...dont get hung up on semantics- you knew what I meant.

OK, so if you get bitten by a copperhead...you'll just rub some dirt on it and walk it off?

Give me a break.

Dogs have been domesticated- snakes have not.

Next thing you'll be telling me that its perfectly ok to have chimpanzees, tigers, and other wild animals as pets.
What reason is there to ban snakes? If its because people have died from them, then all pets that have killed people should be banned.

People that get bitten by copperheads often don't need medical treatment.

If somebody has the training to handle chimps, tigers, and other animals, they should be allowed to have them.
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Old 08-06-2013, 03:55 PM   #16
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Default Re: Another snake story with a sad ending

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Not reported. They may be killed, but I got the numbers from a scientific study. If you can provide actual proof I will go with it. 1000's might get bitten, but not die.
I would like to see the study that says 20 people a year die worldwide from snakebites.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1103203029.htm

http://www.medindia.net/news/More-Th...dy-43709-1.htm

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs337/en/
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Old 08-06-2013, 03:56 PM   #17
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Default Re: Another snake story with a sad ending

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurticus View Post
^
THIS .... Unfortunately, exotics shows and pet stores open a market for
"impulse" buyers who think it's BADASS to own something Venomous, or
HUGE in the line of Exotics. Without doing any research or very little,
they purchase Cobras, Gaboons, Burmese Phytons, Reticulated Phythons,
Copperheads etc..... and keep them just long enough to realize they
have to be fed regularly, cage changed regularly, or watch quickly get
bigger than themselves in a short amount of time and begin to get
Expensive to feed an raise, so they either kill it, or relase it in the woods
somewhere to fend for itself...... or, they develop a very lax and stupid
approach to securing it, and making sure it has no way to escape.

That's why I grew up studying snakes / reptiles, and concentrated on
those close to where I lived. I knew the difference between a venomous
snake and non venomous snake early in life, and when I decided to get
into raising them, I only chose corn snakes. Local, non venomous, very
non aggressive domestic animals that if for some reason they did escape,
they are not going to endanger the enviornment or people in the area.
The only people who should buy anything common outside the U.S. or
domestic venomous snakes / reptiles should be those who have been
doing it for a long time, Have no children in their house, and have their
life insurance paid up to date, and have their Wills updated. Venomous
animals and foreign exotics are BEAUTIFUL CREATURES but they are
not "PETS".
That is why bans won't work, there will still be ways to get the snakes for the people that show they don't care about the laws.

I wish they would require training with a long time keeper in order to buy/keep venomous and giant snakes. Require a certain amount of time training with a certified trainer, then pay fees, and show you can properly house the snake.

I could easily buy a King Cobra, and have it shipped to pretty much any address I wanted to with no questions asked even with bans in place. Bans don't work, limitations would. If you have to provide a training number and put tracking devices in your large snake, it would keep the impulse buyers out. To bad we won't see that because the law makers find it easier to punish everybody.
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Old 08-06-2013, 04:00 PM   #18
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Default Re: Another snake story with a sad ending

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You show venomous snake bites in 3rd world countries, mine is of constricting snakes world wide, which is what is the snake in question in the death of these young boys. Sorry for the confusion, I'm not stupid, venomous snakes kill way more than 20 people a year world wide, but they aren't the snakes in question here. I will edit my above post to show that.
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Old 08-06-2013, 04:07 PM   #19
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Default Re: Another snake story with a sad ending

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What reason is there to ban snakes?
Because they cannot be domesticated.

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If somebody has the training to handle chimps, tigers, and other animals, they should be allowed to have them.
If you want to require specialized training in order to own a wild, non-domesticated animal as a pet, such as snakes, chimps, tigers, etc...then I'm cool with that. But without that training, the person should not be allowed to own them.
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Old 08-06-2013, 04:09 PM   #20
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Default Re: Another snake story with a sad ending

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Originally Posted by bigdog2003 View Post
You show venomous snake bites in 3rd world countries, mine is of constricting snakes world wide, which is what is the snake in question in the death of these young boys. Sorry for the confusion, I'm not stupid, venomous snakes kill way more than 20 people a year world wide, but they aren't the snakes in question here. I will edit my above post to show that.
You never specifically said constricting snakes.

You also said, "1000's might get bitten, but not die" and "Second, the chances of getting bitten by a venomous snake that can kill a healthy adult is slim." Sounded like you were discussing venomous snakes to me?
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