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Old 02-03-2014, 12:25 AM   #81
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Default Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman Dead

Lol at the addicts deserve to die crowd. Same people probably call themselves christians or something hilariously hypocritical like that too. And if you dont understand the different levels of addiction and chemical dependency you shouldnt try discussing it, come off sounding very ignorant.
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Old 02-03-2014, 12:48 AM   #82
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Default Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman Dead

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Originally Posted by The Yancey View Post
LOL, that is just not so. Addictions can be either an acquired disease or one that is mostly genetic. It is also a progressive disease. An alcoholic who quit drinking 10 or 20 years ago would be in much worse shape if they started drinking again today due to this progression.

Much of the disease of addiction involves various brain chemicals. Dopamine is the most prominent but the enkaphalines and GABA are also involved. American Indians have a noted genetic difference that makes them highly addiction prone to alcohol. It is not much different from having genes that make a person likely to become diabetic. BTW, the ongoing disease process of addiction actually changes brain function further.

FWIW, I started off my professional career in addictions before segueing into mental health and psychotherapy. I have seen this disease up close and personal.
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Old 02-03-2014, 01:22 AM   #83
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Default Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman Dead

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Originally Posted by Carolina4Life View Post
Addiction is a disease, do you think people with cancer want cancer?
A human failing, certainly........But it is not a disease in the traditional sense.



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Old 02-03-2014, 01:32 AM   #84
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Default Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman Dead

It's a disease. Ask your doctor, he'll tell you the same thing I have been saying. It's not a opinion it's a fact.
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Old 02-03-2014, 01:33 AM   #85
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Default Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman Dead

All this could definitely go in another thread.
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Old 02-03-2014, 01:48 AM   #86
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Default Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman Dead

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Originally Posted by Gamecock_Aholic View Post
Well, if you want to do heroine, you pretty much deserve it.
At some point in the life of an addict, it's not about wanting to get high. The man did not "deserve " to die.
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Old 02-03-2014, 01:59 AM   #87
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Default Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman Dead

Yeah so...sorry the dude died, sympathy is really hard for me to give the guy, and I guess the only reason I am not completely denying sympathy is I don't know what wa going on in his life, but I do know he is a big shot actor, making some money, and doing drugs like this is stupid.
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Old 02-03-2014, 02:10 AM   #88
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Default Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman Dead

Carolina4Life,



As a disease does addiction have the ability to make people do things involuntarily, like shoot up?


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Old 02-03-2014, 02:11 AM   #89
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Default Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman Dead

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Widespread enthusiasm for the disease model, however, has led to willingness to overlook the facts. Addiction has very little in common with diseases. It is a group of behaviors, not an illness on its own. It cannot be explained by any disease process. Perhaps worst of all, calling addiction a "disease" interferes with exploring or accepting new understandings of the nature of addiction.

This becomes clear if you compare addiction with true diseases. In addiction there is no infectious agent (as in tuberculosis), no pathological biological process (as in diabetes), and no biologically degenerative condition (as in Alzheimer's disease). The only "disease-like" aspect of addiction is that if people do not deal with it, their lives tend to get worse. That's true of lots of things in life that are not diseases; it doesn't tell us anything about the nature of the problem. (It's worthwhile to remember here that the current version of the disease concept, the "chronic brain disease" neurobiological idea, applies to rats but has been repeatedly shown to be inapplicable to humans. Please see earlier posts in this blog or my book, Breaking Addiction, for a full discussion of the fallacy of this neurobiological disease model for addiction.)

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Old 02-03-2014, 02:33 AM   #90
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Default Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman Dead

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Yeah a therapist always tells the truth, they tell you its a disease so you don't feel bad about yourself because you make bad choices, no one just wakes up and thinks I am going to try a narcotic today, you decided that on your own. Because if that was the case someone will wake up tomorrow and decide you know what I am going to turn the stove on high and put my hand on it. Overdoses is Darwinism at it's finest.
I am an addict with over 5 years sobriety and I am a Licensed Chemical Dependency Counselor. I can tell you by experience that I had lost the power to choose if I used or drank. I beleive in the disease concept of addiction, but respect those who do not. What I can't respect is people who make comments like your Darwin one or that someone deserves to die. I know too many good people who couldn't stop and have lost their life.
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Old 02-03-2014, 02:46 AM   #91
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Default Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman Dead

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I am an addict with over 5 years sobriety and I am a Licensed Chemical Dependency Counselor. I can tell you by experience that I had lost the power to choose if I used or drank. I beleive in the disease concept of addiction, but respect those who do not. What I can't respect is people who make comments like your Darwin one or that someone deserves to die. I know too many good people who couldn't stop and have lost their life.


I do not deny that there are chemical/biological considerations to be made to a person being an addict, but I cannot bring myself to call it disease....To me it is a human failing, that in some cases is exacerbated by the biological make-up of certain individuals.......To me calling it a disease is kind of disrespectful to people like my mother who has an auto-immune disease (scleroderma.) Addicts have some degree of hope for detaching themselves emotionally and biologically from their dependency....Some succeed, some don't. My mother on the other hand, very little works to relieve her suffering, and she has no current hope of a cure.


As it relates to this thread, it is one thing to think P.S. Hoffman made a bad choice, and no doubt he paid for it with his life. But to make a "us v.s. them" fight out of a man's death is ridiculous.




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Old 02-03-2014, 03:05 AM   #92
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Default Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman Dead

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Originally Posted by The Yancey View Post
LOL, that is just not so. Addictions can be either an acquired disease or one that is mostly genetic. It is also a progressive disease. An alcoholic who quit drinking 10 or 20 years ago would be in much worse shape if they started drinking again today due to this progression.

Much of the disease of addiction involves various brain chemicals. Dopamine is the most prominent but the enkaphalines and GABA are also involved. American Indians have a noted genetic difference that makes them highly addiction prone to alcohol. It is not much different from having genes that make a person likely to become diabetic. BTW, the ongoing disease process of addiction actually changes brain function further.

FWIW, I started off my professional career in addictions before segueing into mental health and psychotherapy. I have seen this disease up close and personal.
So in your professional opinion, how many drug addicts didn't start smoking pot......a general percentage answer would be great. I have to assume that anyone that checks into a rehap center, either voluntarily or not, goes through a question and answer session trying to learn the cause of their addiction.

Next question, is it more likely than not that a state like Colorado that legilizes pot will have more drug addicts years later than a state that choses not to legalize pot. Thanks.

I don't think it's fair for any of us to judge someone that has any kind of addiction because there is no way we could ever know what circumstances caused them to become addicted in the first place. The best we can do is try to support them in their effort to get rid of their addiction.
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Old 02-03-2014, 06:23 AM   #93
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Default Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman Dead

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I snorted it once and said to my buddies I did it with, "I will never do this again because if I do I'll get addicted to it." It was the most incredible feeling I've ever experienced.
My exact thoughts with coca in after 1 time
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Old 02-03-2014, 09:37 AM   #94
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Default Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman Dead

Not getting into the addiction debate, I will just truly miss PSH and his work. He was one of the most talented actors of our time IMO. Watch Capote and The Talented Mr. Ripley if you haven't yet. A sad end to a great talent.
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Old 02-03-2014, 10:37 AM   #95
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Default Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman Dead

IMHO...PSH was probably among the top five to ever do it. In fact, when he was on I can't think of anyone better.

God Bless him and his family.
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Old 02-03-2014, 11:20 AM   #96
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Default Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman Dead

Heroin is addictive...I don' think anyone is disputing that. But only a weak individual will let it control their lives and kill them. This guy had all the money in the world and could have gone to the best treatment facilities but he choose not to.

You know why I will never try heroin or other drugs? One reason is because of guys like this and all the other actors and actresses before him that have OD'ed.

Prayers sent to his family, especially his children who have been robbed of the chance to grow up with their dad in the lives.
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Old 02-03-2014, 11:33 AM   #97
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Default Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman Dead

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Not getting into the addiction debate, I will just truly miss PSH and his work. He was one of the most talented actors of our time IMO. Watch Capote and The Talented Mr. Ripley if you haven't yet. A sad end to a great talent.
Loved him in The Talented Mr. Ripley. Really is a shame to see another excellent actor's life cut short.
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Old 02-03-2014, 11:36 AM   #98
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Default Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman Dead

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So in your professional opinion, how many drug addicts didn't start smoking pot......a general percentage answer would be great. I have to assume that anyone that checks into a rehap center, either voluntarily or not, goes through a question and answer session trying to learn the cause of their addiction.

Next question, is it more likely than not that a state like Colorado that legilizes pot will have more drug addicts years later than a state that choses not to legalize pot. Thanks.

I don't think it's fair for any of us to judge someone that has any kind of addiction because there is no way we could ever know what circumstances caused them to become addicted in the first place. The best we can do is try to support them in their effort to get rid of their addiction.


I'll try to give you some answers.

A Q&A session to learn an addiction's cause isn't something normally significant. First off would be detox, which if not medically managed appropriately can lead to treatment failure or even death in some cases. Part of the addiction process focusses the addict's brain in ways to continually seek the needed substance. You will not be able to do battle with an addict brain on an intellectual plane. Treatment is more focused on the levels of emotions. Did you know that chemically alcohol is simply ether with a water molecule removed? When you remove that anesthesia from a person who has been under its effects for a period of years all of the denied and repressed feelings begin to surface. There is a heightened risk of suicide at this point. Therefore the second goal is to work through that mess and provide some emotional grounding. Lastly you help the addict look at internal and external triggers that work like Pavlov's bell in bringing up a desire for the substance. Peer support is vital during this process.

I would have to disagree that pot legalization would lead to addiction to other substances. We did not have great drug problems in this country when pot was legal. In the early 1900s a movement was made to remove it from the shelves of pharmacies. There was an emerging war going on between competing economic interests and schools of medical thought. Politicians latched on to it as a way to frighten uneducated voters and secure their votes. A large part was racially motivated as well. It became illegal in most of the country in the 1920s. There was, however, no truth to "Refer Madness." What we do know with absolute certainty is that making pot illegal has fueled its use. Under the putative guise of helping people we have thrown them in jail, sometimes for life without parole for consuming this plant. Under this approach marijuana today is cheaper, stronger, and more widely available than at any time when it was legal. Nor is there any evidence of some sort of chemical progression that would lead a pot user to need heroin, crack, or any other drug of a different class. Most heroin addicts, virtually all in fact, in their early lives consumed the milk of cows! Should we ban this substance? Of course not. I will give you that some people who have an addictive disease will seek out more than one substance. Alcohol is probably the first for many. Most never go from that to heroin. Some do. In cultures where pot would be illegal you might be buying it from sources selling other drugs and this could increase the opportunity for people to try them. Legalization actually removes that angle. Therefore legalization could actually reduce future addictions. It will certainly reduce the cost of arresting and imprisoning them and the tax money generated from its sale can be used for many good purposes from hard drug treatment to education to building parks, schools, and museums.

Lastly, you do not simply get over an addiction. The disease of addiction continues to grow even after the person has stopped using the substance. Drop into any open meeting of AA or NA and listen to their stories. I promise that you will learn much about this. Now after a time the drug of choice no longer seems to work. Alcoholics can end up not being able to drink themselves drunk. It is similar to the natural progression of some schizophrenias where after 20-30 years of suffering the hallucinations may wither away but the patient is left as something of an affectless shell. On a personal note I must be lucky enough not to have this addictive disease. In the 60s I tried just about every drug on the market including injecting heroin. In the 80s I was treated with demoral and other drugs for several months post thoracic surgery. Two years ago I was treated for 4 months with pure oxycodone for shingles pain. In neither case did I become addicted. In both cases my doctors let me choose my own doses. I actually weaned myself off the narcotics ahead of their schedule. My one addiction was to nicotine. In retrospect I can see how it ruled my life, how I continued a habit that was harming my health and my pocketbook. After a quarter century of being a heavy smoker and having tried to quit many, many times I finally gave them up almost 21 years ago. Yet I know that if I bummed one from someone today I would be buying a pack by week's end and cartons after that. Like any addiction it would be worse than when I quit. The fact of my being addicted to cigarettes for that long changed my brain chemistry permanently.
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Old 02-03-2014, 12:00 PM   #99
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Default Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman Dead

I'm addicted to internet arguments. Is that a disease?
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Old 02-03-2014, 12:54 PM   #100
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Default Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman Dead

I might as well face it.













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