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Old 09-15-2013, 11:49 AM   #1
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Default Nothing Special about our Special Teams

First of all I'm very happy about the win last night and how our offense is beginning to look better than it ever has. This is a great sign moving forward. Defense is still shaky, but showed improvement.

However, defense aside, our special teams are down significantly from last year. Not only that, but they are becoming a liability to the success of the team.

I know we lost Ace last year, but he wasn't a one man show. Ace had a lot of help in blocking last year that seems to be lacking this year.

I don't know exactly what the problem is, but it needs to be brought up to scratch by the time we play in Orlando. Spurrier mentioned in his presser that we need to get Robinson some better players out there for special teams, but I thought we had started doing that last year, or the year before?

Joe Robinson is in his second year, and did a great job last year. He has a fantastic resume as Special Teams coach and a DL coach.

So, I don't understand what's going on with our special teams. Three games into our schedule and there's nothing at all special about our Special Teams.
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Old 09-15-2013, 11:55 AM   #2
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Default Re: Nothing Special about our Special Teams

Wait, Joe Robinson is a former D-Line coach? Damn, anyone else thinking what I am thinking?
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Old 09-15-2013, 11:58 AM   #3
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Default Re: Nothing Special about our Special Teams

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Originally Posted by U-Dub Gamecock View Post
Wait, Joe Robinson is a former D-Line coach? Damn, anyone else thinking what I am thinking?
No. His ST work does not recommend him for anything else here.

I have never seen special teams play as bad as it was against Vandy. We were lost, ineffective, and totally unfocused. Can't think of anything we did well except extra pts.
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Old 09-15-2013, 12:01 PM   #4
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Default Re: Nothing Special about our Special Teams

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Originally Posted by U-Dub Gamecock View Post
Wait, Joe Robinson is a former D-Line coach? Damn, anyone else thinking what I am thinking?
You betcha, but look at his success as ST coordinator.

Prior to his arrival in Chapel Hill, Robinson spent three seasons as the defensive line coach and special teams coordinator at LSU. In his award-winning 2010 season, the Tigers' special teams finished in the top 13 nationally in net punting, kickoff return average and punt return average while earning a trip to the Cotton Bowl. In 2009, LSU's special teams combined to rank No. 1 overall in the SEC as the Tigers led the league in both kickoff coverage (44.5 net average) and punt returns (18.9). LSU was the only team in the league to rank among the top three in the conference in four special teams categories. Kick returner Trinton Holliday led the SEC and ranked No. 2 in the nation in punt returns and was selected in the 2010 NFL Draft by the Houston Texans.

He coached the uncar DL the year before Deke did.

edit: Just realized he coached the DL and the ST's at LSU. Hmmmmm.

Last edited by Travelin; 09-15-2013 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 09-15-2013, 12:48 PM   #5
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Default Re: Nothing Special about our Special Teams

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Originally Posted by SC Sandlapper View Post
No. His ST work does not recommend him for anything else here.

I have never seen special teams play as bad as it was against Vandy. We were lost, ineffective, and totally unfocused. Can't think of anything we did well except extra pts.
That about sums it up. It's dreadful right now. Hope we can turn it around in the next few weeks.
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Old 09-15-2013, 01:47 PM   #6
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Default Re: Nothing Special about our Special Teams

We were spoiled by Ace, but Carson really is god awful on returns...i just close my eyes every time i see him take it from 5 yards deep out to the 15. He just guns it, theres no change of pace just a straight line as fast as he can go.
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Old 09-15-2013, 01:50 PM   #7
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Default Re: Nothing Special about our Special Teams

spurrier blamed the players last night.
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Old 09-15-2013, 01:51 PM   #8
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Default Re: Nothing Special about our Special Teams

Bama used to use Ingram and Richardson on kick returns. Put the ball in the best players hands
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Old 09-15-2013, 08:38 PM   #9
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Default Re: Nothing Special about our Special Teams

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Originally Posted by Travelin View Post
First of all I'm very happy about the win last night and how our offense is beginning to look better than it ever has. This is a great sign moving forward. Defense is still shaky, but showed improvement.

However, defense aside, our special teams are down significantly from last year. Not only that, but they are becoming a liability to the success of the team.

I know we lost Ace last year, but he wasn't a one man show. Ace had a lot of help in blocking last year that seems to be lacking this year.

I don't know exactly what the problem is, but it needs to be brought up to scratch by the time we play in Orlando. Spurrier mentioned in his presser that we need to get Robinson some better players out there for special teams, but I thought we had started doing that last year, or the year before?

Joe Robinson is in his second year, and did a great job last year. He has a fantastic resume as Special Teams coach and a DL coach.

So, I don't understand what's going on with our special teams. Three games into our schedule and there's nothing at all special about our Special Teams.
A great returner can make a couple of people miss in open space.

This doesn't just take speed but jitterbug agility.

We have plenty of guys that are fast as bullets but I have not seen anyone this year really "juke" the first couple of guys coming at them.

There were plenty of times when Ace had three defenders within ten yards of him when he picked up the kick (with no blockers around) and he used his agility to get past those guys untouched.

After that, you can actually get to where your lanes should be forming.

The guys we have returning kicks and punts this year have not been able to make plays on their own to get past that first two or three defenders.


Ace was also exceptional at being patient and watching where the defenders speed and momentum was taking them and then just exploded away from that rush-he'd go from 0-100 in the blink of an eye and cut without losing speed.

I simply do not know if we have anyone on the team that can do that.

You put Ace in a phone booth with two other people and it would be hours before they could put a finger on him.




People sometimes diss Chris Culliver as our former Return man but even he had liquid hips and that made him a great return man (the record holder here). He could cut like the devil and elude some defenders in space.




This is not a diss to our current players - I think they are great. But straight line speed and great hands are not the greatest assets to being the guy back there on special teams.

We will likely not see to many returns that make it past our 30 yard line this year unless there is someone we have not seen try it back there and can actually cut, keep their speed and make people miss in tight spaces.
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Old 09-15-2013, 09:29 PM   #10
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Default Re: Nothing Special about our Special Teams

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Originally Posted by Next Year View Post
A great returner can make a couple of people miss in open space.

This doesn't just take speed but jitterbug agility.

We have plenty of guys that are fast as bullets but I have not seen anyone this year really "juke" the first couple of guys coming at them.

There were plenty of times when Ace had three defenders within ten yards of him when he picked up the kick (with no blockers around) and he used his agility to get past those guys untouched.

After that, you can actually get to where your lanes should be forming.

The guys we have returning kicks and punts this year have not been able to make plays on their own to get past that first two or three defenders.


Ace was also exceptional at being patient and watching where the defenders speed and momentum was taking them and then just exploded away from that rush-he'd go from 0-100 in the blink of an eye and cut without losing speed.

I simply do not know if we have anyone on the team that can do that.

You put Ace in a phone booth with two other people and it would be hours before they could put a finger on him.




People sometimes diss Chris Culliver as our former Return man but even he had liquid hips and that made him a great return man (the record holder here). He could cut like the devil and elude some defenders in space.




This is not a diss to our current players - I think they are great. But straight line speed and great hands are not the greatest assets to being the guy back there on special teams.

We will likely not see to many returns that make it past our 30 yard line this year unless there is someone we have not seen try it back there and can actually cut, keep their speed and make people miss in tight spaces.
I agree with all of this, but at the moment, I think many Carolina fans would settle for great hands alone on kick returns.

I will say it here as well: are we really putting our best punter on the field every week? If so, should this not be a position of need in terms of recruiting?
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Old 09-15-2013, 09:33 PM   #11
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Default Re: Nothing Special about our Special Teams

I HATE when people talk straight 40 times.

The only time a 40 yard dash time is relevant is when you have such great blocking, that the returner doesn't even have to cut....ever...just run a straight line or with very minimal lateral movement...which happens at some schools, but not here.
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Old 09-15-2013, 09:50 PM   #12
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Default Re: Nothing Special about our Special Teams

Special teams have now made critical mistakes in the last two games. That is a unit that can least afford to do so.
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Old 09-15-2013, 10:11 PM   #13
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Default Re: Nothing Special about our Special Teams

When you're special teams is sloppy, and your defense is inexperience you can get very sloppy games.
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Old 09-15-2013, 10:32 PM   #14
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Default Re: Nothing Special about our Special Teams

people...

Spurrier does this all the time. even going back to the early 90's at Florida. He'll say "oh yeah. we need to get some starters in there on ST"

he's done it several times here too. google it. you'll find articles dating way back.. with him saying the same thing almost every single season.

he'll do the same thing this season. ST has never been our thing, Ace Sanders was the exception to the rule. period.

that being said, I do think Shon Carson is a mistake at returning. his heart is not in football. any interview I've ever seen with him Post-practice or whatever, he just seems so disinterested.

that being said, Joe Robinson needs to get these guys going.

our D has done alright, but everyone thinks they're bad because they fold in the red zone and on crucial downs, and are getting out schemed.

it's the emotion factor. but yeah, i think Spurrier almost wants a season where his offense shines despite the ST and D being flimsy for once.

if we can keep Coach Elliot around for a few more seasons then we'll be fine b/c he is the spark plug for Spurrier's offense, and the D will rebound. ST will always be hit or miss. this year could still be our year. but bottom line............

keep coach elliot no matter what going forward. the rest is bullshit.
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:42 AM   #15
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Default Re: Nothing Special about our Special Teams

Special Teams break down into 3 key areas:
1. Kicking
- FGs/PATs: Fry has acquitted himself pretty well, but (fortunately) he hasn't had to kick from too far or too high a pressure situation.
- Punting: This has been atrocious. I know it was difficult to determine who would handle punting duties in Fall practice. This has to be an area of focus. I feel like all of those damn Colquitts the Vols used to have single-handedly won them some games. (At the least put them in a position to win.)
- Kickoffs: generally serviceable, although every other KO feels like it strays right and could almost go out of bounds.
2. Returns
- Punt/KO Returns: No more Vic, too important at CB. No more Shon, for obvious reasons. Bruce does pretty well. Would love to see Pharaoh Cooper get a look. I know there was talk of Byrd returning either punts or KOs. Don't know if he's shifty enough, def. has the speed.
3. Kick Coverage
Needs Sidney Rhodes X 11. Coverage hasn't been bad, not great either.
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Old 09-16-2013, 06:14 AM   #16
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Default Re: Nothing Special about our Special Teams

Maybe they will use the extra week to get better players on coverage and have tryouts for return guys. We must have a couple of guys that can do the job. I haven't lost faith in Bruce returning punts, but maybe there is someone better that hasn't had the opportunity, yet. I would like to know if P. Cooper has even tried it in practice.
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Old 09-16-2013, 07:02 AM   #17
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Default Re: Nothing Special about our Special Teams

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Maybe they will use the extra week to get better players on coverage and have tryouts for return guys. We must have a couple of guys that can do the job. I haven't lost faith in Bruce returning punts, but maybe there is someone better that hasn't had the opportunity, yet. I would like to know if P. Cooper has even tried it in practice.
Don't know if I missed it, don't have time to read all the posts, this morning. Why hasn't anyone brought up Kane Whitehurst in this discussion? I saw Dickie Harris play my first few years at Carolina. (IMO)Except for Ace there has been none better than Harris in the Gamecock return game. Kane has a similar run style, speed profile and abilities. Get the return teams coached up and get Kane on the field. Bruce is too valuable in the offense, same with Hampton on defense. GOOO COCKS !!!
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Old 09-16-2013, 07:27 AM   #18
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Default Re: Nothing Special about our Special Teams

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Originally Posted by The Octopus View Post
people...

Spurrier does this all the time. even going back to the early 90's at Florida. He'll say "oh yeah. we need to get some starters in there on ST"

he's done it several times here too. google it. you'll find articles dating way back.. with him saying the same thing almost every single season.

he'll do the same thing this season. ST has never been our thing, Ace Sanders was the exception to the rule. period.

that being said, I do think Shon Carson is a mistake at returning. his heart is not in football. any interview I've ever seen with him Post-practice or whatever, he just seems so disinterested.

that being said, Joe Robinson needs to get these guys going.

our D has done alright, but everyone thinks they're bad because they fold in the red zone and on crucial downs, and are getting out schemed.

it's the emotion factor. but yeah, i think Spurrier almost wants a season where his offense shines despite the ST and D being flimsy for once.

if we can keep Coach Elliot around for a few more seasons then we'll be fine b/c he is the spark plug for Spurrier's offense, and the D will rebound. ST will always be hit or miss. this year could still be our year. but bottom line............

keep coach elliot no matter what going forward. the rest is bullshit.
Agree with all of this. Still, Coach Rob needs to get it done. If he needs ballers, he needs to scream for them.
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Old 09-16-2013, 08:04 AM   #19
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Default Re: Nothing Special about our Special Teams

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Don't know if I missed it, don't have time to read all the posts, this morning. Why hasn't anyone brought up Kane Whitehurst in this discussion? I saw Dickie Harris play my first few years at Carolina. (IMO)Except for Ace there has been none better than Harris in the Gamecock return game. Kane has a similar run style, speed profile and abilities. Get the return teams coached up and get Kane on the field. Bruce is too valuable in the offense, same with Hampton on defense. GOOO COCKS !!!
i've read some posters suggest we use Kane in other similar threads. What could it hurt? Maybe they have and he has trouble catching the ball...IDK, but that's what coaching is for, huh? find a player that can make a play returning punts.

I honestly don't know what is up with KO returns. All the 40 years I've been a fan we always had guys that could spit out a 35 yard return here and there...
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Old 09-16-2013, 08:20 AM   #20
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Default Re: Nothing Special about our Special Teams

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Originally Posted by jonesz2 View Post
Bama used to use Ingram and Richardson on kick returns. Put the ball in the best players hands
Richardson did when Ingram was there but I dont think Ingram was ever a regular kick return man
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