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Old 07-18-2014, 07:51 PM   #1
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Default NFL Evaluations of underclassmen limited

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11...-underclassmen
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Old 07-18-2014, 08:00 PM   #2
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Default Re: NFL Evaluations of underclassmen limited

I think this will be good for college football. Encourages only the upper elite guys to declare for the draft and everyone else to return.
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Old 07-18-2014, 08:22 PM   #3
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Default Re: NFL Evaluations of underclassmen limited

This is good. I didn't realize they told guys they were 1st rd, 2nd rd, or 3rd or later. All those guys heard 3rd or later and all say they said 3rd rd
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Old 07-18-2014, 10:25 PM   #4
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Default Re: NFL Evaluations of underclassmen limited

I'm glad to see this happening. Nick Saban said it well saying there are kids who left early, weren't drafted and not in school anymore.
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Old 07-18-2014, 10:35 PM   #5
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Default Re: NFL Evaluations of underclassmen limited

They need to allow anyone who doesn't sign an agent to go back to college, if they aren't drafted.
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Old 07-18-2014, 11:00 PM   #6
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Default Re: NFL Evaluations of underclassmen limited

THIS 100%

They need to allow anyone who doesn't sign an agent to go back to college, if they aren't drafted.
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Old 07-19-2014, 04:10 AM   #7
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Default Re: NFL Evaluations of underclassmen limited

At a glance this seems like it would be good for players who don't end up getting drafted. When you look at it a little deeper you can see how it's flawed—pretty significantly in fact.

By the NFL limiting the number of grades they'll give per school, and then with those grades limiting to amount of information given, they've reduced the amount of information available for kids to make their decisions upon.

A less informed person makes better decisions?!?! When's that ever worked?

It does open a door that'll quickly be filled with people offering their advice on where guys will be drafted. People, who work outside of the NFL offices, who are less qualified and are very likely to give worse advice than what's been issued in the past.

What really baffles me is why there are different standards and rules for baseball, basketball, and football. What doesn't surprise me is the NCAA has seen things fail in other sports, but continue to think they'll work.
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Old 07-19-2014, 08:30 AM   #8
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Default Re: NFL Evaluations of underclassmen limited

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Originally Posted by 11SWU10 View Post
THIS 100%

They need to allow anyone who doesn't sign an agent to go back to college, if they aren't drafted.
They have to sign an agent to declare for the draft, which is why they are no longer considered amateur
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Old 07-19-2014, 12:18 PM   #9
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Default Re: NFL Evaluations of underclassmen limited

I don't think it will change much.
With the rate of injuries and all these new studies coming out kids will still make the jump.

They want the money and the chance at the pros, an extra year in college could hurt that.
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Old 07-19-2014, 12:38 PM   #10
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Default Re: NFL Evaluations of underclassmen limited

Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryP View Post
At a glance this seems like it would be good for players who don't end up getting drafted. When you look at it a little deeper you can see how it's flawed—pretty significantly in fact.

By the NFL limiting the number of grades they'll give per school, and then with those grades limiting to amount of information given, they've reduced the amount of information available for kids to make their decisions upon.

A less informed person makes better decisions?!?! When's that ever worked?

It does open a door that'll quickly be filled with people offering their advice on where guys will be drafted. People, who work outside of the NFL offices, who are less qualified and are very likely to give worse advice than what's been issued in the past.

What really baffles me is why there are different standards and rules for baseball, basketball, and football. What doesn't surprise me is the NCAA has seen things fail in other sports, but continue to think they'll work.
I agree with the part about less information is bad, but I fully understand why the NFL is not like baseball. Football is too physically dangerous and they don't want young underdeveloped kids out of high school in their league going up against fully developed monsters who have been doing little else for 10 years but pumping iron and eating special diets and learning the best way to hit someone so hard their organs rattle in their body when they are hit, and the NFLPA hasn't really pressed the issue because they see the sound logic in that.
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Old 07-19-2014, 06:57 PM   #11
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Default Re: NFL Evaluations of underclassmen limited

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Originally Posted by ReadR00ster View Post
I agree with the part about less information is bad, but I fully understand why the NFL is not like baseball. Football is too physically dangerous and they don't want young underdeveloped kids out of high school in their league going up against fully developed monsters who have been doing little else for 10 years but pumping iron and eating special diets and learning the best way to hit someone so hard their organs rattle in their body when they are hit, and the NFLPA hasn't really pressed the issue because they see the sound logic in that.
That's not what I was wondering about.

In baseball they can get drafted and then return to play collegiate ball. As long as they don't sign with an agent they don't lose eligibility.

As a hypothetical, say a QB decides to test the waters as a Jr. and is drafted by a team that has a veteran that's a year or two away from retirement with one other on the roster. He may look at that situation as "at least I'll be carrying a clipboard" versus "I may not even make the team."

With the new agreements in place and so much talk of second contracts I'm curious to see how the numbers work out for players who left early and actually sign their second contract. So many out of the first two rounds this past draft, so many free agents that may not even make the team, and then such a small percentage that make it to that second contract...
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Old 07-19-2014, 07:16 PM   #12
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Default Re: NFL Evaluations of underclassmen limited

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Originally Posted by TerryP View Post
That's not what I was wondering about.

In baseball they can get drafted and then return to play collegiate ball. As long as they don't sign with an agent they don't lose eligibility.

As a hypothetical, say a QB decides to test the waters as a Jr. and is drafted by a team that has a veteran that's a year or two away from retirement with one other on the roster. He may look at that situation as "at least I'll be carrying a clipboard" versus "I may not even make the team."

With the new agreements in place and so much talk of second contracts I'm curious to see how the numbers work out for players who left early and actually sign their second contract. So many out of the first two rounds this past draft, so many free agents that may not even make the team, and then such a small percentage that make it to that second contract...
Yeah, I don't really understand how that works in the MLB draft. I don't think the players actually ENTER the draft, the MLB teams just draft players they want and wait on players to say they are going to sign or not. They are still playing in college when the draft happens. Maybe that only works if you have a 50 round draft to fill a minor league system, NFL is only 7 rounds and no minor leagues.
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Old 07-19-2014, 07:53 PM   #13
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Default Re: NFL Evaluations of underclassmen limited

Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryP View Post
That's not what I was wondering about.

In baseball they can get drafted and then return to play collegiate ball. As long as they don't sign with an agent they don't lose eligibility.

As a hypothetical, say a QB decides to test the waters as a Jr. and is drafted by a team that has a veteran that's a year or two away from retirement with one other on the roster. He may look at that situation as "at least I'll be carrying a clipboard" versus "I may not even make the team."

With the new agreements in place and so much talk of second contracts I'm curious to see how the numbers work out for players who left early and actually sign their second contract. So many out of the first two rounds this past draft, so many free agents that may not even make the team, and then such a small percentage that make it to that second contract...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReadR00ster View Post
Yeah, I don't really understand how that works in the MLB draft. I don't think the players actually ENTER the draft, the MLB teams just draft players they want and wait on players to say they are going to sign or not. They are still playing in college when the draft happens. Maybe that only works if you have a 50 round draft to fill a minor league system, NFL is only 7 rounds and no minor leagues.
I believe that NCAA rules state that if you, as an underclassman, have to declare yourself eligible and be placed on a prospective draft list that you lose your NCAA eligibility. Baseball players don't have to request to be in the draft, so that's why they keep their eligibility provided they don't sign with an agent.

Why basketball and football require the kid to request entry and baseball doesn't, I'm not really sure, but I would bet it might be something defined in the league's CBA.
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Old 07-19-2014, 08:14 PM   #14
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Default Re: NFL Evaluations of underclassmen limited

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They need to allow anyone who doesn't sign an agent to go back to college, if they aren't drafted.
agree....the only problem is that many of them leave school and start preparing for the combine.
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Old 07-20-2014, 01:34 AM   #15
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Default Re: NFL Evaluations of underclassmen limited

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They have to sign an agent to declare for the draft, which is why they are no longer considered amateur
No they don't have to sign an agent. My point is that an eligible draft kid could declare for the draft and do pro day, while staying enrolled in school, and if drafted where they'd like then go pro. If the NFL really wanted, they could workout something with the NCAA to give NFL advisors like agents to kids to help them during this time. These advisors would have to be NFL employees not agents though. Agents are causing the problems with the younger players. They are feeding them the lies. After a kid is drafted then the NFL advisor would be not allowed to negotiated, since that could be confining of interest.

Basketball has a system with you can declare and if you don't have an agent you can go back to school.
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:54 AM   #16
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Default Re: NFL Evaluations of underclassmen limited

You can declare for both the NBA and NFL and return to school as long as you haven't signed with an agent. I know that Colt Brennan declared for the and withdrew a couple of years ago. The problem with both systems, especially for football, is that the date to decide to withdraw from the draft is too early. Mid-January for football and mid-April for basketball. No opportunity to do workouts or combines before making the decision to stay or go. A lot of kids making some bad decisions without all the information.
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Old 07-20-2014, 01:11 PM   #17
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Default Re: NFL Evaluations of underclassmen limited

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No they don't have to sign an agent. My point is that an eligible draft kid could declare for the draft and do pro day, while staying enrolled in school, and if drafted where they'd like then go pro. If the NFL really wanted, they could workout something with the NCAA to give NFL advisors like agents to kids to help them during this time. These advisors would have to be NFL employees not agents though. Agents are causing the problems with the younger players. They are feeding them the lies. After a kid is drafted then the NFL advisor would be not allowed to negotiated, since that could be confining of interest.

Basketball has a system with you can declare and if you don't have an agent you can go back to school.
I personally think every school should have some kind of liaison (agent, former agent, former player, etc) that works for the school through the compliance office with the NFL.
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Old 07-20-2014, 03:57 PM   #18
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Default Re: NFL Evaluations of underclassmen limited

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I personally think every school should have some kind of liaison (agent, former agent, former player, etc) that works for the school through the compliance office with the NFL.
I think it's up to these kids to do their own research. Anyone can make a prediction and be wrong, even "experts." The school's focus should be focused on making information available, not provide some guy to give his "expert" opinion that can be just as unreliable as the next "expert."
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